I'm trying to find a way to best emulate a homebrew class (Theurge) with two levels of Wizard (Bladesinger). I'm willing to go through a bit of work setting this up in dndbeyond, but I'd prefer to minimize work when leveling up or using a Theurge class feature.
Theurge Basics
I have a copy of the pdf linked above on my Google drive, where I placed it after purchase. Using fair use, I'm happy to grant access to others if they are using it only for my benefit. I'm trying to implement a specific subclass of the theurge and can ignore its other subclasses.
Theurge is a cross between wizard and cleric using INT for spellcasting and a modified form of spellbook.
The theurge is similar to wizard in many ways:
They have access to cleric and wizard spells, but slightly limited.
They have a kind of spellbook (a "libram") with slightly different rules than wizards for adding and removing spells (no scribing, but there are ways to swap spells);
If X is the current Theurge level, their libram can hold 3*X+3 spells. They learn six spells at level 1, and three per level thereafter. Each time they learn spells, 1/3 of them must be cleric spells, 1/3 wizard, and 1/3 from either class.
If X is the current Theurge level, they prepare X+INT spells for the day, just like wizards. And like wizards, they can't prepare spells they haven't learned.
Like wizards they can cast unprepared spells from their libram as rituals.
INT is the spellcasting stat;
They gain and use spell slots in the same way;
They gain d6+CON hit points per level, like sorcs and wizards.
Comments in plain text, and questions to answer in bold.
I'd just implement this as a Wizard subclass, except that I also want to multiclass with two levels of Wizard (Bladesinger). Since I can't take Wizard twice...
Currently I've made the theurge a cleric subclass using INT, and I'm hand-coding all the spells. It's pretty clunky and changing out spells is hard and error-prone.
From reading IAmSposta's other posts, it sounds like many aspects of casting spells from a class feature is burned into DDB's implementation of the 13 classes and various classes. Is having Theurge be a Wizard subclass the only way to have a spellbook approach to learning and preparing spells?
From a few implementations sketched out below, which sounds like the easiest to level up and swap spells in and out during play?
Implementation: Theurge as Cleric subclass, standard Wizard class.
It was easy to add INT as a spellcasting stat. When I first multiclassed, I had to bump my WIS temporarily and then drop it back down, but that was a one-time thing.
I've implemented a "Libram" subclass feature where I list all the spells in the Libram. Those show up in my spell list marked as "Libram". I also use the cleric ability to prepare daily spells. Then I double check my "Spells" tab, and making sure that all my prepared "Cleric" spells have a duplicate "Libram" spell. During live gaves, I only cast "Cleric" spells from spell slots, but can cast "Libram" spells ritually.
Cleric is a d8+CON class. So I have to remember after each long rest to go in and lower my MAX HP. I haven't found a way to permanently degrade my HP so this is automatic.
All the cleric spells are available for daily prep. I suspect I can't shut this off. (Is there a way?)
There's no easy way to track the spells the Theurge knows but aren't prepared.
Implementation: Theurge as a Sorc subclass, standard Wizard class.
This solves the HP problem.
Use the libram trick as above (which is a pain) to track spells in the Libram.
Hard to screen out Sorcerer-only spells. Fortunately, most sorc spells are also wizard spells.
Implementation: Theurge as a Wizard subclass, and deal with the two levels of wizard in a different way.
I can base the Theurge off Bladesinger, but hopefully can change the level at which Bladesinging comes online.
When leveling up, I delay ASI until the appropriate Theurge level.
Can't distinguishe between Wizard spells in the spellback and Theurge spells in the Libram, and there are things which can be done with the Theurge spells but not the Wizard spells.
Implementation: Theurge as a Wizard subclass, and Bladesinger as a Sorc subclass.
Theurge implementation is fairly straightforward, and manipulation of the spellbook like can be done from the character sheet.
Once I have Wizard 2, I expect the known and prepared wizard spells to be fairly stable.
Wizard-as-sorc is clunkier, but once I'm Wizard 2, it won't be changing very much. I still need something like the Libram to capture known-but-not-prepared wizard spells, and when I add stuff, I'll need to remember to tick the cast-as-ritual or always-prepared box. (Will this work? If not, Bladesinger-as-Bard has the HP issue, but would handle ritual casting.)
Sounds easiest to make it a Wizard subclass and add the Bladesinger features to it. Since it is HB already, I don't know why you feel the need to "stick" to the published version of the subclass.
Sounds easiest to make it a Wizard subclass and add the Bladesinger features to it. Since it is HB already, I don't know why you feel the need to "stick" to the published version of the subclass.
Thanks for your response.
I'd prefer to stick with the class as approved by my DM.
The multiclass benefits from the two different kinds of spellbooks.
The Theurge can do things with their spellbook -- capturing other people's spells -- but it cannot be scribed into nor can it grow beyond its fixed size (by level). The class might already be OP by a little, and the multiclass Theurge/Wizard moreso, but would become crazy OP if combined with Bladesinger, by combining the Wizard's near-infinite spellbook with Therurge's ability to capture spellss.
Both Theruge and Wizard can prepare (class level)+INT spells daily. Multiclassing gives +INT more spells prepared.
The Wizard can scribe ritual spells up to their heart's content ... and their level. The Theurge's has 3*(class level) total spells in their libram so they only have limited room for ritual spells before they cut into the spells I would want to prepare.
I'd prefer to stick with the class as approved by my DM.
and this statement:
but would become crazy OP if combined with Bladesinger
Are directly contradictory. Either your DM should approve of your crazy OP build and allow you to modify the Theurge class to incorporate the Bladesinger features you want, or your DM doesn't approve of your crazy OP build in which case you should not create it.
Also note that the Wizard scribing spells & preparing spells is based on their Wizard level, and it is only their Wizard spells.
So a Level-6 Theurge with 2 levels of Bladesinger could prepare INT+6 Theurge spells up to 3rd level spells Theurge spells, and INT+2 Wizard spells up to 1st level Wizard spells. This also holds for scribing spells - i.e. 2-levels of Bladesinger only allows you to scribe 1st level Wizard spells into your spellbook even if you are a 6-level Theurge as well.
I'm trying to find a way to best emulate a homebrew class (Theurge) with two levels of Wizard (Bladesinger). I'm willing to go through a bit of work setting this up in dndbeyond, but I'd prefer to minimize work when leveling up or using a Theurge class feature.
Theurge Basics
Comments in plain text, and questions to answer in bold.
Implementation: Theurge as Cleric subclass, standard Wizard class.
Implementation: Theurge as a Sorc subclass, standard Wizard class.
Implementation: Theurge as a Wizard subclass, and deal with the two levels of wizard in a different way.
Implementation: Theurge as a Wizard subclass, and Bladesinger as a Sorc subclass.
Thoughts?
(Edits in italics.)
BTW, thanks to IAmSposta for the numerous guides around this topic.
Sounds easiest to make it a Wizard subclass and add the Bladesinger features to it. Since it is HB already, I don't know why you feel the need to "stick" to the published version of the subclass.
Thanks for your response.
This statement:
and this statement:
Are directly contradictory. Either your DM should approve of your crazy OP build and allow you to modify the Theurge class to incorporate the Bladesinger features you want, or your DM doesn't approve of your crazy OP build in which case you should not create it.
Also note that the Wizard scribing spells & preparing spells is based on their Wizard level, and it is only their Wizard spells.
So a Level-6 Theurge with 2 levels of Bladesinger could prepare INT+6 Theurge spells up to 3rd level spells Theurge spells, and INT+2 Wizard spells up to 1st level Wizard spells. This also holds for scribing spells - i.e. 2-levels of Bladesinger only allows you to scribe 1st level Wizard spells into your spellbook even if you are a 6-level Theurge as well.