Yes,I know this is generally regarded as a bad idea to implement any kind of Critical Fail or Critical Fumble table...
... THIS IS NOT THAT!!!
This is not an idea for a crit fumble table. In fact there is no table even here to have. So bear with me.
Something I’ve never heard of anyone using or talking about, is a very specific type of “Critical Fail”. (NOT a fumble table.)
If you cast any spell, that DOES NOT require you (the attacker/player) to roll to hit the target, those spells where the target has to roll Dex or Strength (or whatever for those oddball spells) to resist the effect or get out of its way...
... IF the TARGET of the spell effect ROLLS A NATURAL ONE, on their resist/evade check... the hit becomes a Crit, for that target that rolled the Nat One, and the damage is doubled ONLY for the target that rolled the Nat One, just like rolling a Nat 20 for spells and attacks that require an attack roll. :-)
This would make a crit fail condition, that is VERY specific, and (I THINK) should not be overpowered in most situations.
This would apply to player characters AND NPC’s equally in any given game.
QUESTIONS:
Have you ever heard of this, seen this, or anything like it?
What are your thoughts as a player, and as a DM/GM about it?
Is there a way you can think of to improve this idea? Or is this idea complete scrap in your opinion?
Please try to refrain from simply yelling NO at this and writing it off as stupid just because it's a crit fail thing. Yes I know crit fails are usually not well implemented, all I am asking for is advice and constructive criticism. I am new to DM'ing and this idea came to me, and I would like The DnD Community's HONEST opinion on it. Believe it or not, there are actually some good crit fail and critical fumble tables out there! Go take a look sometime! :-)
Please try to keep comments to a dull roar and be helpful please. That's all I ask.
I have been playing with some groups for about a year in a few different games where a 1 on a save, if it fails, is considered a critical fail. In our case, the target takes damage as if they were vulnerable to the damage. Does this make for some swingy combat? Yes. Do my players seem to enjoy it? Hell yes. There is something very satisfying about a fireball obliterating a target or a Toll the Dead at a clutch point doing 30+ points of damage. I do this mainly because we play with hard- hitting melee crits (on a crit the rolled components of a hit are maxed then rolled again. Example a crit with a great sword of 2d6+4 would be 2d6+16 damage.)
Why would I want to have a 1/20 chance of instant KO on an average damage roll when a character is targeted by a standard Fireball anytime before level 8? (Average of 56 on 16d6, which is slightly less than what a level 8 Fighter/Paladin with 14 Con will have at full health).
Critical hits are manageable because attack rolls usually involve only 1 or 2 dice plus an ability mod, which doesn’t get doubled, meaning they are less impactful, but saves are different. Abilities which use saves often don’t use an ability mod, and make up for that lost damage with even more dice. Furthermore, the abilities that use these saves for damage are usually nova spells like Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Cone of Cold, or monster-specific things.
As a general rule, I don’t like it. Though the average doesn’t change much, it adds much more risk and sometimes punch to an archetype of abilities that are usually nova/blast spells. If this was a specific ability a player class had that they applied to their spells, that’s a different story. It would be a cool, flavorful, and ultimately probably not that impactful ability to give on a magic item or homebrew class/subclass. Yeah, they might sometimes nuke your boss, but that happens sometimes. Just don’t make this a general effect that happens to everyone.
If I ever did critical failures, I believe it would only happen when rolling a 1 when at disadvantage. The chance is higher at 9.75% but something is causing that disadvantage so there should be a chance of greater peril than just a normal failure when rolling a 1, besides there are many ways to negate disadvantage, thereby negating the chance of a critical failure.
Pathfinder 2e has a similar system, where effects of a spell change based on whether you have a critical success, success, failure, or critical failure. It's kind of messy, and would have to be built into the spell or ability to be implemented. If you do it for purely damage spells, it would just feel bad for an unlucky player, but randomly give a buff to halflings. There would also have to be a compensation buff for critical successes for anyone to actually want it in the game as a player. And unless you implemented it in a way for non-damage abilities, it would favor damage abilities a little too much. Maybe try it for a specific monster or subclass to have an ability that said, "if a target fails its save against your spell by rolling a natural 1, X happens," then if you and your group like that you can implement it for the rest of your campaign. 5e in particular is a very player-empowering system, so most players probably wouldn't like a sudden change to "rolling 1 on a save = autodeath."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The Critical Fail, or Crit Fail as it is called.
Yes, I know this is generally regarded as a bad idea to implement any kind of Critical Fail or Critical Fumble table...
... THIS IS NOT THAT!!!
This is not an idea for a crit fumble table. In fact there is no table even here to have. So bear with me.
Something I’ve never heard of anyone using or talking about, is a very specific type of “Critical Fail”. (NOT a fumble table.)
If you cast any spell, that DOES NOT require you (the attacker/player) to roll to hit the target, those spells where the target has to roll Dex or Strength (or whatever for those oddball spells) to resist the effect or get out of its way...
... IF the TARGET of the spell effect ROLLS A NATURAL ONE, on their resist/evade check... the hit becomes a Crit, for that target that rolled the Nat One, and the damage is doubled ONLY for the target that rolled the Nat One, just like rolling a Nat 20 for spells and attacks that require an attack roll. :-)
This would make a crit fail condition, that is VERY specific, and (I THINK) should not be overpowered in most situations.
This would apply to player characters AND NPC’s equally in any given game.
QUESTIONS:
Interesting! The poll I put at the top seems to have some very mixed results.
I would welcome some constructive comments if anyone wishes to chime in please? :-)
Thank you!
I have been playing with some groups for about a year in a few different games where a 1 on a save, if it fails, is considered a critical fail. In our case, the target takes damage as if they were vulnerable to the damage. Does this make for some swingy combat? Yes. Do my players seem to enjoy it? Hell yes. There is something very satisfying about a fireball obliterating a target or a Toll the Dead at a clutch point doing 30+ points of damage. I do this mainly because we play with hard- hitting melee crits (on a crit the rolled components of a hit are maxed then rolled again. Example a crit with a great sword of 2d6+4 would be 2d6+16 damage.)
Why would I want to have a 1/20 chance of instant KO on an average damage roll when a character is targeted by a standard Fireball anytime before level 8? (Average of 56 on 16d6, which is slightly less than what a level 8 Fighter/Paladin with 14 Con will have at full health).
Critical hits are manageable because attack rolls usually involve only 1 or 2 dice plus an ability mod, which doesn’t get doubled, meaning they are less impactful, but saves are different. Abilities which use saves often don’t use an ability mod, and make up for that lost damage with even more dice. Furthermore, the abilities that use these saves for damage are usually nova spells like Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Cone of Cold, or monster-specific things.
As a general rule, I don’t like it. Though the average doesn’t change much, it adds much more risk and sometimes punch to an archetype of abilities that are usually nova/blast spells. If this was a specific ability a player class had that they applied to their spells, that’s a different story. It would be a cool, flavorful, and ultimately probably not that impactful ability to give on a magic item or homebrew class/subclass. Yeah, they might sometimes nuke your boss, but that happens sometimes. Just don’t make this a general effect that happens to everyone.
If I ever did critical failures, I believe it would only happen when rolling a 1 when at disadvantage. The chance is higher at 9.75% but something is causing that disadvantage so there should be a chance of greater peril than just a normal failure when rolling a 1, besides there are many ways to negate disadvantage, thereby negating the chance of a critical failure.
Pathfinder 2e has a similar system, where effects of a spell change based on whether you have a critical success, success, failure, or critical failure. It's kind of messy, and would have to be built into the spell or ability to be implemented. If you do it for purely damage spells, it would just feel bad for an unlucky player, but randomly give a buff to halflings. There would also have to be a compensation buff for critical successes for anyone to actually want it in the game as a player. And unless you implemented it in a way for non-damage abilities, it would favor damage abilities a little too much. Maybe try it for a specific monster or subclass to have an ability that said, "if a target fails its save against your spell by rolling a natural 1, X happens," then if you and your group like that you can implement it for the rest of your campaign. 5e in particular is a very player-empowering system, so most players probably wouldn't like a sudden change to "rolling 1 on a save = autodeath."