Would you get to reroll 1's and 2's when throwing spears and tridents? The Fighting Style says you get to reroll when you attack with melee weapons, it does not specify melee attacks, so a thrown melee weapon would qualify. It says the weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property, which spears and tridents have. The only sticking point might be that you need to be "wielding [it] with two hands", which might disqualify actually throwing it (are you "wielding" it while you throw it? I guess you can throw it with both hands, even if it looks, and probably is, awkward...).
Well, this is incredibly rules-lawyer-y but technically Rules As Written doesn't prevent you. You would even benefit from the use of the weapon's versatile damage in the process. Nowhere does it specify Great Weapon Fighting is limited to melee attacks, just melee weapons. Thrown let's you use the same damage roll as you'd use for a melee attack, and does not specify that you must use one hand to throw the weapon, and Versatile lets you use the higher damage when you make a melee attack with two hands, which can then be applied through the Thrown property.
Emphasis mine:
Versatile. This weapon can be used with one or two hands. A damage value in parentheses appears with the property — the damage when the weapon is used with two hands to make a melee attack.
Thrown. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a handaxe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the dagger has the finesse property.
Great Weapon Fighting
When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
You cannot throw a versatile weapon and use the two-handed damage. Versatile specifically says the two-handed damage in parentheses can be done with "a melee attack". Conversely - the Thrown property says that when you throw a weapon - you make "a ranged attack" with it. The two are mutually exclusive.
That said - there's nothing that I can find that stops you throwing a weapon with two-hands - you just don't get the Versatile damage from it. So you could throw a versatile weapon with two-hands and use Great Weapon Fighting Fighting Style with it - but you would be using a d6 instead of a d8.
Thrown. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon.
This is a highly suspect use of emphasis to arrive at a conclusion. Reading just the bolded bits lead to a very different sentence than including what is in between. It is not saying that you would do the same damage roll when you throw it as you would in melee. What it is actually saying is simply that you can use the same ability modifiers whether you throw it or swing it in melee.
Fair enough, I misread the Thrown sentence then. I read it as the "and" separating the sentence into two components consisting of "the same ability modifier for the attack roll" and "the same damage roll you would use for a melee attack", instead of the combined "the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll".
When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Descripción says "you are wielding".
In my opinion if you throw a weapon you aren't wielding It.
Well technically you are wielding it the moment you make the attack - otherwise you wouldn't have a weapon with which to throw.
Equally technically, you're not wielding it when you roll damage ;)
My personal take aligns with 6thLyranGuard, I think. Using two hands is definitely not the proper way to use these weapons, which at the very least would be grounds for imposing disadvantage, and I may even deny a proficiency bonus as well.
In my opinion if you throw a weapon you aren't wielding It.
You most certainly are, or at least we're. You can't attack with a weapon you are not wielding. There is not a specific rule for this because common language... But wield means (simply put) hold to use, so using something you are holding (such as making an attack) is wielding, and I am sick of "common language."
Anyway...
As others have pointed out, versatile only applies to melee attacks, throwing is ranged, so you can't throw with 2 hands. Simple.
Well technically you are wielding it the moment you make the attack - otherwise you wouldn't have a weapon with which to throw.
Equally technically, you're not wielding it when you roll damage ;)
My personal take aligns with 6thLyranGuard, I think. Using two hands is definitely not the proper way to use these weapons, which at the very least would be grounds for imposing disadvantage, and I may even deny a proficiency bonus as well.
I'm curious about RAW, not RAI (which is pretty obviously not to allow GWF on thrown attacks), and certainly not in house rules (like imposing Disadvantage if throwing a spear two-handed). The "proper" way to use weapons shouldn't really come into it, since many of these weapons are not used the "proper" way, historically, and that's not a problem. To be clear, I'm pretty sure I would not allow GWF on thrown spears in my games as DM, and I wouldn't try to get away with it as a player. I'm just curious as to whether RAW supports it.
As others have pointed out, versatile only applies to melee attacks, throwing is ranged, so you can't throw with 2 hands. Simple.
That's a bit of a non-sequitur, though. Versatile says the weapon can be used with one or two hands, period. It then goes on to say that when you use the weapon to make a melee attack, you use the higher damage die. It does not, anywhere, say you can't throw it with both hands. In other words, versatile wil only increase your damage in melee attacks, but that doesn't mean the property itself only applies to melee attacks.
As others have pointed out, versatile only applies to melee attacks, throwing is ranged, so you can't throw with 2 hands. Simple.
That's a bit of a non-sequitur, though. Versatile says the weapon can be used with one or two hands, period. It then goes on to say that when you use the weapon to make a melee attack, you use the higher damage die. It does not, anywhere, say you can't throw it with both hands. In other words, versatile wil only increase your damage in melee attacks, but that doesn't mean the property itself only applies to melee attacks.
It is very much a sequitur depending on wether you treat descriptions as rules text. Unfortunately 5e doesn't make a distinction between the 2.
As others have pointed out, versatile only applies to melee attacks, throwing is ranged, so you can't throw with 2 hands. Simple.
That's a bit of a non-sequitur, though. Versatile says the weapon can be used with one or two hands, period. It then goes on to say that when you use the weapon to make a melee attack, you use the higher damage die. It does not, anywhere, say you can't throw it with both hands. In other words, versatile wil only increase your damage in melee attacks, but that doesn't mean the property itself only applies to melee attacks.
It is very much a sequitur depending on wether you treat descriptions as rules text. Unfortunately 5e doesn't make a distinction between the 2.
Even if you do treat descriptions as rules text, versatile never says it only applies to melee attacks. It says it boosts your damage for melee attacks, but it also says the weapon can be used in either one or two hands. Compare it to the Crossbow Expert Feat, particularly the 2nd point: it removes Disadvantage from ranged attacks when adjacent to an enemy. It doesn't say, nor imply, that it only applies to ranged attacks with crossbows. In fact, it's been verified that was intended (for it to apply to all ranged attacks, not just crossbow ones, that is). I seriously doubt that was the intent with versatile, as much as I seriously doubt you can benefit from GWF with thrown attacks, though. (That is, I don't think your conclusion's wrong, I think your argument is.)
RAI - you can't do it, apart from the Hammer in Athletics, what gets thrown 2 handed?
Whoa. What about the Hammer of Thunderbolts? It's a maul, so it's two-handed. I'd think it'd be necessary to hurl it with both hands, in fact. Should it get the benefit of GWF?
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Would you get to reroll 1's and 2's when throwing spears and tridents? The Fighting Style says you get to reroll when you attack with melee weapons, it does not specify melee attacks, so a thrown melee weapon would qualify. It says the weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property, which spears and tridents have. The only sticking point might be that you need to be "wielding [it] with two hands", which might disqualify actually throwing it (are you "wielding" it while you throw it? I guess you can throw it with both hands, even if it looks, and probably is, awkward...).
Well, this is incredibly rules-lawyer-y but technically Rules As Written doesn't prevent you. You would even benefit from the use of the weapon's versatile damage in the process. Nowhere does it specify Great Weapon Fighting is limited to melee attacks, just melee weapons. Thrown let's you use the same damage roll as you'd use for a melee attack, and does not specify that you must use one hand to throw the weapon, and Versatile lets you use the higher damage when you make a melee attack with two hands, which can then be applied through the Thrown property.
Emphasis mine:
Versatile. This weapon can be used with one or two hands. A damage value in parentheses appears with the property — the damage when the weapon is used with two hands to make a melee attack.
Thrown. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a handaxe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the dagger has the finesse property.
Great Weapon Fighting
When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
I don't think I'd allow someone to use two hands when throwing a spear. It's not technically against RAW, but that is not how throwing a spear works.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
You cannot throw a versatile weapon and use the two-handed damage. Versatile specifically says the two-handed damage in parentheses can be done with "a melee attack". Conversely - the Thrown property says that when you throw a weapon - you make "a ranged attack" with it. The two are mutually exclusive.
That said - there's nothing that I can find that stops you throwing a weapon with two-hands - you just don't get the Versatile damage from it. So you could throw a versatile weapon with two-hands and use Great Weapon Fighting Fighting Style with it - but you would be using a d6 instead of a d8.
This is a highly suspect use of emphasis to arrive at a conclusion. Reading just the bolded bits lead to a very different sentence than including what is in between. It is not saying that you would do the same damage roll when you throw it as you would in melee. What it is actually saying is simply that you can use the same ability modifiers whether you throw it or swing it in melee.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Fair enough, I misread the Thrown sentence then. I read it as the "and" separating the sentence into two components consisting of "the same ability modifier for the attack roll" and "the same damage roll you would use for a melee attack", instead of the combined "the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll".
I stand corrected on that part.
Great Weapon Fighting
When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Descripción says "you are wielding".
In my opinion if you throw a weapon you aren't wielding It.
Well technically you are wielding it the moment you make the attack - otherwise you wouldn't have a weapon with which to throw.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Equally technically, you're not wielding it when you roll damage ;)
My personal take aligns with 6thLyranGuard, I think. Using two hands is definitely not the proper way to use these weapons, which at the very least would be grounds for imposing disadvantage, and I may even deny a proficiency bonus as well.
You most certainly are, or at least we're. You can't attack with a weapon you are not wielding. There is not a specific rule for this because common language... But wield means (simply put) hold to use, so using something you are holding (such as making an attack) is wielding, and I am sick of "common language."
Anyway...
As others have pointed out, versatile only applies to melee attacks, throwing is ranged, so you can't throw with 2 hands. Simple.
I'm curious about RAW, not RAI (which is pretty obviously not to allow GWF on thrown attacks), and certainly not in house rules (like imposing Disadvantage if throwing a spear two-handed). The "proper" way to use weapons shouldn't really come into it, since many of these weapons are not used the "proper" way, historically, and that's not a problem. To be clear, I'm pretty sure I would not allow GWF on thrown spears in my games as DM, and I wouldn't try to get away with it as a player. I'm just curious as to whether RAW supports it.
That's a bit of a non-sequitur, though. Versatile says the weapon can be used with one or two hands, period. It then goes on to say that when you use the weapon to make a melee attack, you use the higher damage die. It does not, anywhere, say you can't throw it with both hands. In other words, versatile wil only increase your damage in melee attacks, but that doesn't mean the property itself only applies to melee attacks.
Well as DxJxC pointed out - there is no RAW definition for "wield" because they've used natural language - so there is no RAW answer.
It really comes down to whether you would permit the use of the word "wielding" while throwing. I would - but it's clear others wouldn't.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
It is very much a sequitur depending on wether you treat descriptions as rules text. Unfortunately 5e doesn't make a distinction between the 2.
Even if you do treat descriptions as rules text, versatile never says it only applies to melee attacks. It says it boosts your damage for melee attacks, but it also says the weapon can be used in either one or two hands. Compare it to the Crossbow Expert Feat, particularly the 2nd point: it removes Disadvantage from ranged attacks when adjacent to an enemy. It doesn't say, nor imply, that it only applies to ranged attacks with crossbows. In fact, it's been verified that was intended (for it to apply to all ranged attacks, not just crossbow ones, that is). I seriously doubt that was the intent with versatile, as much as I seriously doubt you can benefit from GWF with thrown attacks, though. (That is, I don't think your conclusion's wrong, I think your argument is.)
RAW - you can do it
RAI - you can't do it, apart from the Hammer in Athletics, what gets thrown 2 handed?
Whoa. What about the Hammer of Thunderbolts? It's a maul, so it's two-handed. I'd think it'd be necessary to hurl it with both hands, in fact. Should it get the benefit of GWF?