No. See page 205 of the PHB, near the bottom of the 1st column, under Combining Magical Effects.
Does that apply in this case? I think that is referring to targeted effects like haste and not AOEs like spirit guardians.
And if it is, which casting is the "most potent effect"? Higher save DC? Higher level casting? Radiant or necrotic damage? Does it apply only to the speed effect and not the damage? These are the questions that haunt me.
I'm not sure if this is right, but I would rule that the two speed reductions don't stack, since they occur simultaneously... they both target the same creature and reduce move speed by half of their max, but don't come sequentially, so that their speed is reduced by one, and then has the second instance reduce by half again.
I would, however, allow overlapping Spirit Guardians to both deal damage to creatures caught in both AOEs, since they each call for a separate Saving Throw.
Unfortunately, I don't really have specific rules to back me up on this... I'm more just talking about what my general understanding of the rules and my desire to not completely bork combat by allowing insane combos that essentially reduce an enemy to 5 feet of move speed.
There was a loooong thread debating this in the past...here's my take:
Combining Magical Effects only really applies to continuous effects, mainly because any effects that aren't continuous happen (if you use Xanathar's additional rules) in succession, even if they occur at the same time, and so how would you be "combining" them?:
spirit guardians has both continuous effects (slowed speed) and non-continuous effects (damage when you enter the range/start your turn there). I would rule that the continuous effect would fall under combining spell effects and not stack (the most recent or highest level of the two spell would supercede). But because the other effects aren't continuous, they happen sequentially, and so shouldn't be combined. So you would take the damage twice if you started your turn in both ranges, or if you started your turn outside and moved into one and then into the other, or if you started your turn in one and then move into the other.
But your speed would only ever be affected by one casting of the spell.
There was a loooong thread debating this in the past...here's my take:
Combining Magical Effects only really applies to continuous effects, mainly because any effects that aren't continuous happen (if you use Xanathar's additional rules) in succession, even if they occur at the same time, and so how would you be "combining" them?:
spirit guardians has both continuous effects (slowed speed) and non-continuous effects (damage when you enter the range/start your turn there). I would rule that the continuous effect would fall under combining spell effects and not stack (the most recent or highest level of the two spell would supercede). But because the other effects aren't continuous, they happen sequentially, and so shouldn't be combined. So you would take the damage twice if you started your turn in both ranges, or if you started your turn outside and moved into one and then into the other, or if you started your turn in one and then move into the other.
But your speed would only ever be affected by one casting of the spell.
Once again. no. The spells are identical. The only factors are the DC and the spell slot used. Say we have a 9th level cleric with a DC of 17 casting it using a 3rd level spell slot and a 7th level Cleric with a DC of 15 using a 4th level spell slot. The higher damage, after savings throws, is the only one that impacts the targets. The damage from one spell, and one spell only, affects a target, and the speed is affected only once.
There was a loooong thread debating this in the past...here's my take:
Combining Magical Effects only really applies to continuous effects, mainly because any effects that aren't continuous happen (if you use Xanathar's additional rules) in succession, even if they occur at the same time, and so how would you be "combining" them?:
spirit guardians has both continuous effects (slowed speed) and non-continuous effects (damage when you enter the range/start your turn there). I would rule that the continuous effect would fall under combining spell effects and not stack (the most recent or highest level of the two spell would supercede). But because the other effects aren't continuous, they happen sequentially, and so shouldn't be combined. So you would take the damage twice if you started your turn in both ranges, or if you started your turn outside and moved into one and then into the other, or if you started your turn in one and then move into the other.
But your speed would only ever be affected by one casting of the spell.
Once again. no. The spells are identical. The only factors are the DC and the spell slot used. Say we have a 9th level cleric with a DC of 17 casting it using a 3rd level spell slot and a 7th level Cleric with a DC of 15 using a 4th level spell slot. The higher damage, after savings throws, is the only one that impacts the targets. The damage from one spell, and one spell only, affects a target, and the speed is affected only once.
That is your interpretation. And if that is how you want to rule, fine.
I see nothing anti-RAW in mine given the context found in other sections. The specific rule in the Spellcasting for Combined spell effects only addresses spells effects with overlapping durations, with no reference to overlapping areas of effect, and the example given is a spell with only effects that have a duration. Spirit Guardians is a different type of spell spell with effects that are continuous (ie apply for the duration), and effects that are instantaneous (damage, occuring at the moment of entry or the start of your turn). The damage effects do not have an extended duration, and the Xanathar's rules would say they occur at slightly different times (not simultaneously), so the combined spell effects rule would not apply.
Feel free to disagree. You don't play at my table, so my interpretation will never affect you.
There was a loooong thread debating this in the past...here's my take:
Combining Magical Effects only really applies to continuous effects, mainly because any effects that aren't continuous happen (if you use Xanathar's additional rules) in succession, even if they occur at the same time, and so how would you be "combining" them?:
spirit guardians has both continuous effects (slowed speed) and non-continuous effects (damage when you enter the range/start your turn there). I would rule that the continuous effect would fall under combining spell effects and not stack (the most recent or highest level of the two spell would supercede). But because the other effects aren't continuous, they happen sequentially, and so shouldn't be combined. So you would take the damage twice if you started your turn in both ranges, or if you started your turn outside and moved into one and then into the other, or if you started your turn in one and then move into the other.
But your speed would only ever be affected by one casting of the spell.
Once again. no. The spells are identical. The only factors are the DC and the spell slot used. Say we have a 9th level cleric with a DC of 17 casting it using a 3rd level spell slot and a 7th level Cleric with a DC of 15 using a 4th level spell slot. The higher damage, after savings throws, is the only one that impacts the targets. The damage from one spell, and one spell only, affects a target, and the speed is affected only once.
That is your interpretation. And if that is how you want to rule, fine.
I see nothing anti-RAW in mine given the context found in other sections. The specific rule in the Spellcasting for Combined spell effects only addresses spells effects with overlapping durations, with no reference to overlapping areas of effect, and the example given is a spell with only effects that have a duration. Spirit Guardians is a different type of spell spell with effects that are continuous (ie apply for the duration), and effects that are instantaneous (damage, occuring at the moment of entry or the start of your turn). The damage effects do not have an extended duration, and the Xanathar's rules would say they occur at slightly different times (not simultaneously), so the combined spell effects rule would not apply.
Feel free to disagree. You don't play at my table, so my interpretation will never affect you.
I have said this before, and will continue to say this. I don't care what any one individual rules at their table. I care very very much when they come to a rules as written channel, such as this one, and state their incorrect interpretation of RAW, as just that: RAW. Then some new player reads that, takes it back to their table, and introduces misinformation to that table. At which point a good DM either catches it, and then a whole issue is created as the DM explains why the player is wrong, or the DM does not catch it, and the misinformation is propagated.
But here you go. This is from JC. He references the same page as I did, page 205.
There was a loooong thread debating this in the past...here's my take:
Combining Magical Effects only really applies to continuous effects, mainly because any effects that aren't continuous happen (if you use Xanathar's additional rules) in succession, even if they occur at the same time, and so how would you be "combining" them?:
spirit guardians has both continuous effects (slowed speed) and non-continuous effects (damage when you enter the range/start your turn there). I would rule that the continuous effect would fall under combining spell effects and not stack (the most recent or highest level of the two spell would supercede). But because the other effects aren't continuous, they happen sequentially, and so shouldn't be combined. So you would take the damage twice if you started your turn in both ranges, or if you started your turn outside and moved into one and then into the other, or if you started your turn in one and then move into the other.
But your speed would only ever be affected by one casting of the spell.
Once again. no. The spells are identical. The only factors are the DC and the spell slot used. Say we have a 9th level cleric with a DC of 17 casting it using a 3rd level spell slot and a 7th level Cleric with a DC of 15 using a 4th level spell slot. The higher damage, after savings throws, is the only one that impacts the targets. The damage from one spell, and one spell only, affects a target, and the speed is affected only once.
That is your interpretation. And if that is how you want to rule, fine.
I see nothing anti-RAW in mine given the context found in other sections. The specific rule in the Spellcasting for Combined spell effects only addresses spells effects with overlapping durations, with no reference to overlapping areas of effect, and the example given is a spell with only effects that have a duration. Spirit Guardians is a different type of spell spell with effects that are continuous (ie apply for the duration), and effects that are instantaneous (damage, occuring at the moment of entry or the start of your turn). The damage effects do not have an extended duration, and the Xanathar's rules would say they occur at slightly different times (not simultaneously), so the combined spell effects rule would not apply.
Feel free to disagree. You don't play at my table, so my interpretation will never affect you.
I have said this before, and will continue to say this. I don't care what any one individual rules at their table. I care very very much when they come to a rules as written channel, such as this one, and state their incorrect interpretation of RAW, as just that: RAW. Then some new player reads that, takes it back to their table, and introduces misinformation to that table. At which point a good DM either catches it, and then a whole issue is created as the DM explains why the player is wrong, or the DM does not catch it, and the misinformation is propagated.
But here you go. This is from JC. He references the same page as I did, page 205.
Command has a duration of one round, and the compulsion "lasts" until the target takes the action, so it is possible for two command spells to overlap in duration. This is exactly like the example spell from the PH, and not like Spirit Guardians, which again, has effects that do not have an extended duration. Once again, the same rule also does not address overlapping areas of effect. You have not refuted my argument.
There was a loooong thread debating this in the past...here's my take:
Combining Magical Effects only really applies to continuous effects, mainly because any effects that aren't continuous happen (if you use Xanathar's additional rules) in succession, even if they occur at the same time, and so how would you be "combining" them?:
spirit guardians has both continuous effects (slowed speed) and non-continuous effects (damage when you enter the range/start your turn there). I would rule that the continuous effect would fall under combining spell effects and not stack (the most recent or highest level of the two spell would supercede). But because the other effects aren't continuous, they happen sequentially, and so shouldn't be combined. So you would take the damage twice if you started your turn in both ranges, or if you started your turn outside and moved into one and then into the other, or if you started your turn in one and then move into the other.
But your speed would only ever be affected by one casting of the spell.
Once again. no. The spells are identical. The only factors are the DC and the spell slot used. Say we have a 9th level cleric with a DC of 17 casting it using a 3rd level spell slot and a 7th level Cleric with a DC of 15 using a 4th level spell slot. The higher damage, after savings throws, is the only one that impacts the targets. The damage from one spell, and one spell only, affects a target, and the speed is affected only once.
That is your interpretation. And if that is how you want to rule, fine.
I see nothing anti-RAW in mine given the context found in other sections. The specific rule in the Spellcasting for Combined spell effects only addresses spells effects with overlapping durations, with no reference to overlapping areas of effect, and the example given is a spell with only effects that have a duration. Spirit Guardians is a different type of spell spell with effects that are continuous (ie apply for the duration), and effects that are instantaneous (damage, occuring at the moment of entry or the start of your turn). The damage effects do not have an extended duration, and the Xanathar's rules would say they occur at slightly different times (not simultaneously), so the combined spell effects rule would not apply.
Feel free to disagree. You don't play at my table, so my interpretation will never affect you.
I have said this before, and will continue to say this. I don't care what any one individual rules at their table. I care very very much when they come to a rules as written channel, such as this one, and state their incorrect interpretation of RAW, as just that: RAW. Then some new player reads that, takes it back to their table, and introduces misinformation to that table. At which point a good DM either catches it, and then a whole issue is created as the DM explains why the player is wrong, or the DM does not catch it, and the misinformation is propagated.
But here you go. This is from JC. He references the same page as I did, page 205.
Command has a duration of one round, and the compulsion "lasts" until the target takes the action, so it is possible for two command spells to overlap in duration. This is exactly like the example spell from the PH, and not like Spirit Guardians, which again, has effects that do not have an extended duration. Once again, the same rule also does not address overlapping areas of effect. You have not refuted my argument.
OMG...a spell is a spell is a spell. Whether the duration is one round, or one hour.
OMG...a spell is a spell is a spell. Whether the duration is one round, or one hour.
A spell is definitely not just a spell and almost never also a spell.
If you get hit by two fireballs, you take damage from two fireballs. If you get hit by two peoples' respective spirit guardians then you take damage from two spirit guardians. Your speed is only halved once because of the rule of duplicate spell effects.
Damage and other instantaneous effects are not invalidated just because you were hit by that spell earlier in the turn, but you can only have one lasting effect from the two Command spells you were hit with.
I like Icon's ruling, but I think Vince's ruling is probably more correct. Though there are still nuances of it I am unsatisfied with...
The reason I think overlapping AOEs of the same spell should not stack (even for non-continuous effects) is sickening radiance. I doubt anyone would argue in favor of being able to inflict 6 levels of exhaustion in a single turn with enough casters/magic items.
I have said this before, and will continue to say this. I don't care what any one individual rules at their table. I care very very much when they come to a rules as written channel, such as this one, and state their incorrect interpretation of RAW, as just that: RAW. Then some new player reads that, takes it back to their table, and introduces misinformation to that table. At which point a good DM either catches it, and then a whole issue is created as the DM explains why the player is wrong, or the DM does not catch it, and the misinformation is propagated.
But here you go. This is from JC. He references the same page as I did, page 205.
I have said it before, and I will continue to say this. This isn't a RAW channel. It's a rules and game mechanics forum. Rules as written carry no more and no less weight than any kind of rules or other game mechanics in terms of what is appropriate for discussion here. Any larger purpose behind the supposed rigidity of favoring RAW in this channel is one that you yourself apply to it. This is gatekeeper mentality, and it is not needed here. If you think a post is inappropriate, then report it and let the moderators handle things.
I have said this before, and will continue to say this. I don't care what any one individual rules at their table. I care very very much when they come to a rules as written channel, such as this one, and state their incorrect interpretation of RAW, as just that: RAW. Then some new player reads that, takes it back to their table, and introduces misinformation to that table. At which point a good DM either catches it, and then a whole issue is created as the DM explains why the player is wrong, or the DM does not catch it, and the misinformation is propagated.
But here you go. This is from JC. He references the same page as I did, page 205.
I have said it before, and I will continue to say this. This isn't a RAW channel. It's a rules and game mechanics forum. Rules as written carry no more and no less weight than any kind of rules or other game mechanics in terms of what is appropriate for discussion here. Any larger purpose behind the supposed rigidity of favoring RAW in this channel is one that you yourself apply to it. This is gatekeeper mentality, and it is not needed here. If you think a post is inappropriate, then report it and let the moderators handle things.
Uh yeah, it is a RAW channel. If you think it is Gatekeeping to prove someone one wrong by bringing in factual sources to stop someone from spreading misinformation to who knows how many people who create a question and read the answers, well, you go ahead and report me. It is one thing to say "This is the RAW answer, but I House Rule it this way, because I am the DM". That is Rule 0. It is a hugely different thing to say "This answer of mine is RAW, and you can take it back to your table", when that answer is demonstrably NOT RAW.
This is quickly going to turn into a rehash of the prior thread, which went for 200 posts and convinced very few people (I read through it last night). The same sides and opinions are forming...unless anyone has a new argument or new evidence of their argument, what say we let this one go?
If you get hit by two fireballs, you take damage from two fireballs.
Yes, because they are both instantaneous, so their durations never overlap.
If you get hit by two peoples' respective spirit guardians then you take damage from two spirit guardians. Your speed is only halved once because of the rule of duplicate spell effects.
No, there is only one spell effect for each spell, and that is the entire description of the spell, which comprises both the slowing down and the damage, because RAW says: "Each spell description in Chapter 11 begins with a block of information, including the spell's name, level, school of magic, casting time, range, components, and duration. The rest of a spell entry describes the spell's effect."
Damage and other instantaneous effects are not invalidated just because you were hit by that spell earlier in the turn, but you can only have one lasting effect from the two Command spells you were hit with.
Damage and slowing down are "the spell effect", Spirit Guardians has a duration and if two castings overlap, only ONE effect takes place, and that effect damages and potentially slows down the target. ONE effect.
Last one: if you remember, there are two rules: Spell effects in the PH, and game effects in the DMG. The spell effects example does not use a spell with multiple parts, or parts that occur instantaneously, or that deal damage. The game effects rule example does, and treats the parts that occur instantly different from the parts that are ongoing. There’s enough evidence to argue either side with the info we have, so unless JC has a new tweet that would give better insight, or something was published in a new errata/book, we have nothing new to argue over
This is quickly going to turn into a rehash of the prior thread, which went for 200 posts and convinced very few people (I read through it last night). The same sides and opinions are forming...unless anyone has a new argument or new evidence of their argument, what say we let this one go?
That may be true, but I object to using the word "opinion.". I gives credence to the side that is factually wrong.
It is the same as arguing with someone who says "The world is flat", or "The speed of light is variable in a vacuum.", and a 3rd person steps in and says "well, both your opinions matter." Jan 6th american democracy almost fell because of "Opinions on both sides matter." D&D is not the real world, but the same logic applies.
This is quickly going to turn into a rehash of the prior thread, which went for 200 posts and convinced very few people (I read through it last night). The same sides and opinions are forming...unless anyone has a new argument or new evidence of their argument, what say we let this one go?
That may be true, but I object to using the word "opinion.". I gives credence to the side that is factually wrong.
It is the same as arguing with someone who says "The world is flat", or "The speed of light is variable in a vacuum.", and a 3rd person steps in and says "well, both your opinions matter." Jan 6th american democracy almost fell because of "Opinions on both sides matter." D&D is not the real world, but the same logic applies.
Hey Vince - last time I check both sides have sound arguments
Comparing the side you don't like to "Flat Earth" which provides ZERO factual evidence to support their side is blatantly disrespectful. iconarising has show evidence in the books that support their side so let's not pretend "a spell is a spell is a spell is a spell" is the sound argument here.
The books support that The damage would occur for both spells, but the half speed would only happen once. However for me this is because Half could be applied to their standard speed from both spells Vs additive. Sort of like how earlier this week there was discussion of if a goliath feature stacked with other features that "increase your size by one for carrying capacity"
This is quickly going to turn into a rehash of the prior thread, which went for 200 posts and convinced very few people (I read through it last night). The same sides and opinions are forming...unless anyone has a new argument or new evidence of their argument, what say we let this one go?
That may be true, but I object to using the word "opinion.". I gives credence to the side that is factually wrong.
It is the same as arguing with someone who says "The world is flat", or "The speed of light is variable in a vacuum.", and a 3rd person steps in and says "well, both your opinions matter." Jan 6th american democracy almost fell because of "Opinions on both sides matter." D&D is not the real world, but the same logic applies.
Hey Vince - last time I check both sides have sound arguments
Comparing the side you don't like to "Flat Earth" which provides ZERO factual evidence to support their side is blatantly disrespectful. iconarising has show evidence in the books that support their side so let's not pretend "a spell is a spell is a spell is a spell" is the sound argument here.
The books support that The damage would occur for both spells, but the half speed would only happen once. However for me this is because Half could be applied to their standard speed from both spells Vs additive. Sort of like how earlier this week there was discussion of if a goliath feature stacked with other features that "increase your size by one for carrying capacity"
Umm...no. JC's quote ended this "debate". Lyxen added punctuation. There is correct, and there is incorrect. There is no grey zone on this one. No debate. No opinions. If this is a Rules and Game Mechanics subforum, there is no equivocation.
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No. See page 205 of the PHB, near the bottom of the 1st column, under Combining Magical Effects.
Does that apply in this case? I think that is referring to targeted effects like haste and not AOEs like spirit guardians.
And if it is, which casting is the "most potent effect"? Higher save DC? Higher level casting? Radiant or necrotic damage? Does it apply only to the speed effect and not the damage? These are the questions that haunt me.
I'm not sure if this is right, but I would rule that the two speed reductions don't stack, since they occur simultaneously... they both target the same creature and reduce move speed by half of their max, but don't come sequentially, so that their speed is reduced by one, and then has the second instance reduce by half again.
I would, however, allow overlapping Spirit Guardians to both deal damage to creatures caught in both AOEs, since they each call for a separate Saving Throw.
Unfortunately, I don't really have specific rules to back me up on this... I'm more just talking about what my general understanding of the rules and my desire to not completely bork combat by allowing insane combos that essentially reduce an enemy to 5 feet of move speed.
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At my table it would count once under the rule of combining magical effects.
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There was a loooong thread debating this in the past...here's my take:
Combining Magical Effects only really applies to continuous effects, mainly because any effects that aren't continuous happen (if you use Xanathar's additional rules) in succession, even if they occur at the same time, and so how would you be "combining" them?:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/xgte/dungeon-masters-tools#SimultaneousEffects
spirit guardians has both continuous effects (slowed speed) and non-continuous effects (damage when you enter the range/start your turn there). I would rule that the continuous effect would fall under combining spell effects and not stack (the most recent or highest level of the two spell would supercede). But because the other effects aren't continuous, they happen sequentially, and so shouldn't be combined. So you would take the damage twice if you started your turn in both ranges, or if you started your turn outside and moved into one and then into the other, or if you started your turn in one and then move into the other.
But your speed would only ever be affected by one casting of the spell.
Once again. no. The spells are identical. The only factors are the DC and the spell slot used. Say we have a 9th level cleric with a DC of 17 casting it using a 3rd level spell slot and a 7th level Cleric with a DC of 15 using a 4th level spell slot. The higher damage, after savings throws, is the only one that impacts the targets. The damage from one spell, and one spell only, affects a target, and the speed is affected only once.
That is your interpretation. And if that is how you want to rule, fine.
I see nothing anti-RAW in mine given the context found in other sections. The specific rule in the Spellcasting for Combined spell effects only addresses spells effects with overlapping durations, with no reference to overlapping areas of effect, and the example given is a spell with only effects that have a duration. Spirit Guardians is a different type of spell spell with effects that are continuous (ie apply for the duration), and effects that are instantaneous (damage, occuring at the moment of entry or the start of your turn). The damage effects do not have an extended duration, and the Xanathar's rules would say they occur at slightly different times (not simultaneously), so the combined spell effects rule would not apply.
Feel free to disagree. You don't play at my table, so my interpretation will never affect you.
I have said this before, and will continue to say this. I don't care what any one individual rules at their table. I care very very much when they come to a rules as written channel, such as this one, and state their incorrect interpretation of RAW, as just that: RAW. Then some new player reads that, takes it back to their table, and introduces misinformation to that table. At which point a good DM either catches it, and then a whole issue is created as the DM explains why the player is wrong, or the DM does not catch it, and the misinformation is propagated.
But here you go. This is from JC. He references the same page as I did, page 205.
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/774030127529201664
Command has a duration of one round, and the compulsion "lasts" until the target takes the action, so it is possible for two command spells to overlap in duration. This is exactly like the example spell from the PH, and not like Spirit Guardians, which again, has effects that do not have an extended duration. Once again, the same rule also does not address overlapping areas of effect. You have not refuted my argument.
OMG...a spell is a spell is a spell. Whether the duration is one round, or one hour.
A spell is definitely not just a spell and almost never also a spell.
If you get hit by two fireballs, you take damage from two fireballs. If you get hit by two peoples' respective spirit guardians then you take damage from two spirit guardians. Your speed is only halved once because of the rule of duplicate spell effects.
Damage and other instantaneous effects are not invalidated just because you were hit by that spell earlier in the turn, but you can only have one lasting effect from the two Command spells you were hit with.
I like Icon's ruling, but I think Vince's ruling is probably more correct. Though there are still nuances of it I am unsatisfied with...
The reason I think overlapping AOEs of the same spell should not stack (even for non-continuous effects) is sickening radiance. I doubt anyone would argue in favor of being able to inflict 6 levels of exhaustion in a single turn with enough casters/magic items.
I have said it before, and I will continue to say this. This isn't a RAW channel. It's a rules and game mechanics forum. Rules as written carry no more and no less weight than any kind of rules or other game mechanics in terms of what is appropriate for discussion here. Any larger purpose behind the supposed rigidity of favoring RAW in this channel is one that you yourself apply to it. This is gatekeeper mentality, and it is not needed here. If you think a post is inappropriate, then report it and let the moderators handle things.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Uh yeah, it is a RAW channel. If you think it is Gatekeeping to prove someone one wrong by bringing in factual sources to stop someone from spreading misinformation to who knows how many people who create a question and read the answers, well, you go ahead and report me. It is one thing to say "This is the RAW answer, but I House Rule it this way, because I am the DM". That is Rule 0. It is a hugely different thing to say "This answer of mine is RAW, and you can take it back to your table", when that answer is demonstrably NOT RAW.
This is quickly going to turn into a rehash of the prior thread, which went for 200 posts and convinced very few people (I read through it last night). The same sides and opinions are forming...unless anyone has a new argument or new evidence of their argument, what say we let this one go?
Last one: if you remember, there are two rules: Spell effects in the PH, and game effects in the DMG. The spell effects example does not use a spell with multiple parts, or parts that occur instantaneously, or that deal damage. The game effects rule example does, and treats the parts that occur instantly different from the parts that are ongoing. There’s enough evidence to argue either side with the info we have, so unless JC has a new tweet that would give better insight, or something was published in a new errata/book, we have nothing new to argue over
That may be true, but I object to using the word "opinion.". I gives credence to the side that is factually wrong.
It is the same as arguing with someone who says "The world is flat", or "The speed of light is variable in a vacuum.", and a 3rd person steps in and says "well, both your opinions matter." Jan 6th american democracy almost fell because of "Opinions on both sides matter." D&D is not the real world, but the same logic applies.
Hey Vince - last time I check both sides have sound arguments
Comparing the side you don't like to "Flat Earth" which provides ZERO factual evidence to support their side is blatantly disrespectful. iconarising has show evidence in the books that support their side so let's not pretend "a spell is a spell is a spell is a spell" is the sound argument here.
The books support that The damage would occur for both spells, but the half speed would only happen once. However for me this is because Half could be applied to their standard speed from both spells Vs additive. Sort of like how earlier this week there was discussion of if a goliath feature stacked with other features that "increase your size by one for carrying capacity"
Umm...no. JC's quote ended this "debate". Lyxen added punctuation. There is correct, and there is incorrect. There is no grey zone on this one. No debate. No opinions. If this is a Rules and Game Mechanics subforum, there is no equivocation.