I am obsessed with being able to have a character that can use a rapier and parrying dagger. RAW don't allow it, limiting two-weapon fighting, dual wielding, and nick to light weapons. Under those guidelines, you can use a light weapon as a primary weapon, in this obsession, your dagger, and then the rapier as your off-hand weapon, but that seems absurd and not at all true to the historical basis of the style.
As many have suggested, I should just homebrew something. I have.
Submitted for your approval, derision, and, otherwise, constructive critique: the Rapier and Parrying Dagger.
You take it as one two-handed weapon. You cannot use a shield or perform the somatic components of spells when wielding it.
It's properties: Finesse, versatile, and two-handed.
It is a vex weapon because as soon as I entered rapier that's what the homebrew app awarded it even though I specifically tried to make it a graze weapon -- it just made more thematic sense to me.
Damage: 1d10 + ability modifier (STR or DEX) -- again, the homebrew app gave it the 1d8 damage option if used one-handed, which is absurd since it is two weapons and can only be wielded using two hands, but such is life.
Damage type: piercing
Weight: 3 lbs (rapier + dagger, weight)
Cost: 27 gp (rapier + dagger cost)
Reach: 5 ft
Requires proficiency with rapier and dagger.
The one limitation that I wanted to put on it that the app doesn't allow is that you can only be wearing light armor if any armor at all when using it. I don't see any heavy or medium armor types really wanting to use such a weapon, any way, but still, it seemed thematically appropriate.
I think it captures the idea that through training and practice, the user has perfected the use of the rapier and parrying dagger together so that they act as one weapon. Whether the damage done is due to the rapier or dagger or a combination of both is immaterial and left for the DM and player to describe as the dice rolls dictate.
Also, it can be used by a warlock as their pact weapon.
Before I release it onto the community, what do y'all think? Any feedback or adjustments you think needed?
Game On, Siblings! Jack
PS Of course, there are feats that are coming down the pike.
The reason it gave 1d8 damage as an option is because the versatile property lets you wield it in either one or two hands, doing different damage for each. Combining that with the two handed property is contradictory. Also, why particularly would you limit this to light armor? Sure they're lighter type weapons, but a paladin in full plate can poke people with a dagger just fine.
ps: you should probably add this:
Game On, Siblings! Jack
to your signature so you don't have to write it every time. (go to account, then click on profile)
I am obsessed with being able to have a character that can use a rapier and parrying dagger. RAW don't allow it, limiting two-weapon fighting, dual wielding, and nick to light weapons. Under those guidelines, you can use a light weapon as a primary weapon, in this obsession, your dagger, and then the rapier as your off-hand weapon, but that seems absurd and not at all true to the historical basis of the style.
False, you can create a rapier + parrying dagger build as follows:
Dual Wielder lets you make 2 attacks with your primary weapon + one attack with the dagger if you have Extra Attack, or one dagger + one rapier attack if you don't. It's just that one of those rapier attacks is with your BA.
Defensive Duelist gives you the Parry reaction.
As for your HB "weapon", you need to get rid of the "Versatile" property, Versatile and Two-Handed are contradictory a weapon must either be one-handed+Versatile or Two-Handed. There is also no real benefit to using your HB weapon over the build I described above.
Thank you for your informative response, but I think we must be reading two different versions of the Dual Wielder feat. For convenience, I've copied the text of the Dual Wielder feat from the 2024 PHB below. It very clearly states that your first attack,, which I would call your primary weapon, has to have the light property. Consulting the weapon chart in the Equipment chapter of the PHB informs that the rapier only has the finesse property. Absent an explicit listing of the light property as both shortsword and scimitar have along with finesse, the rapier cannot be considered a light weapon. Consequently, I believe it can only be used in the bonus action feature described in the feat without benefit of modifier to damage.
While such a build is possible and achieves two attacks from a character equipped with a rapier and dagger, it seems to miss the spirit, if you will, of the Renaissance-era practice of fighting with a rapier and parrying dagger. As I stated in the original post, that combination is not really acceptable to me.
Yes, I agree that versatile and two-handed may be contradictory, it still seems necessary in the weapon concept since it is not possible to wield it one-handed, but it is still possible to wield it using either your strength or dexterity modifier. Since it is a homebrew item, and with your DM's permission, such bending of the rules to allow for it since it doesn't confer any other benefit than using strength or dexterity and does limit the character from using a shield or making the somatic components of a spell when using the weapon.
Understanding that the versatile and two-handed properties are mutually exclusive is a valuable addition to my understanding of the rules, and one that I am grateful for.
I believe that using the two weapons as if they are one simulates the actual use of the rapier and parrying dagger as used during its day. Using the Dual Wielder combination allows a possible 1d4 + MOD + 1d8 of damage for a range of 2 + MOD to 12 + MOD damage, using the combined weapon yielding a 1d10 + MOD damage is a tolerable alternative, especially when compared to the damage that most versatile weapons do when wielded two-handed. It needn't matter whether the damage was provided by the dagger, rapier, or combination of the two. That detail can be left to the descriptive abilities of the player and DM, also as stated in the original post.
Game On, Sibling! Jack
Dual Wielder
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Strength or Dexterity 13+)
You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I hadn't considered the full ramifications of the versatile option, thank you for providing it.
Also, appreciated is the signature hint, but I like writing it because it reminds me that we are human beings communicating with each other in a common pursuit. A detail that I find too many miss when communicating through all the varieties of social media.
My desire is to recreate the Renaissance-era fighting style of wielding a rapier and parrying dagger. Dexterity and dagger are paramount to the defense of the wielder which cannot be achieved by a character wearing heavy armor. It is as simple as that. I am trying to scratch an itch that DnD has made very difficult to do.
There is a logic to combining the versatile property with the two-handed property -- I will note that the programming does not make the mutually exclusive when it easily could have -- because by its very nature using two weapons precludes using anything else in your hands. However, versatile seems necessary to allow for your dexterity modifier to be used, which is historically necessary for such a fighting style to be enacted in the DnD world.
To my mind and somewhat thorough researching of the issue, this seems a good compromise between the RAW, RAI, and what would like to achieve without being overpowered. I will note that I could have given it 1d12 damage since that is the combination of 1d8 (rapier) and 1d4 (dagger), but chose instead to align with the mode of the versatile weapon damages. Also, I resisted the temptation to add to AC because of the use of the parrying dagger. Choosing instead to create a series of feats that can be used in combination with the weapon.
Perhaps I'm wrong or foolish or misinformed, but creating the effect of rapier and parrying dagger is a pursuit that amuses me, keeps me occupied (and, consequently, out of trouble), and has given me no end of pleasure and consternation.
Thank you again for your feedback. It is much appreciated.
Versatile is completely unrelated to the ability modifier you use:
Versatile
A Versatile weapon can be used with one or two hands. A damage value in parentheses appears with the property. The weapon deals that damage when used with two hands to make a melee attack.
You're thinking of the finesse property:
Finesse
When making an attack with a Finesse weapon, use your choice of your Strength or Dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls. You must use the same modifier for both rolls.
As for programming them to be mutually exclusive, that might be trivial to implement in theory, if I understand it correctly the homebrew creator uses a framework that prevents that.
Also, a framework that doesn't allow an if, then, else statement seems awfully limited and when you're trying to create things that have mutually exclusive properties, seems, well, let's just say, a major oversight. I understand that in the world of software design, there are fundamental choices with unexpected consequences that can be difficult to work around, but that's a problem for a completely different discussion on a completely different forum.
You can already do this at level 4 by using the dual wielder feat or level 5 by using extra attack, if you get it from a class. Or you can use both together.
I would simply create a new weapon for a parrying dagger that has sap mastery, which is defensive.
Thank you for your advice. I appreciate the tip about a parrying dagger with the sap mastery. When I tried to create this weapon, I tried to give it the graze mastery, but it remains vex. I suspect any dagger created will have the nick property. Aside from that, what properties would you give a parrying dagger? A +1 AC? Making a rapier a light weapon? I'm trying to imagine the properties it would have that allow it to be used along side the rapier.
However, as I stated in the OP, the way dual wielder is written means that the dagger has to be used as the primary weapon due to its light property. While it can be done, I don't like it for the reasons stated in the original post. My apologies if I didn't make that clear in the OP since several commenters have mentioned it.
Thank you for your advice. I appreciate the tip about a parrying dagger with the sap mastery. When I tried to create this weapon, I tried to give it the graze mastery, but it remains vex. I suspect any dagger created will have the nick property. Aside from that, what properties would you give a parrying dagger? A +1 AC? Making a rapier a light weapon? I'm trying to imagine the properties it would have that allow it to be used along side the rapier.
However, as I stated in the OP, the way dual wielder is written means that the dagger has to be used as the primary weapon due to its light property. While it can be done, I don't like it for the reasons stated in the original post. My apologies if I didn't make that clear in the OP since several commenters have mentioned it.
Game On, Sibling! Jack
The only mechanical requirement is for the dagger to be used first, and that doesn't make it your primary weapon.
I really appreciate the response, but this isn't an argument. It is an opinion based on an obsession.
That said, I think since the dagger is what causes the effect to occur and it gets modifiers to both attack and damage, that makes it the primary weapon. Opinions and interpretations differ.
Thank you for your advice. I appreciate the tip about a parrying dagger with the sap mastery. When I tried to create this weapon, I tried to give it the graze mastery, but it remains vex. I suspect any dagger created will have the nick property. Aside from that, what properties would you give a parrying dagger? A +1 AC? Making a rapier a light weapon? I'm trying to imagine the properties it would have that allow it to be used along side the rapier.
However, as I stated in the OP, the way dual wielder is written means that the dagger has to be used as the primary weapon due to its light property. While it can be done, I don't like it for the reasons stated in the original post. My apologies if I didn't make that clear in the OP since several commenters have mentioned it.
Game On, Sibling! Jack
The best way to think of this is without the concept of primary and secondary weapon since that terminology doesn't not get used in 5e.
So for example, a 5th level fighter/barbarian/paladin etc gets 2 attacks with their attack action. They could make both of those attacks with one weapon, or can hold two weapons and make one attack with each. This second option is not optimal for damage but can provide tactical options using two different weapon masteries. So you could attack with a rapier as the first attack (vex) and a dagger with the second attack, although the extra bonus or free attack from light/nick would be wasted unless you drew another weapon. My parrying dagger suggestion above replaces the nick property with sap to make this work a little better.
Now add in the dual wielder feat. It looks something like
Action Action
Attack 1 - rapier (vex)
Attack 2 - parrying dagger (sap) (this being light triggers the extra bonus attack)
Bonus extra attack from dual wielder
Attack 3 - rapier (vex) (no ability modifier unless you have two-weapon fighting style)
So a total of 3 attacks at level 5. The only rule change needed is the creation of a sap rather than nick dagger. Worth saying that this combo does not do quite as much damage as using a nick weapon but is more defensive.
I really appreciate you trying to explain how I could achieve what I want using RAW. Once you get your second attack -- if the class you''re playing gets two attacks -- you can actually use the rapier and dagger. Yes, but only if you have the class that has two attacks. You still only get ONE attack action, which your class allows you to attack twice. Two-Weapon Fighting, the Dual Wielder feat, and Two-Weapon Fighting Style allows you to make an attack as a BONUS ACTION after making an attack with a LIGHT weapon. So, if you attack with a LIGHT weapon, you can
Take a BONUS ACTION to make an attack with a second weapon with the LIGHT property (Two-Weapon Fighting), but not add your modifier to damage.
Take a BONUS ACTION to make an attack with a second weapon with a weapon that does not have the Two-Handed property (Dual Weilder), but not add your modifier to damage.
Take a BONUS ACTION to make an attack with a second weapon (either with the LIGHT property through Two-Weapon Fighting or without the Two-Handed property through Dual Wielding) and add your modifier to damage (Two-Weapon Fighting Style).
So, with two attacks you on your Attack Action, you can take a Bonus Action attack as long as one of your weapons has the LIGHT property, which is NOT the rapier.
Both Two-Weapon Fighting and Dual Wielder make it very clear that your Bonus Action attack occurs later on the same turn after taking the Attack action with a LIGHT weapon. The weapon with the LIGHT property has to be used first, making it the prime weapon or primary weapon because it occurs first in the sequence.
I think all of that is clear in RAW and RAI.
SAP simply causes a creature hit by a SAP weapon to attack with DISADVANTAGE on its next attack. But, as I've stated, I couldn't make this weapon a Nick weapon even though I selected the weapon mastery, nick modification for it, so I don't think you can homebrew a SAP dagger, but maybe, I guess.
I do appreciate your efforts to help me here, but I feel like I've been through this a million times. This is how the RAW and RAI work. I'm happy with my homebrew work around. I honestly don't understand why this weapon and concept triggers so many people, but it seems to. Everyone wants to explain to me why I'm wrong, but since it is just opinion occurring in the theater of our minds, it is difficult to see how I'm wrong. If you cannot accept my reasoning as listed above, then accept my obsession as explained in the OP: I want it to mimic the Renaissance-style of fighting with a rapier and parrying dagger. I think it is only achieved through creating a weapon like this and with the addition of specific feats.
Game On, Sibling! Jack
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don't add your ability modifier to the extra attack's damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don't add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren’t already adding it to the damage.
Sap
If you hit a creature with this weapon, that creature has Disadvantage on its next attack roll before the start of your next turn.
Dual Wielder
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Strength or Dexterity 13+)
You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
I had always thought of the parrying dagger as a form of Shield, because you are not using the dagger as a means of attack but rather as a means of deflecting a melee attack. I have such a weapon and it has a large quillon (cross guard) that is used to catch an opponent's melee weapon.
If you do it right, you catch the opponent's sword, axe, club, mace and you twist the weapon aside just enough so that you force the opponent just enough off balance so that the weapon in your main hand has an enhanced chance to hit your opponent.
You could say that a parrying dagger imposes a Dexterity check on the opponent: relatively easy for a rogue but possibly not so easy for a cleric or fighter.
I had always thought of the parrying dagger as a form of Shield, because you are not using the dagger as a means of attack but rather as a means of deflecting a melee attack. I have such a weapon and it has a large quillon (cross guard) that is used to catch an opponent's melee weapon.
If you do it right, you catch the opponent's sword, axe, club, mace and you twist the weapon aside just enough so that you force the opponent just enough off balance so that the weapon in your main hand has an enhanced chance to hit your opponent.
You could say that a parrying dagger imposes a Dexterity check on the opponent: relatively easy for a rogue but possibly not so easy for a cleric or fighter.
I think the simple way to represent a parrying dagger is by giving it 'sap' rather than 'nick'. If you ignore the name, sap is a generic defensive mastery. However I doubt it would be popular as everybody just seems to want more attacks by using nick. I would consider it alongside a shortsword or even rapier (with a feat) - vex and sap together.
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Howdy y'all!
I am obsessed with being able to have a character that can use a rapier and parrying dagger. RAW don't allow it, limiting two-weapon fighting, dual wielding, and nick to light weapons. Under those guidelines, you can use a light weapon as a primary weapon, in this obsession, your dagger, and then the rapier as your off-hand weapon, but that seems absurd and not at all true to the historical basis of the style.
As many have suggested, I should just homebrew something. I have.
Submitted for your approval, derision, and, otherwise, constructive critique: the Rapier and Parrying Dagger.
You take it as one two-handed weapon. You cannot use a shield or perform the somatic components of spells when wielding it.
It's properties: Finesse, versatile, and two-handed.
It is a vex weapon because as soon as I entered rapier that's what the homebrew app awarded it even though I specifically tried to make it a graze weapon -- it just made more thematic sense to me.
Damage: 1d10 + ability modifier (STR or DEX) -- again, the homebrew app gave it the 1d8 damage option if used one-handed, which is absurd since it is two weapons and can only be wielded using two hands, but such is life.
Damage type: piercing
Weight: 3 lbs (rapier + dagger, weight)
Cost: 27 gp (rapier + dagger cost)
Reach: 5 ft
Requires proficiency with rapier and dagger.
The one limitation that I wanted to put on it that the app doesn't allow is that you can only be wearing light armor if any armor at all when using it. I don't see any heavy or medium armor types really wanting to use such a weapon, any way, but still, it seemed thematically appropriate.
I think it captures the idea that through training and practice, the user has perfected the use of the rapier and parrying dagger together so that they act as one weapon. Whether the damage done is due to the rapier or dagger or a combination of both is immaterial and left for the DM and player to describe as the dice rolls dictate.
Also, it can be used by a warlock as their pact weapon.
Before I release it onto the community, what do y'all think? Any feedback or adjustments you think needed?
Game On, Siblings!
Jack
PS Of course, there are feats that are coming down the pike.
The reason it gave 1d8 damage as an option is because the versatile property lets you wield it in either one or two hands, doing different damage for each. Combining that with the two handed property is contradictory. Also, why particularly would you limit this to light armor? Sure they're lighter type weapons, but a paladin in full plate can poke people with a dagger just fine.
ps: you should probably add this:
to your signature so you don't have to write it every time. (go to account, then click on profile)
False, you can create a rapier + parrying dagger build as follows:
Primary Weapon : Rapier
Secondary Weapon: Dagger
Feats: Dual Wielder, Defensive Duelist
Dual Wielder lets you make 2 attacks with your primary weapon + one attack with the dagger if you have Extra Attack, or one dagger + one rapier attack if you don't. It's just that one of those rapier attacks is with your BA.
Defensive Duelist gives you the Parry reaction.
As for your HB "weapon", you need to get rid of the "Versatile" property, Versatile and Two-Handed are contradictory a weapon must either be one-handed+Versatile or Two-Handed. There is also no real benefit to using your HB weapon over the build I described above.
Howdy Agile!
Thank you for your informative response, but I think we must be reading two different versions of the Dual Wielder feat. For convenience, I've copied the text of the Dual Wielder feat from the 2024 PHB below. It very clearly states that your first attack,, which I would call your primary weapon, has to have the light property. Consulting the weapon chart in the Equipment chapter of the PHB informs that the rapier only has the finesse property. Absent an explicit listing of the light property as both shortsword and scimitar have along with finesse, the rapier cannot be considered a light weapon. Consequently, I believe it can only be used in the bonus action feature described in the feat without benefit of modifier to damage.
While such a build is possible and achieves two attacks from a character equipped with a rapier and dagger, it seems to miss the spirit, if you will, of the Renaissance-era practice of fighting with a rapier and parrying dagger. As I stated in the original post, that combination is not really acceptable to me.
Yes, I agree that versatile and two-handed may be contradictory, it still seems necessary in the weapon concept since it is not possible to wield it one-handed, but it is still possible to wield it using either your strength or dexterity modifier. Since it is a homebrew item, and with your DM's permission, such bending of the rules to allow for it since it doesn't confer any other benefit than using strength or dexterity and does limit the character from using a shield or making the somatic components of a spell when using the weapon.
Understanding that the versatile and two-handed properties are mutually exclusive is a valuable addition to my understanding of the rules, and one that I am grateful for.
I believe that using the two weapons as if they are one simulates the actual use of the rapier and parrying dagger as used during its day. Using the Dual Wielder combination allows a possible 1d4 + MOD + 1d8 of damage for a range of 2 + MOD to 12 + MOD damage, using the combined weapon yielding a 1d10 + MOD damage is a tolerable alternative, especially when compared to the damage that most versatile weapons do when wielded two-handed. It needn't matter whether the damage was provided by the dagger, rapier, or combination of the two. That detail can be left to the descriptive abilities of the player and DM, also as stated in the original post.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
Dual Wielder
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Strength or Dexterity 13+)
You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
Howdy Jurmondur!
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I hadn't considered the full ramifications of the versatile option, thank you for providing it.
Also, appreciated is the signature hint, but I like writing it because it reminds me that we are human beings communicating with each other in a common pursuit. A detail that I find too many miss when communicating through all the varieties of social media.
My desire is to recreate the Renaissance-era fighting style of wielding a rapier and parrying dagger. Dexterity and dagger are paramount to the defense of the wielder which cannot be achieved by a character wearing heavy armor. It is as simple as that. I am trying to scratch an itch that DnD has made very difficult to do.
There is a logic to combining the versatile property with the two-handed property -- I will note that the programming does not make the mutually exclusive when it easily could have -- because by its very nature using two weapons precludes using anything else in your hands. However, versatile seems necessary to allow for your dexterity modifier to be used, which is historically necessary for such a fighting style to be enacted in the DnD world.
To my mind and somewhat thorough researching of the issue, this seems a good compromise between the RAW, RAI, and what would like to achieve without being overpowered. I will note that I could have given it 1d12 damage since that is the combination of 1d8 (rapier) and 1d4 (dagger), but chose instead to align with the mode of the versatile weapon damages. Also, I resisted the temptation to add to AC because of the use of the parrying dagger. Choosing instead to create a series of feats that can be used in combination with the weapon.
Perhaps I'm wrong or foolish or misinformed, but creating the effect of rapier and parrying dagger is a pursuit that amuses me, keeps me occupied (and, consequently, out of trouble), and has given me no end of pleasure and consternation.
Thank you again for your feedback. It is much appreciated.
Game On, Sibling ;)
Jack
?
Versatile is completely unrelated to the ability modifier you use:
You're thinking of the finesse property:
As for programming them to be mutually exclusive, that might be trivial to implement in theory, if I understand it correctly the homebrew creator uses a framework that prevents that.
Thank you for that. It is most helpful.
Also, a framework that doesn't allow an if, then, else statement seems awfully limited and when you're trying to create things that have mutually exclusive properties, seems, well, let's just say, a major oversight. I understand that in the world of software design, there are fundamental choices with unexpected consequences that can be difficult to work around, but that's a problem for a completely different discussion on a completely different forum.
Jack
You can already do this at level 4 by using the dual wielder feat or level 5 by using extra attack, if you get it from a class. Or you can use both together.
I would simply create a new weapon for a parrying dagger that has sap mastery, which is defensive.
Howdy X!
Thank you for your advice. I appreciate the tip about a parrying dagger with the sap mastery. When I tried to create this weapon, I tried to give it the graze mastery, but it remains vex. I suspect any dagger created will have the nick property. Aside from that, what properties would you give a parrying dagger? A +1 AC? Making a rapier a light weapon? I'm trying to imagine the properties it would have that allow it to be used along side the rapier.
However, as I stated in the OP, the way dual wielder is written means that the dagger has to be used as the primary weapon due to its light property. While it can be done, I don't like it for the reasons stated in the original post. My apologies if I didn't make that clear in the OP since several commenters have mentioned it.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
The only mechanical requirement is for the dagger to be used first, and that doesn't make it your primary weapon.
Howdy Jurmondur!
I really appreciate the response, but this isn't an argument. It is an opinion based on an obsession.
That said, I think since the dagger is what causes the effect to occur and it gets modifiers to both attack and damage, that makes it the primary weapon. Opinions and interpretations differ.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
The best way to think of this is without the concept of primary and secondary weapon since that terminology doesn't not get used in 5e.
So for example, a 5th level fighter/barbarian/paladin etc gets 2 attacks with their attack action. They could make both of those attacks with one weapon, or can hold two weapons and make one attack with each. This second option is not optimal for damage but can provide tactical options using two different weapon masteries. So you could attack with a rapier as the first attack (vex) and a dagger with the second attack, although the extra bonus or free attack from light/nick would be wasted unless you drew another weapon. My parrying dagger suggestion above replaces the nick property with sap to make this work a little better.
Now add in the dual wielder feat. It looks something like
Action Action
Attack 1 - rapier (vex)
Attack 2 - parrying dagger (sap) (this being light triggers the extra bonus attack)
Bonus extra attack from dual wielder
Attack 3 - rapier (vex) (no ability modifier unless you have two-weapon fighting style)
So a total of 3 attacks at level 5. The only rule change needed is the creation of a sap rather than nick dagger. Worth saying that this combo does not do quite as much damage as using a nick weapon but is more defensive.
Howdy X!
I really appreciate you trying to explain how I could achieve what I want using RAW. Once you get your second attack -- if the class you''re playing gets two attacks -- you can actually use the rapier and dagger. Yes, but only if you have the class that has two attacks. You still only get ONE attack action, which your class allows you to attack twice. Two-Weapon Fighting, the Dual Wielder feat, and Two-Weapon Fighting Style allows you to make an attack as a BONUS ACTION after making an attack with a LIGHT weapon. So, if you attack with a LIGHT weapon, you can
So, with two attacks you on your Attack Action, you can take a Bonus Action attack as long as one of your weapons has the LIGHT property, which is NOT the rapier.
Both Two-Weapon Fighting and Dual Wielder make it very clear that your Bonus Action attack occurs later on the same turn after taking the Attack action with a LIGHT weapon. The weapon with the LIGHT property has to be used first, making it the prime weapon or primary weapon because it occurs first in the sequence.
I think all of that is clear in RAW and RAI.
SAP simply causes a creature hit by a SAP weapon to attack with DISADVANTAGE on its next attack. But, as I've stated, I couldn't make this weapon a Nick weapon even though I selected the weapon mastery, nick modification for it, so I don't think you can homebrew a SAP dagger, but maybe, I guess.
I do appreciate your efforts to help me here, but I feel like I've been through this a million times. This is how the RAW and RAI work. I'm happy with my homebrew work around. I honestly don't understand why this weapon and concept triggers so many people, but it seems to. Everyone wants to explain to me why I'm wrong, but since it is just opinion occurring in the theater of our minds, it is difficult to see how I'm wrong. If you cannot accept my reasoning as listed above, then accept my obsession as explained in the OP: I want it to mimic the Renaissance-style of fighting with a rapier and parrying dagger. I think it is only achieved through creating a weapon like this and with the addition of specific feats.
Game On, Sibling!
Jack
Two-Weapon Fighting
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don't add your ability modifier to the extra attack's damage unless that modifier is negative. For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don't add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Two-Weapon Fighting
Fighting Style Feat (Prerequisite: Fighting Style Feature)
When you make an extra attack as a result of using a weapon that has the Light property, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of that attack if you aren’t already adding it to the damage.
Sap
If you hit a creature with this weapon, that creature has Disadvantage on its next attack roll before the start of your next turn.
Dual Wielder
General Feat (Prerequisite: Level 4+, Strength or Dexterity 13+)
You gain the following benefits.
Ability Score Increase. Increase your Strength or Dexterity score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
Enhanced Dual Wielding. When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a weapon that has the Light property, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn with a different weapon, which must be a Melee weapon that lacks the Two-Handed property. You don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
Quick Draw. You can draw or stow two weapons that lack the Two-Handed property when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
I had always thought of the parrying dagger as a form of Shield, because you are not using the dagger as a means of attack but rather as a means of deflecting a melee attack. I have such a weapon and it has a large quillon (cross guard) that is used to catch an opponent's melee weapon.
If you do it right, you catch the opponent's sword, axe, club, mace and you twist the weapon aside just enough so that you force the opponent just enough off balance so that the weapon in your main hand has an enhanced chance to hit your opponent.
You could say that a parrying dagger imposes a Dexterity check on the opponent: relatively easy for a rogue but possibly not so easy for a cleric or fighter.
I think the simple way to represent a parrying dagger is by giving it 'sap' rather than 'nick'. If you ignore the name, sap is a generic defensive mastery. However I doubt it would be popular as everybody just seems to want more attacks by using nick. I would consider it alongside a shortsword or even rapier (with a feat) - vex and sap together.