Question regarding the wording of the Shield Master Feat. This is how it reads on the DnDBeyond character sheet:
"If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any DEX saving throw you make against effects that target only you, and if an effect allows half damage on success, you can use your reaction to take no damage."
Then if you click on Shield Master Feat to pop out the detailed explanation or if you searched for it on the site it reads:
If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any Dexterity saving throw you make against a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you.
If you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you can use your reaction to take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, interposing your shield between yourself and the source of the effect.
So, to me the first example reads that if you are hit with fireball you don't get to use your shield's AC bonus and also do not get to possibly reduce the damage to nothing if you make the save. The second example, listed as bullet points, leads me to think that the two things are separate. One, a determination if you can add your shield's AC bonus or not. Second, if you make that save for an effect that has half damage, you instead take no damage.
The second interpretation is correct. The "And" in the first part isn't particularly well worded, but the two are separate effects. Keep in mind that the second effect is a full on Reaction, whereas the first effects is always-on.
I don't really understand what either of you are trying to say.
I'm going to leave aside the confusion over what "targets only you" can mean. Some people would think that a Fireball that includes only you in its area of effect fits that bill. Others would say that spell which target points that aren't creatures don't target the creatures within them, and that something like Sacred Flame is the sort of spell that Shield Master works against. And the fact that Fireball is poorly edited, and refers to the creatures as targets but not the point that you target as a target only further muddies the waters. But forget all of that for now, I'm just going to use Fireball below:
Normally, if you're hit with a Fireball, you make a Dexterity Saving Throw. If you pass, half damage. If you fail, full damage.
With Shield Master, if you're hit with a Fireball while holding a Shield that targets only you, you make a Dexterity Saving Throw + Shield AC Bonus (usually 2). If the spell targets other creatures, Dexterity Save as normal. Either way (for both spells that target only you and spells that target you and other creatures), if you pass, half damage, unless you also use your reaction to take no damage. If you fail, full damage.
Bear in mind, the first effect is extraordinarily rare. Just looked through the spells list, and the only cantrips I found that are single target dex save are Sacred Flame and Light, and the only first level spells of that sort I found were Catapult, Hellish Rebuke, and Snare. Heck, let's keep going. Bear in mind I might miss some - the dndbeyond spell search interface is far from perfect.
Cantrips: Light, Sacred Flame
Catapult, Hellish Rebuke, Snare
-
-
Grasping Vine, Resilient Sphere
Enervation, Immolation
Disintegrate
-
-
Wish (if used to duplicate a spell above)
It's just incredibly rare for a dex save spell to target exactly one creature. It can be challenging reasoning about some spells with this feat: Cordon of Arrows, Guardian of Faith, Bones of the Earth, and Blade Barrier all summon something (so no creature is targeted by the spell, meaning we can open the other ability of the feat, which is resisting mono-target effects) which looks like it should result in you making a dex save against an effect targeting only you, until you think about what happens if you're mounted when this happens. Since once you allow Cordon of Arrows to count as many single-target effects, not one multi-target effect, you have begun to descend into madness, as the same argument can be applied to any AOE ever, none of the spells made this list. Resilient Sphere is special: a strict RAW interpretation means that if you cast on half of a mounted duo, the sphere shoves them apart, and by definition, the spell is always monotarget.
Well, it's inconsistent for ray attacks too (Scorching Ray targeting just you with all three rays, or splitting them up), it's just an inconsistent ability no matter how you cut it. There is indeed a very big and far-reaching debate to have about what a "target" is, whether "targets only you" and "you are the only target" are the same thing, or even you being the only creature within the "target area", etc etc etc. That's all probably better suited for another thread, because the logic of Shield Master doesn't control that larger question.
Well, it's inconsistent for ray attacks too (Scorching Ray targeting just you with all three rays, or splitting them up), it's just an inconsistent ability no matter how you cut it. There is indeed a very big and far-reaching debate to have about what a "target" is, whether "targets only you" and "you are the only target" are the same thing, or even you being the only creature within the "target area", etc etc etc. That's all probably better suited for another thread, because the logic of Shield Master doesn't control that larger question.
Scorching Ray involves attack rolls, so you always get your shield bonus against it. It doesn't really factor into this conversation.
The rest aside, "targets only you" and "of which you are the only target" are absolutely, 100%, semantically identical. That's not debatable.
Well, it's inconsistent for ray attacks too (Scorching Ray targeting just you with all three rays, or splitting them up), it's just an inconsistent ability no matter how you cut it. There is indeed a very big and far-reaching debate to have about what a "target" is, whether "targets only you" and "you are the only target" are the same thing, or even you being the only creature within the "target area", etc etc etc. That's all probably better suited for another thread, because the logic of Shield Master doesn't control that larger question.
Scorching Ray involves attack rolls, so you always get your shield bonus against it. It doesn't really factor into this conversation.
The rest aside, "targets only you" and "of which you are the only target" are absolutely, 100%, semantically identical. That's not debatable.
I'm sorry, but it's not, if you consider the multiple meaning of the word "target" in english. Victims of a bomb blast are described as targets, but they were not individually targeted. Intent matters and the rules are consistent in this even though the same word is used in both cases. Even I, being a non native english speaker can see the difference and have no problem with the rules.
The "... targets only you" in the context of D&D means that you are specifically selected as a target by the spell or effect, that's all, where all the people in the area of a fireball are its targets. Not only is it used consistently through the rules, but it makes sense overall.
None of that is in any way a correct understanding of the language being used. If you are targeted, you are a target. If you're a target, you are targeted. In the real world, we do draw a line between "things an actor intended to hit" and "collateral damage," but we do not use the word "target" for the latter category. Things are not targets unless they've been targeted. That's why the same word is used for both.
I want to be super clear that I have zero intention of getting embroiled in the ever-present discussion of what constitutes a "target" in D&D; I'm only here to address a fundamental tautology of language.
Creatures affected by Fireball, Call Lightning, or similar AoE spells are absolutely targets of the spell. This has been clarified multiple times. They would normally be able to qualify for things like Shield Master and Warcaster. However, a majority of AoE spells also explicitly target a point in space. This is the reason they do not qualify, as even if you are the only affected creature, you are not the sole target.
The rules on spell targeting (PH, 204) do mean that you can't use the 2nd bullet of Shield Master against a typical AoE.
That being said, there are some AoE spells with a range of self which do qualify for Shield Master. Spells with a range of self do not actually target yourself, inherently. The only targets of Sword Burst, for example, are surrounding creatures. That means that Sword Burst qualifies for Shield Master, provided you are the only affected creature.
The 'self' rule is why Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade continue to work with Warcaster, even after being updated with Tasha's. See this additional discussion here. There is also another podcast that came out when Tasha's did that goes into more details.
A note about D&D spells with a range of "Self (XYZ)": the parenthetical—which says "5-foot radius," "15-foot cone," or something else—means you are the spell's point of origin, but you aren't necessarily its target. You're creating an effect that originates in your space.
That being said, there are some AoE spells with a range of self which do qualify for Shield Master. Spells with a range of self do not actually target yourself, inherently. The only targets of Sword Burst, for example, are surrounding creatures. That means that Sword Burst qualifies for Shield Master, provided you are the only affected creature.
That's impossible. Sword Burst and Fireball use the same rules for targeting. Both spells literally do this:
Target a point of origin within range for an area of effect.
Note that the range for Fireball is 120 feet, and the range for Sword Burst is Self, i.e. 0, so Sword Burst has to pick the caster as the point of origin. PHBp204 does make it explicitly clear that an AOE can have a creature as its origin point, as Sword Burst indeed does.
Determine Area of Effect.
Note that for Fireball, this is a sphere, with radius 20 feet. Sword Burst, like many spells, fails to specify an actual shape, but it does specify a radius, and p204 explains quite well how to resolve this, which means the AOE shape for Sword Burst is the shape of the caster - e.g. if a human casts Sword Burst, the AOE is human-shaped, because the AOE is the result of drawing an infinite number of straight lines out from the caster of the specified radius. In this case, that's 5 feet.
Note that both spells include their point of origin in their area of effect.
Resolve spell.
For both spells, this is every creature within the AOE must make a Dex save to determine how much damage it takes, and then it takes that much damage, except that sword burst explicitly states the caster is exempt. It needs to do this, because the caster is otherwise caught in the AOE.
So there's just no way you can swing Shield Master Bullet 2 working on only one of Sword Burst or Fireball - both spells engage in the same targeting rules to apply an AOE.
"...that targets only you" is not the same thing as "... of which you are the only target". It would be really inconsistent that you can use the first power on some instances of a fireball and not on others, just because you are alone in the area or not.
So the first sentence applies to Sacred Flame as it ever only has one target, and the second sentence applies to fireball as it allows you to take half-damage. Now, maybe there are some spells that allow a Dexterity Saving Throw for half--damage and have only one target, in which case you could use both powers assuming that you want to take your reaction to trigger the second one.
Incidentally, Immolation and Enervation both qualify for both, and naturally Wish might, depending on what you Wish for. The only other one I found was Sacred Flame cast by a Level 6+ Wizard(Evoker) (Potent Cantrip works on all cantrips, not just Wizard cantrips).
I'm considering Shield Master for a character and actually wanted a simpler clarification on this.
"Add your shield's AC bonus to any Dex save..." Does that mean that if I have a +2 shield I am adding +4 to my save (shield grants me +2 and +2 for the enchantment)?
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Edit: As Kaavel mentions in the next post, the 3rd clause of the feat can protect you from things like Fireball, but the second clause about the AC boost could be subject to more scrutiny.
I would argue that the intention of the (edit: "second part of the feat") feat is that it doesn't protect you from AoE damage like from a Fireball. Explosions, gas, storm, and ground cover effects all circumvent this feat (really anything that says "each creature" or "all others"). But something like Acid Splash, which can individually target multiple creatures, should be counted as "single target". I have some clarifications down at the bottom, but for anyone who finds this topic later on, here is the current list of spells I found in DnD Beyond that I feel would qualify.
A few of these, like Cordon of Arrows, don't initially have a single target, but in effect they react to things and seem to function like a single target... I would rule that they count for the purpose of this feat. I starred spells with clarification down below.
Cantrip: Light, Acid Splash *, Sacred Flame
Catapult, Hellish Rebuke
Cordon of Arrows *, Flaming Sphere *
-
Grasping Vine, Guardian of Faith *, Resilient Sphere
Enervation, Immolation
Disintegrate, Chain Lightning *
-
-
Wish (as quindraco mentioned above, Wish can be used to duplicate the aforementioned spells)
Specifics:
Acid Splash - Individually targets 1-2 creatures.
Cordon of Arrows - When the effect occurs it is single target.
Chain Lightning - Each target is selected individually.
Flaming Sphere - Most of it's effects are AoE, but I would argue that ramming the Flaming Sphere into someone counts as a single target.
Guardian of Faith - It seems to lash out at a single target that enters its range.
Snare sorta meets the requirement, but it doesn't really make sense to "block" it with a shield... I would probably NOT allow this.
I would argue that the intention of the feat is that it doesn't protect you from AoE damage like from a Fireball. <snip>
You're more than welcome to run this how you want at your table, but the feat specifies:
If you are subjected to an effect that allows you to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, you can use your reaction to take no damage if you succeed on the saving throw, interposing your shield between yourself and the source of the effect.
Kinda seems like the ability to protect oneself from Fireball, and many other sources of AOE damage, is baked right in. (pun not intended) The PC still needs to make the save, but it allows for further protection beyond not having the feat, on a successful save.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Sorry yeah, I confused myself a little... I guess my post is really only relevant to the second part with the AC boost that applies to "a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you".
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
1st effect isn't really against only spells, the script says "a spell or harmful effects that targets only you", so it is effective against the water whip discipline of four elements monk and similar effects. Also certain traps might be both targeting and still require dex save to evade(with this feat you'll probably block the effect via shield somehow i guess, like reflex save in 3rd edition perhaps?)... though obviously feat still needs some extra love.
Or you could simply house rule it, like we do in every game it has come up, that all AoE are eligible for the feat, as long as you are aware of the point of origin. If you can't see it coming, you can't use your reaction to interpose your shield between you and it.
All of our games have probably saved over a hundred hours by not arguing over badly written game designs, and just making House Rules that actually make sense.
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Question regarding the wording of the Shield Master Feat. This is how it reads on the DnDBeyond character sheet:
"If you aren't incapacitated, you can add your shield's AC bonus to any DEX saving throw you make against effects that target only you, and if an effect allows half damage on success, you can use your reaction to take no damage."
Then if you click on Shield Master Feat to pop out the detailed explanation or if you searched for it on the site it reads:
So, to me the first example reads that if you are hit with fireball you don't get to use your shield's AC bonus and also do not get to possibly reduce the damage to nothing if you make the save. The second example, listed as bullet points, leads me to think that the two things are separate. One, a determination if you can add your shield's AC bonus or not. Second, if you make that save for an effect that has half damage, you instead take no damage.
So, what is the correct interpretation?
The second interpretation is correct. The "And" in the first part isn't particularly well worded, but the two are separate effects. Keep in mind that the second effect is a full on Reaction, whereas the first effects is always-on.
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I don't really understand what either of you are trying to say.
I'm going to leave aside the confusion over what "targets only you" can mean. Some people would think that a Fireball that includes only you in its area of effect fits that bill. Others would say that spell which target points that aren't creatures don't target the creatures within them, and that something like Sacred Flame is the sort of spell that Shield Master works against. And the fact that Fireball is poorly edited, and refers to the creatures as targets but not the point that you target as a target only further muddies the waters. But forget all of that for now, I'm just going to use Fireball below:
Normally, if you're hit with a Fireball, you make a Dexterity Saving Throw. If you pass, half damage. If you fail, full damage.
With Shield Master, if you're hit with a Fireball while holding a Shield that targets only you, you make a Dexterity Saving Throw + Shield AC Bonus (usually 2). If the spell targets other creatures, Dexterity Save as normal. Either way (for both spells that target only you and spells that target you and other creatures), if you pass, half damage, unless you also use your reaction to take no damage. If you fail, full damage.
Is that what you guys are saying too?
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Bear in mind, the first effect is extraordinarily rare. Just looked through the spells list, and the only cantrips I found that are single target dex save are Sacred Flame and Light, and the only first level spells of that sort I found were Catapult, Hellish Rebuke, and Snare. Heck, let's keep going. Bear in mind I might miss some - the dndbeyond spell search interface is far from perfect.
Cantrips: Light, Sacred Flame
It's just incredibly rare for a dex save spell to target exactly one creature. It can be challenging reasoning about some spells with this feat: Cordon of Arrows, Guardian of Faith, Bones of the Earth, and Blade Barrier all summon something (so no creature is targeted by the spell, meaning we can open the other ability of the feat, which is resisting mono-target effects) which looks like it should result in you making a dex save against an effect targeting only you, until you think about what happens if you're mounted when this happens. Since once you allow Cordon of Arrows to count as many single-target effects, not one multi-target effect, you have begun to descend into madness, as the same argument can be applied to any AOE ever, none of the spells made this list. Resilient Sphere is special: a strict RAW interpretation means that if you cast on half of a mounted duo, the sphere shoves them apart, and by definition, the spell is always monotarget.
Well, it's inconsistent for ray attacks too (Scorching Ray targeting just you with all three rays, or splitting them up), it's just an inconsistent ability no matter how you cut it. There is indeed a very big and far-reaching debate to have about what a "target" is, whether "targets only you" and "you are the only target" are the same thing, or even you being the only creature within the "target area", etc etc etc. That's all probably better suited for another thread, because the logic of Shield Master doesn't control that larger question.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Scorching Ray involves attack rolls, so you always get your shield bonus against it. It doesn't really factor into this conversation.
The rest aside, "targets only you" and "of which you are the only target" are absolutely, 100%, semantically identical. That's not debatable.
D'oh, sometimes I forget the forest for the trees, of course its an attack spell :p
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
None of that is in any way a correct understanding of the language being used. If you are targeted, you are a target. If you're a target, you are targeted. In the real world, we do draw a line between "things an actor intended to hit" and "collateral damage," but we do not use the word "target" for the latter category. Things are not targets unless they've been targeted. That's why the same word is used for both.
I want to be super clear that I have zero intention of getting embroiled in the ever-present discussion of what constitutes a "target" in D&D; I'm only here to address a fundamental tautology of language.
Creatures affected by Fireball, Call Lightning, or similar AoE spells are absolutely targets of the spell. This has been clarified multiple times. They would normally be able to qualify for things like Shield Master and Warcaster. However, a majority of AoE spells also explicitly target a point in space. This is the reason they do not qualify, as even if you are the only affected creature, you are not the sole target.
See Crawford here:
That being said, there are some AoE spells with a range of self which do qualify for Shield Master. Spells with a range of self do not actually target yourself, inherently. The only targets of Sword Burst, for example, are surrounding creatures. That means that Sword Burst qualifies for Shield Master, provided you are the only affected creature.
The 'self' rule is why Booming Blade and Green Flame Blade continue to work with Warcaster, even after being updated with Tasha's. See this additional discussion here. There is also another podcast that came out when Tasha's did that goes into more details.
That's impossible. Sword Burst and Fireball use the same rules for targeting. Both spells literally do this:
So there's just no way you can swing Shield Master Bullet 2 working on only one of Sword Burst or Fireball - both spells engage in the same targeting rules to apply an AOE.
Incidentally, Immolation and Enervation both qualify for both, and naturally Wish might, depending on what you Wish for. The only other one I found was Sacred Flame cast by a Level 6+ Wizard(Evoker) (Potent Cantrip works on all cantrips, not just Wizard cantrips).
I'm considering Shield Master for a character and actually wanted a simpler clarification on this.
"Add your shield's AC bonus to any Dex save..." Does that mean that if I have a +2 shield I am adding +4 to my save (shield grants me +2 and +2 for the enchantment)?
That would be my interpretation of it.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Me too. A shield +2 has an AC bonus of 4.
Edit: As Kaavel mentions in the next post, the 3rd clause of the feat can protect you from things like Fireball, but the second clause about the AC boost could be subject to more scrutiny.
I would argue that the intention of the (edit: "second part of the feat") feat is that it doesn't protect you from AoE damage like from a Fireball. Explosions, gas, storm, and ground cover effects all circumvent this feat (really anything that says "each creature" or "all others"). But something like Acid Splash, which can individually target multiple creatures, should be counted as "single target". I have some clarifications down at the bottom, but for anyone who finds this topic later on, here is the current list of spells I found in DnD Beyond that I feel would qualify.
(I believe I have PHB, Tasha's, and Xanathar's, spell filter here: https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-save-required=2&filter-search=&sort=range)
A few of these, like Cordon of Arrows, don't initially have a single target, but in effect they react to things and seem to function like a single target... I would rule that they count for the purpose of this feat. I starred spells with clarification down below.
Cantrip: Light, Acid Splash *, Sacred Flame
Specifics:
You're more than welcome to run this how you want at your table, but the feat specifies:
Kinda seems like the ability to protect oneself from Fireball, and many other sources of AOE damage, is baked right in. (pun not intended) The PC still needs to make the save, but it allows for further protection beyond not having the feat, on a successful save.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Sorry yeah, I confused myself a little... I guess my post is really only relevant to the second part with the AC boost that applies to "a spell or other harmful effect that targets only you".
All good!
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
1st effect isn't really against only spells, the script says "a spell or harmful effects that targets only you", so it is effective against the water whip discipline of four elements monk and similar effects. Also certain traps might be both targeting and still require dex save to evade(with this feat you'll probably block the effect via shield somehow i guess, like reflex save in 3rd edition perhaps?)... though obviously feat still needs some extra love.
Or you could simply house rule it, like we do in every game it has come up, that all AoE are eligible for the feat, as long as you are aware of the point of origin. If you can't see it coming, you can't use your reaction to interpose your shield between you and it.
All of our games have probably saved over a hundred hours by not arguing over badly written game designs, and just making House Rules that actually make sense.