Is it possible to, for example, wear a set of leather armor under a set of medium or heavy armor, like full plate?
To be clear, I'm not talking about adding the light armors Ac to the heavy ac, as l know you can only have one source of ac active at a time, with the highest being used (like a draconic sorcerer getting a natural ac of 13, but if they're a tortle they use the shells 18 ac, or a monk/barbarian not being able to stack unarmored defence)
What i'm asking (which now that l think about it, might make this fit more in "tips and tactics") is, could a set of leather or studed leather armor fit under another set of armor, like plate, so that you can stay somewhat armored even after doffing your full plate?
Short answer I think would be no, you can only wear one suit of armor at a time. While plate and heavier armors may include layers of leather or other material which may resemble lighter armor in its own right - but those layers are not separate functioning suits of armor. And even light armor will include some limb and joint protection which, while maintaining mobility as much as possible, will undoubtedly become a bulky mess if you tried to put another second set of armor over the top.
Still not sure what benefit you're looking for. Donning and doffing takes enough time to make it a non-combat activity, but if you want to switch armor from heavy to light then that is not much longer a change than heavy to nothing.
D&D does have something akin to equipment slots in the rules (outerwear, headwear, arms, feet, torso, etc). I'm pretty sure armor would fill a slot (torso minimum) and you couldn't fit a second set over it.
Most Medium and Heavy armors are built over other materials which very well may be some sort of padded or leather materials. Those would be considered part of the armor itself so 1) they probably couldn't be separated out, and 2) they would preclude wearing any sort of lesser padded or leather armor "under" the medium/heavy setup.
Other than the common sense answers you’re getting, there are rules in the DMG Chapter 7 about Magic items that preclude wearing multiple sets of armor, which could be read as being more about physical inability to wear more armor than a specific problem with Magic interference. (Apologies, on my phone so can’t effectively link or quote block).
“A character can’t normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of headwear, and one cloak....”
So, no, a character can’t normally wear more than one suit of armor.
I used to try something similar in an old campaign where the DM was super picky about rests and equipment, giving us penalty and exhaustion if we were sleeping in medium or heavy armor. The problem is that it was common for us to be assaulted at night and fighting without any protection when you are not a Barbarian or Monk is super dangerous.
The solution? I started using a studded leather as my pijamas. Light armor doesn’t impact in rests and at least it was +2 AC in case we were caught in surprise at night.
would be a nice tactic if your getting heat metaled constantly for some odd reason. Cast-Off plate armor, with some studded leather underneath to help out after. I like it.
As others have said metallic arm ours have under layers and are form fitted so no you can’t wear 2 different armors at the same time.
EXCEPT:
CLOAKS - there is historical evidence of leather and fine chain lined cloaks worn over armor or regular clothing. Earlier editions actually made some mention of being able to put elven chain into a cloak and if elven chain can go then Mithril chain should as well. In addition the AC would stack with the armor just as a shield stacks or as a cloak of protection stacks.
you want some sort of armor when your plate is off? A leather stiffened or light chain lined cloak would work. You will have to home brew it bit but it’s fairly workable especially if you keep encumbrance in mind. In my campaign the cloak adds 1 less AC than the armor because of the openness of the cloak (so a cuir boilli cloak doesn’t really do anything).
As others have said metallic arm ours have under layers and are form fitted so no you can’t wear 2 different armors at the same time.
EXCEPT:
CLOAKS - there is historical evidence of leather and fine chain lined cloaks worn over armor or regular clothing. Earlier editions actually made some mention of being able to put elven chain into a cloak and if elven chain can go then Mithril chain should as well. In addition the AC would stack with the armor just as a shield stacks or as a cloak of protection stacks.
you want some sort of armor when your plate is off? A leather stiffened or light chain lined cloak would work. You will have to home brew it bit but it’s fairly workable especially if you keep encumbrance in mind. In my campaign the cloak adds 1 less AC than the armor because of the openness of the cloak (so a cuir boilli cloak doesn’t really do anything).
In 5E, armor doesn't add anything to AC, it provides a new way to calculate AC, so you'd have to homebrew from scratch how much AC to "add" from such a cloak. There are fundamentally 3 such calculations available from manufactured armor, and I'll include the base one that gets replaced:
Light or No Armor: Your AC is X + Dexterity modifier.
Medium Armor: Your AC is X + Dexterity modifier (maximum 2).
Heavy Armor: Your AC is X.
See how all of them use the word "is"? So if you wear a cloak that functions like leather armor but 1 worse, the cloak does nothing at all, because the X for leather is 11, so one worse would be 10 - which is the same as No Armor.
The light / medium / heavy armor sets the base armor with or without dexterity. Certain magic items then add to this base. A few spells also add to the base while others set a base value.
Magic cloaks are one of the items that add to armor class. Historically this was pretty much the same. Light armours were light and very flexible but didn’t give much protection, heavier armours gave better protection but were more limiting in the range of actions and movements you could take. Again cloaks could add an additional layer of protection specifically because they went on over everything else so a cloak lined with fine Chainmail would increase the protection of the person wearing it. It would also increase the weight so full weight mail was probably never used. Also, because the cloak is often open, billowing, has sleeves or arm slits etc it is never going to provide the same protection as a suite of even fine mail would. The original post was about layering armours and the cloak is the one time when adding it’s layer MIGHT not only be possible but ALSO might have an impact on the character’s AC. I know of nothing in the RAW that prohibits this, but also nothing that speaks to it directly so I was offering some home brew ideas that have worked fairly well with my characters and in my campaigns.
I pointed out that a leather lined cloak is really just a cloak; but take apart the panels of a Mithril chain shirt and use them to line a cloak and that becomes a different story. How you/your DM handle it is up to you and your DM. I have found that allowing such a cloak to add +2 to the AC while perhaps limiting the Dex bonus to +2 as a chain shirt does appear to be reasonable.
Padded armour is essentially gambeson. So if you doff your heavy, metal armour... should you not still technically have AC11+Dex due to the gambeson that you have not removed?
I know RAW the answer is "no" since padded armour is its own, completely separate armour type. It just thought it was interesting.
I could see a reasonable houserule where doffing heavy armour leaves you with AC11+Dex from the gambeson without being gamebreaking.
Padded armour is essentially gambeson. So if you doff your heavy, metal armour... should you not still technically have AC11+Dex due to the gambeson that you have not removed?
I know RAW the answer is "no" since padded armour is its own, completely separate armour type. It just thought it was interesting.
I could see a reasonable houserule where doffing heavy armour leaves you with AC11+Dex from the gambeson without being gamebreaking.
Well, the RAW answer would actually be "no" because donning and doffing heavy armor would include the gambeson.
Other than the common sense answers you’re getting, there are rules in the DMG Chapter 7 about Magic items that preclude wearing multiple sets of armor, which could be read as being more about physical inability to wear more armor than a specific problem with Magic interference. (Apologies, on my phone so can’t effectively link or quote block).
“A character can’t normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of headwear, and one cloak....”
So, no, a character can’t normally wear more than one suit of armor.
A character can't normally wear more than one suit of armor ... however, there are some items that a DM can allow a character to wear multiples of ...
Here is the full rule from the DMG:
"MULTIPLE ITEMS OF THE SAME KIND Use common sense to determine whether more than one of a given kind of magic item can be worn. A character can't normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of head wear, and one cloak. You can make exceptions; a character might be able to wear a circlet under a helmet, for example, or be able to layer two cloaks."
So there may be cases where multiple items could be worn. A DM could rule that a mithril chain shirt or elven chain (if you use the Tolkien version) could be worn under clothing or under leather armor for example. DM call.
Similarly, wearing multiple cloaks, headbands under helms and other possibilities could be options depending on what items are involved and what the goal of the character is in wearing layered items.
However, most heavier armor is form fitted so that the character is protected and can move easily in it. This usually means that you can't fit armor under armor as the OP was suggesting. On the other hand, it would be a DM call whether a character could wear a pair of thin silk gloves under gauntlets or other similar combinations.
Other than the common sense answers you’re getting, there are rules in the DMG Chapter 7 about Magic items that preclude wearing multiple sets of armor, which could be read as being more about physical inability to wear more armor than a specific problem with Magic interference. (Apologies, on my phone so can’t effectively link or quote block).
“A character can’t normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of headwear, and one cloak....”
So, no, a character can’t normally wear more than one suit of armor.
A character can't normally wear more than one suit of armor ... however, there are some items that a DM can allow a character to wear multiples of ...
Here is the full rule from the DMG:
"MULTIPLE ITEMS OF THE SAME KIND Use common sense to determine whether more than one of a given kind of magic item can be worn. A character can't normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of head wear, and one cloak. You can make exceptions; a character might be able to wear a circlet under a helmet, for example, or be able to layer two cloaks."
So there may be cases where multiple items could be worn. A DM could rule that a mithril chain shirt or elven chain (if you use the Tolkien version) could be worn under clothing or under leather armor for example. DM call.
Similarly, wearing multiple cloaks, headbands under helms and other possibilities could be options depending on what items are involved and what the goal of the character is in wearing layered items.
However, most heavier armor is form fitted so that the character is protected and can move easily in it. This usually means that you can't fit armor under armor as the OP was suggesting. On the other hand, it would be a DM call whether a character could wear a pair of thin silk gloves under gauntlets or other similar combinations.
I don't think there is anything wrong here, but in most of these cases, the end result would be no benefit to AC that the OP was wanting. Mithral Chain or Chain Shirts are going to meet or exceed the AC of most light armors (except Studded leather and DEX 20) so there would not be any reason to layer them in the vast majority of cases, and the gloves, circlets, cloaks, headbands, etc don't carry inherent AC calcs or bonuses by themselves (except for bonuses from magic versions of same).
Whether its RAW or not, I do agree that it's pretty straightforward to understand how you'd calculate AC using the heaviest layer worn, so if a player wants to track three suits of armor (Studded + Chain Shirt + Plate), and count all of their weight, and their cumulative don/doff times... certainly won't cause any rule problems, until you start wondering if they can benefit from three different armor enchantments, or just that of the heaviest layer. "You can make exceptions..." does a lot of work in that DMG section, as usual, if a DM wants to step beyond the general recommendation that "you can't normally" do this.
i went on a deployment and some days I would wear both a traditional bullet-proof vest with a shock plate in the front, and a flak jacket. i was basically a turtle...couldn't reach behind my back, couldn't reach to the opposite side in front of me either...say I needed a magazine in an ammo pouch on the left side of my chest or on my left hip and my right hand was free...that magazine was effectively out of reach. Mobility and dexterity were HUGELY hindered. I would allow a character to wear leather armor under plate, but with a -10 dexterity bonus. whatever is added in pure armor thickness is more than fully negated by the fact that they can no longer parry/dodge/deflect/etc, effectively
If the effect is armor under plate armor I would say padded armor would be it. Padded armor = gambeson. Gambeson is what is under plate/chain armor anyway.
anybody who says their characters are in heavy armors all day long even during night time... have never wore a full plate in their entire life ! yes you could theoretically sleep in full plate. it snot as uncomfortable as they say it is. so there should be no downside to sleeping in heavy armor.
that said... heavy armors are pretty bulky, it turns out pretty god darn harsh weather wise on th econditions inside the armor. sweat is a problem, heat is a problem. if anything sleeping in heavy armor might make you develop physical problems down the lines. hence why people remove armor, any kind of armor to go to sleep. this is also why there are people making rounds during the night shifts. so that others can have time to don on and off their armor between shifts.
see it like this... do you keep your socks on all week long ? if yes what problems arises once you do ? i cna tlel you, my personnal experience is... the moisture in my socks makes my skin itch and crack over time. now imagine the guy wearing full plate and wearing it at all time ? does that mean he should have no consequences for doing so ?
now imagine the same for leather armor, even if the rules allows you to sleep in leather armor with no problem at all... does this still mean you can wear it every single minute of your life ?
sorry but my players will have to deal with disease and physical problems like itching who gives you disadvantage until you take care of it in the proper way.
so to answer your question, knowing all the above... i'd say they can in some ways. though not with full plate. full plates already have paddings and are designed for you to be almost naked undrneath it with clothing over it. having played medieval games with real elements, i can tell you the guys who had a whole day in full plate was more then happy to remove it when it was time to go to sleep. let alone wear another type of armor afterward.
so knowing all those, i'd say... it would be useless to do so... just keep the armor set attched to the backpack and when its time to sleep, remove the full plate and take a minute to put the other armor on. that's what ? 6 minutes to remove and put on the whole thing ?!! thats a big difference unless you think the opponent is waiting for that very time and at that point... the DM should of asked for a perception check long ago.
its also worth noting that a magical shield does gives you its bonus even if the shield is not equipped correctly. but doesn't give you the original +2. though it is an action to equip a shield so its not a big trouble.
DM of two gaming groups. Likes to create stuff. Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games --> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
My dm allowed me to wear chain mail/plate because I was a fighter who was a knight. It makes sense. The only con was I had AC 23 rather than 34. I was level 12 so it was more appropriate to wear heavier armour.
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Is it possible to, for example, wear a set of leather armor under a set of medium or heavy armor, like full plate?
To be clear, I'm not talking about adding the light armors Ac to the heavy ac, as l know you can only have one source of ac active at a time, with the highest being used (like a draconic sorcerer getting a natural ac of 13, but if they're a tortle they use the shells 18 ac, or a monk/barbarian not being able to stack unarmored defence)
What i'm asking (which now that l think about it, might make this fit more in "tips and tactics") is, could a set of leather or studed leather armor fit under another set of armor, like plate, so that you can stay somewhat armored even after doffing your full plate?
Short answer I think would be no, you can only wear one suit of armor at a time. While plate and heavier armors may include layers of leather or other material which may resemble lighter armor in its own right - but those layers are not separate functioning suits of armor. And even light armor will include some limb and joint protection which, while maintaining mobility as much as possible, will undoubtedly become a bulky mess if you tried to put another second set of armor over the top.
Still not sure what benefit you're looking for. Donning and doffing takes enough time to make it a non-combat activity, but if you want to switch armor from heavy to light then that is not much longer a change than heavy to nothing.
No. Heavier armors already have something like leather gambesons because otherwise they would chafe like crazy.
D&D does have something akin to equipment slots in the rules (outerwear, headwear, arms, feet, torso, etc). I'm pretty sure armor would fill a slot (torso minimum) and you couldn't fit a second set over it.
[Edit]Yeah, what CC is about to say.
Most Medium and Heavy armors are built over other materials which very well may be some sort of padded or leather materials. Those would be considered part of the armor itself so 1) they probably couldn't be separated out, and 2) they would preclude wearing any sort of lesser padded or leather armor "under" the medium/heavy setup.
Other than the common sense answers you’re getting, there are rules in the DMG Chapter 7 about Magic items that preclude wearing multiple sets of armor, which could be read as being more about physical inability to wear more armor than a specific problem with Magic interference. (Apologies, on my phone so can’t effectively link or quote block).
“A character can’t normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of headwear, and one cloak....”
So, no, a character can’t normally wear more than one suit of armor.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I used to try something similar in an old campaign where the DM was super picky about rests and equipment, giving us penalty and exhaustion if we were sleeping in medium or heavy armor. The problem is that it was common for us to be assaulted at night and fighting without any protection when you are not a Barbarian or Monk is super dangerous.
The solution? I started using a studded leather as my pijamas. Light armor doesn’t impact in rests and at least it was +2 AC in case we were caught in surprise at night.
would be a nice tactic if your getting heat metaled constantly for some odd reason. Cast-Off plate armor, with some studded leather underneath to help out after. I like it.
As others have said metallic arm ours have under layers and are form fitted so no you can’t wear 2 different armors at the same time.
EXCEPT:
CLOAKS - there is historical evidence of leather and fine chain lined cloaks worn over armor or regular clothing. Earlier editions actually made some mention of being able to put elven chain into a cloak and if elven chain can go then Mithril chain should as well. In addition the AC would stack with the armor just as a shield stacks or as a cloak of protection stacks.
you want some sort of armor when your plate is off? A leather stiffened or light chain lined cloak would work. You will have to home brew it bit but it’s fairly workable especially if you keep encumbrance in mind. In my campaign the cloak adds 1 less AC than the armor because of the openness of the cloak (so a cuir boilli cloak doesn’t really do anything).
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
In 5E, armor doesn't add anything to AC, it provides a new way to calculate AC, so you'd have to homebrew from scratch how much AC to "add" from such a cloak. There are fundamentally 3 such calculations available from manufactured armor, and I'll include the base one that gets replaced:
Light or No Armor: Your AC is X + Dexterity modifier.
Medium Armor: Your AC is X + Dexterity modifier (maximum 2).
Heavy Armor: Your AC is X.
See how all of them use the word "is"? So if you wear a cloak that functions like leather armor but 1 worse, the cloak does nothing at all, because the X for leather is 11, so one worse would be 10 - which is the same as No Armor.
The light / medium / heavy armor sets the base armor with or without dexterity. Certain magic items then add to this base. A few spells also add to the base while others set a base value.
Magic cloaks are one of the items that add to armor class. Historically this was pretty much the same. Light armours were light and very flexible but didn’t give much protection, heavier armours gave better protection but were more limiting in the range of actions and movements you could take. Again cloaks could add an additional layer of protection specifically because they went on over everything else so a cloak lined with fine Chainmail would increase the protection of the person wearing it. It would also increase the weight so full weight mail was probably never used. Also, because the cloak is often open, billowing, has sleeves or arm slits etc it is never going to provide the same protection as a suite of even fine mail would. The original post was about layering armours and the cloak is the one time when adding it’s layer MIGHT not only be possible but ALSO might have an impact on the character’s AC. I know of nothing in the RAW that prohibits this, but also nothing that speaks to it directly so I was offering some home brew ideas that have worked fairly well with my characters and in my campaigns.
I pointed out that a leather lined cloak is really just a cloak; but take apart the panels of a Mithril chain shirt and use them to line a cloak and that becomes a different story. How you/your DM handle it is up to you and your DM. I have found that allowing such a cloak to add +2 to the AC while perhaps limiting the Dex bonus to +2 as a chain shirt does appear to be reasonable.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
This brings up an interesting note:
Padded - Equipment - D&D Beyond (dndbeyond.com)
Padded armour is essentially gambeson. So if you doff your heavy, metal armour... should you not still technically have AC11+Dex due to the gambeson that you have not removed?
I know RAW the answer is "no" since padded armour is its own, completely separate armour type. It just thought it was interesting.
I could see a reasonable houserule where doffing heavy armour leaves you with AC11+Dex from the gambeson without being gamebreaking.
Well, the RAW answer would actually be "no" because donning and doffing heavy armor would include the gambeson.
A character can't normally wear more than one suit of armor ... however, there are some items that a DM can allow a character to wear multiples of ...
Here is the full rule from the DMG:
"MULTIPLE ITEMS OF THE SAME KIND
Use common sense to determine whether more than one of a given kind of magic item can be worn. A character can't normally wear more than one pair of footwear, one pair of gloves or gauntlets, one pair of bracers, one suit of armor, one item of head wear, and one cloak. You can make exceptions; a character might be able to wear a circlet under a helmet, for example, or be able to layer two cloaks."
So there may be cases where multiple items could be worn. A DM could rule that a mithril chain shirt or elven chain (if you use the Tolkien version) could be worn under clothing or under leather armor for example. DM call.
Similarly, wearing multiple cloaks, headbands under helms and other possibilities could be options depending on what items are involved and what the goal of the character is in wearing layered items.
However, most heavier armor is form fitted so that the character is protected and can move easily in it. This usually means that you can't fit armor under armor as the OP was suggesting. On the other hand, it would be a DM call whether a character could wear a pair of thin silk gloves under gauntlets or other similar combinations.
I don't think there is anything wrong here, but in most of these cases, the end result would be no benefit to AC that the OP was wanting. Mithral Chain or Chain Shirts are going to meet or exceed the AC of most light armors (except Studded leather and DEX 20) so there would not be any reason to layer them in the vast majority of cases, and the gloves, circlets, cloaks, headbands, etc don't carry inherent AC calcs or bonuses by themselves (except for bonuses from magic versions of same).
Whether its RAW or not, I do agree that it's pretty straightforward to understand how you'd calculate AC using the heaviest layer worn, so if a player wants to track three suits of armor (Studded + Chain Shirt + Plate), and count all of their weight, and their cumulative don/doff times... certainly won't cause any rule problems, until you start wondering if they can benefit from three different armor enchantments, or just that of the heaviest layer. "You can make exceptions..." does a lot of work in that DMG section, as usual, if a DM wants to step beyond the general recommendation that "you can't normally" do this.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
i went on a deployment and some days I would wear both a traditional bullet-proof vest with a shock plate in the front, and a flak jacket. i was basically a turtle...couldn't reach behind my back, couldn't reach to the opposite side in front of me either...say I needed a magazine in an ammo pouch on the left side of my chest or on my left hip and my right hand was free...that magazine was effectively out of reach. Mobility and dexterity were HUGELY hindered. I would allow a character to wear leather armor under plate, but with a -10 dexterity bonus. whatever is added in pure armor thickness is more than fully negated by the fact that they can no longer parry/dodge/deflect/etc, effectively
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
If the effect is armor under plate armor I would say padded armor would be it. Padded armor = gambeson. Gambeson is what is under plate/chain armor anyway.
anybody who says their characters are in heavy armors all day long even during night time... have never wore a full plate in their entire life !
yes you could theoretically sleep in full plate. it snot as uncomfortable as they say it is. so there should be no downside to sleeping in heavy armor.
that said... heavy armors are pretty bulky, it turns out pretty god darn harsh weather wise on th econditions inside the armor. sweat is a problem, heat is a problem.
if anything sleeping in heavy armor might make you develop physical problems down the lines. hence why people remove armor, any kind of armor to go to sleep. this is also why there are people making rounds during the night shifts. so that others can have time to don on and off their armor between shifts.
see it like this...
do you keep your socks on all week long ? if yes what problems arises once you do ?
i cna tlel you, my personnal experience is... the moisture in my socks makes my skin itch and crack over time.
now imagine the guy wearing full plate and wearing it at all time ?
does that mean he should have no consequences for doing so ?
now imagine the same for leather armor, even if the rules allows you to sleep in leather armor with no problem at all... does this still mean you can wear it every single minute of your life ?
sorry but my players will have to deal with disease and physical problems like itching who gives you disadvantage until you take care of it in the proper way.
so to answer your question, knowing all the above...
i'd say they can in some ways. though not with full plate. full plates already have paddings and are designed for you to be almost naked undrneath it with clothing over it. having played medieval games with real elements, i can tell you the guys who had a whole day in full plate was more then happy to remove it when it was time to go to sleep. let alone wear another type of armor afterward.
so knowing all those, i'd say... it would be useless to do so... just keep the armor set attched to the backpack and when its time to sleep, remove the full plate and take a minute to put the other armor on. that's what ? 6 minutes to remove and put on the whole thing ?!! thats a big difference unless you think the opponent is waiting for that very time and at that point... the DM should of asked for a perception check long ago.
its also worth noting that a magical shield does gives you its bonus even if the shield is not equipped correctly. but doesn't give you the original +2. though it is an action to equip a shield so its not a big trouble.
DM of two gaming groups.
Likes to create stuff.
Check out my homebrew --> Monsters --> Magical Items --> Races --> Subclasses
If you like --> Upvote, If you wanna comment --> Comment
Play by Post Games
--> One Shot Adventure - House of Artwood (DM) (Completed)
My dm allowed me to wear chain mail/plate because I was a fighter who was a knight. It makes sense. The only con was I had AC 23 rather than 34. I was level 12 so it was more appropriate to wear heavier armour.