A scenario I found myself in the other day. Theres a 5ft pitfall trap in front of me. I'm playing a fighter with a strength score of 16. I say "okay I'll make a long jump to clear it" to which my dm tells me to make an athletics check. Confused I tell them "well no I can just clear this with the long jump mechanic" to which I essentially got the age old "I dont care, I'm the dm." Needless to say I fell in the hole despite RAW stating this is a distance I can easily clear. Am I in the wrong for questioning my DM's choice?
A scenario I found myself in the other day. Theres a 5ft pitfall trap in front of me. I'm playing a fighter with a strength score of 16. I say "okay I'll make a long jump to clear it" to which my dm tells me to make an athletics check. Confused I tell them "well no I can just clear this with the long jump mechanic" to which I essentially got the age old "I dont care, I'm the dm." Needless to say I fell in the hole despite RAW stating this is a distance I can easily clear. Am I in the wrong for questioning my DM's choice?
You're both in the wrong. You never respond to the DM telling you to make an ability check by arguing with them. It could be anything, like a magical effect springing into existence over the pit trap. You have no idea what's happening. When the DM tells you to roll Athletics, you do.
If the DM then explains what's happening and they get the rules wrong, you can and should explain what the rules say. Note my language: this is for when the DM makes an honest mistake. The DM can and should override the RAW as they see fit, but they should be aware that they're doing it and how they're doing it - it's in everyone's best interest to make sure they know what the RAW is if they want to house rule.
Your DM sounds problematic as well - "I don't care, I'm the DM." is an insufficient explanation.
So suppose, in this example, nothing weird is happening - there are no magical force effects pushing you down into the pit, etc. Your DM tells you to roll and you roll a 4, the minimum possible for your scenario. The DM tells you "you fall in the pit because you don't jump far enough". You should respond along the lines of, "Just so you know, the jumping rules say I can clear an 8 foot jump - are you changing the jump rules?" And then the DM should clarify - could be "Ooops, I didn't mean to!" or "Yes, the jumping rules now work like X." In either case, a good DM will tell you what the rules are. So even if the DM is houseruling how long jumps operate, you as a player should be entitled to know how long jumps operate in their campaign.
A scenario I found myself in the other day. Theres a 5ft pitfall trap in front of me. I'm playing a fighter with a strength score of 16. I say "okay I'll make a long jump to clear it" to which my dm tells me to make an athletics check. Confused I tell them "well no I can just clear this with the long jump mechanic" to which I essentially got the age old "I dont care, I'm the dm." Needless to say I fell in the hole despite RAW stating this is a distance I can easily clear. Am I in the wrong for questioning my DM's choice?
You're both in the wrong. You never respond to the DM telling you to make an ability check by arguing with them. It could be anything, like a magical effect springing into existence over the pit trap. You have no idea what's happening. When the DM tells you to roll Athletics, you do.
If the DM then explains what's happening and they get the rules wrong, you can and should explain what the rules say. Note my language: this is for when the DM makes an honest mistake. The DM can and should override the RAW as they see fit, but they should be aware that they're doing it and how they're doing it - it's in everyone's best interest to make sure they know what the RAW is if they want to house rule.
Your DM sounds problematic as well - "I don't care, I'm the DM." is an insufficient explanation.
So suppose, in this example, nothing weird is happening - there are no magical force effects pushing you down into the pit, etc. Your DM tells you to roll and you roll a 4, the minimum possible for your scenario. The DM tells you "you fall in the pit because you don't jump far enough". You should respond along the lines of, "Just so you know, the jumping rules say I can clear an 8 foot jump - are you changing the jump rules?" And then the DM should clarify - could be "Ooops, I didn't mean to!" or "Yes, the jumping rules now work like X." In either case, a good DM will tell you what the rules are. So even if the DM is houseruling how long jumps operate, you as a player should be entitled to know how long jumps operate in their campaign.
Ah fair enough. Thank you! I'll be sure to take this thought process into my games going forward!
Yeah, the DM can choose to change the rules or decide that conditions give the task a chance of failure. The DM should tell you beforehand if they change the rules and hopefully tell you after if there was weird conditions.
You can (and should) point out what the rules in the book says, but it isn't your job to argue if they don't follow it.
Also be careful about how you are intepreting the rules - for example, if you are doing a standing long jump, a high jump, or trying to add the jump distance onto a move (i.e., you cannot move + jump more than your total Move on a turn), then you may need an Athletics check to complete the action. DMs do make mistakes, but they also can have a different understanding of the circumstances than you do.
Also be careful about how you are intepreting the rules - for example, if you are doing a standing long jump, a high jump, or trying to add the jump distance onto a move (i.e., you cannot move + jump more than your total Move on a turn), then you may need an Athletics check to complete the action. DMs do make mistakes, but they also can have a different understanding of the circumstances than you do.
A Strength of 16 means they could clear 8 feet with a standing long jump, and it sounds like the DM wasn't trying to justify the need for the check with anything more than "I'm the DM, that's why". That's the kind of thing that makes me consider whether it's the right group for me.
A scenario I found myself in the other day. Theres a 5ft pitfall trap in front of me. I'm playing a fighter with a strength score of 16. I say "okay I'll make a long jump to clear it" to which my dm tells me to make an athletics check. Confused I tell them "well no I can just clear this with the long jump mechanic" to which I essentially got the age old "I dont care, I'm the dm." Needless to say I fell in the hole despite RAW stating this is a distance I can easily clear. Am I in the wrong for questioning my DM's choice?
Imo you shouldn't have had to make a check doing this unless you were under debilitating conditions of extreme combat stress or exhaustion etc. It's certainly not RAW or RAI that he made you roll.
I certainly wouldn't have made you roll for such a simple jump. Perhaps the DM forgot about jump mechanics and was annoyed that you could just jump over.
I wonder if he's the type that let's acrobatics substitute for athletics.
A scenario I found myself in the other day. Theres a 5ft pitfall trap in front of me. I'm playing a fighter with a strength score of 16. I say "okay I'll make a long jump to clear it" to which my dm tells me to make an athletics check. Confused I tell them "well no I can just clear this with the long jump mechanic" to which I essentially got the age old "I dont care, I'm the dm." Needless to say I fell in the hole despite RAW stating this is a distance I can easily clear. Am I in the wrong for questioning my DM's choice?
You're both in the wrong. You never respond to the DM telling you to make an ability check by arguing with them. It could be anything, like a magical effect springing into existence over the pit trap. You have no idea what's happening. When the DM tells you to roll Athletics, you do.
If the DM then explains what's happening and they get the rules wrong, you can and should explain what the rules say. Note my language: this is for when the DM makes an honest mistake. The DM can and should override the RAW as they see fit, but they should be aware that they're doing it and how they're doing it - it's in everyone's best interest to make sure they know what the RAW is if they want to house rule.
Your DM sounds problematic as well - "I don't care, I'm the DM." is an insufficient explanation.
So suppose, in this example, nothing weird is happening - there are no magical force effects pushing you down into the pit, etc. Your DM tells you to roll and you roll a 4, the minimum possible for your scenario. The DM tells you "you fall in the pit because you don't jump far enough". You should respond along the lines of, "Just so you know, the jumping rules say I can clear an 8 foot jump - are you changing the jump rules?" And then the DM should clarify - could be "Ooops, I didn't mean to!" or "Yes, the jumping rules now work like X." In either case, a good DM will tell you what the rules are. So even if the DM is houseruling how long jumps operate, you as a player should be entitled to know how long jumps operate in their campaign.
Ah fair enough. Thank you! I'll be sure to take this thought process into my games going forward!
Yeah, the DM can choose to change the rules or decide that conditions give the task a chance of failure. The DM should tell you beforehand if they change the rules and hopefully tell you after if there was weird conditions.
You can (and should) point out what the rules in the book says, but it isn't your job to argue if they don't follow it.
Also be careful about how you are intepreting the rules - for example, if you are doing a standing long jump, a high jump, or trying to add the jump distance onto a move (i.e., you cannot move + jump more than your total Move on a turn), then you may need an Athletics check to complete the action. DMs do make mistakes, but they also can have a different understanding of the circumstances than you do.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
A Strength of 16 means they could clear 8 feet with a standing long jump, and it sounds like the DM wasn't trying to justify the need for the check with anything more than "I'm the DM, that's why". That's the kind of thing that makes me consider whether it's the right group for me.
Imo you shouldn't have had to make a check doing this unless you were under debilitating conditions of extreme combat stress or exhaustion etc. It's certainly not RAW or RAI that he made you roll.
I certainly wouldn't have made you roll for such a simple jump. Perhaps the DM forgot about jump mechanics and was annoyed that you could just jump over.
I wonder if he's the type that let's acrobatics substitute for athletics.
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