Per the PHB, elves cannnot be magically induced to sleep:
You have advantage on saving throws against being charmed, and magic can’t put you to sleep.
But do the rules of the game differentiate between being put to sleep vs being knocked unconscious?
I'm thinking specifically of creatures with an ability to do just that, such as the pseudodragon's stingaction:
If the saving throw fails by 5 or more, the target falls unconscious for the same duration, or until it takes damage or another creature uses an action to wake it.
So can an elf fall unconscious through poison or a magical effect? Is the choice of wording deliberate here, or is this just a case of synonyms and elves are immune to it all?
Sleep is a proper subset of unconscious - elves aren't flat immune to all unconsciousness, or the rules would explode when one of them drops to 0 hit points. Elves are specifically immune to effects that specifically state they inflict sleep (or, of course, effects that only work on sleeping targets). In practice, so far as I know, this only means Elves are immune to sleep and dream, although anything else that specifically uses the word "sleep" would also interact. For example, drow poison works on drow, since it inflicts unconsciousness, not sleep.
In other words, sleep implies unconscious, but unconscious does not imply sleep.
That makes sense. This would also mean that elves are susceptible to poisons that could knock them unconscious, yes?
Yes. Like I said in my post, drow poison works on drow. All of these poisons work on elves:
Drow Poison (as well as the poison in a homunculus bite)
Essence of Ether
Oil of Taggit
Meanwhile, the sleep ray (number 7) of the beholder won't work on elves. The sleep breath of an ancient brass dragonwill work on elves, as it doesn't actually inflict sleep (it's also not magical, unlike the beholder ray).
Are there any magical effects that cause unconsciousness that aren't sleep? None come to mind.
Elves would theoretically be vulnerable to such effects if they do exist.
Eyebite and Symbol both have the ability to knock a target unconscious using effects named after sleep (Asleep and Sleep, respectively) that don't actually state they render the target asleep, so both should work on elves, in the same way a spell named "DJC's Greater Sleep" whose rules text says "the target must make a Wisdom save; on a failure, it falls prone and starts audibly snoring" wouldn't actually put the target to sleep, despite the name.
Are there any magical effects that cause unconsciousness that aren't sleep? None come to mind.
Elves would theoretically be vulnerable to such effects if they do exist.
Eyebite and Symbol both have the ability to knock a target unconscious using effects named after sleep (Asleep and Sleep, respectively) that don't actually state they render the target asleep, so both should work on elves, in the same way a spell named "DJC's Greater Sleep" whose rules text says "the target must make a Wisdom save; on a failure, it falls prone and starts audibly snoring" wouldn't actually put the target to sleep, despite the name.
Eyebite calls the target the sleeper, so...
I'm pretty sure both of these are intended to not work on targets immune to sleep.
Are there any effects that make no reference to sleeping at all?
I'm pretty sure both of these are intended to not work on targets immune to sleep.
Are there any effects that make no reference to sleeping at all?
Good catch. I would also assume from the word "sleeper" that it won't work on elves, since an elf can't be a sleeper.
As I mentioned in my post earlier, the sleep ray of a beholder or death tyrant won't work on elves. That's a magical, sleep-inducing effect, just not a spell.
While researching more i found that en elf is immune to gentle lullaby Satyr Pipe magical effect that put to sleep, but not to a brass dragon sleep breath (Jeremy Crawford states it's not magical)
While I very much like and ascribe to the chain of through that treats "sleep" as a subtype of "unconscious," we must keep in mind that there is no "Asleep" condition apart from Unconscious in the way that Paralyzed is a more-specific type of Incapacitated. Do absolutely check for something describing "sleep" in the spell name and description. But requiring a very specific wording like "slumber" to appear in the description even if it's already in the name is probably burdensome (Catnap), as is requiring "sleep" to appear in a specific part of a spell description when it's already there is another (Eyebite, Symbol).
Elves are not immune to all magical unconsciousness, or to non-magical sleep. But if it's a spell, and it's reasonably understood to be making a target sleep based on the spell's name or spell description, it's a "sleep"-type effect. Crawford is being unnecessarily pedantic.
And that is a perfect example of why I do not take most of his rulings as carrying any meaningful weight.
I definitely don't fault anyone for not simply accepting rulings, but I do think all rulings should be taken into consideration. It can shed light onto the wording of the RAW (when it isn't adding something completely absent).
Catnap uses "awake," and "awake" is not normally used to contrast "unconscious" but rather "asleep." Not ironclad, you certainly can awaken from unconsciousness, but... I think you give the plain language gurus at WoTC more credit than I do that their word choice is always intentional.
Catnap uses "awake," and "awake" is not normally used to contrast "unconscious" but rather "asleep." Not ironclad, you certainly can awaken from unconsciousness, but... I think you give the plain language gurus at WoTC more credit than I do that their word choice is always intentional.
Doing a quick search, it seems "awake" is also used for unconscious inducing poisons (ie sprite, pseudodragon, Drow, couatl).
But yeah, every other type of unconsciousness not sleep or poison just says "end the condition".
Of those monsters you've cited, one specifies sleep in their creature description, if not in the short statblock itself.
Sprite: "...stung with poisoned arrows and lulled into a senseless sleep.... sprites brew toxins, unguents, antidotes, and poisons, including the sleep poison with which they coat their arrows."
Pseudodragon: "If it is attacked, a pseudodragon fights back using the poisonous stinger at the tip of its tail, one jab of which can put a creature into a catatonic state that can last for hours."
Drow: "Drow mages concoct a viscid toxin that leaves enemies unconscious."
Coutatl: [no description]
So yes, 5E certainly doesn't use "awaken" for only sleep effects (I meant in plain-English, not in 5E text), but indirectly you've pointed out another way that 5E can be inconsistent about whether it remembers to specify that sleep is "sleep" in ability descriptions, because the Sprite "unconscious" should be "sleep."
Except you're quoting the flavor text, not the actual stat block. The stat block seems to deliberately used the word unconscious, not "asleep" or a synonym:
Sting. Melee Weapon Attack: +4 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 4 (1d4 + 2) piercing damage, and the target must succeed on a DC 11 Constitution saving throw or become poisoned for 1 hour. If the saving throw fails by 5 or more, the target falls unconscious for the same duration, or until it takes damage or another creature uses an action to shake it awake.
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Per the PHB, elves cannnot be magically induced to sleep:
But do the rules of the game differentiate between being put to sleep vs being knocked unconscious?
I'm thinking specifically of creatures with an ability to do just that, such as the pseudodragon's sting action:
So can an elf fall unconscious through poison or a magical effect? Is the choice of wording deliberate here, or is this just a case of synonyms and elves are immune to it all?
Sleep is a proper subset of unconscious - elves aren't flat immune to all unconsciousness, or the rules would explode when one of them drops to 0 hit points. Elves are specifically immune to effects that specifically state they inflict sleep (or, of course, effects that only work on sleeping targets). In practice, so far as I know, this only means Elves are immune to sleep and dream, although anything else that specifically uses the word "sleep" would also interact. For example, drow poison works on drow, since it inflicts unconsciousness, not sleep.
In other words, sleep implies unconscious, but unconscious does not imply sleep.
That makes sense. This would also mean that elves are susceptible to poisons that could knock them unconscious, yes?
Yes, unless that that poison was somehow magical effect that put to sleep.
An elf is also not immune to effect that put to sleep that aren't magic, such as sleep poison etc.
Yes. Like I said in my post, drow poison works on drow. All of these poisons work on elves:
Meanwhile, the sleep ray (number 7) of the beholder won't work on elves. The sleep breath of an ancient brass dragon will work on elves, as it doesn't actually inflict sleep (it's also not magical, unlike the beholder ray).
Are there any magical effects that cause unconsciousness that aren't sleep? None come to mind.
Elves would theoretically be vulnerable to such effects if they do exist.
Eyebite and Symbol both have the ability to knock a target unconscious using effects named after sleep (Asleep and Sleep, respectively) that don't actually state they render the target asleep, so both should work on elves, in the same way a spell named "DJC's Greater Sleep" whose rules text says "the target must make a Wisdom save; on a failure, it falls prone and starts audibly snoring" wouldn't actually put the target to sleep, despite the name.
Eyebite calls the target the sleeper, so...
I'm pretty sure both of these are intended to not work on targets immune to sleep.
Are there any effects that make no reference to sleeping at all?
Good catch. I would also assume from the word "sleeper" that it won't work on elves, since an elf can't be a sleeper.
As I mentioned in my post earlier, the sleep ray of a beholder or death tyrant won't work on elves. That's a magical, sleep-inducing effect, just not a spell.
The spell Catnap and some magical Madness effect can cause unconcious without being referred to sleep.
While researching more i found that en elf is immune to gentle lullaby Satyr Pipe magical effect that put to sleep, but not to a brass dragon sleep breath (Jeremy Crawford states it's not magical)
That might technically be true, but I think any DM who ruled that Catnap didn't make you sleep would be out of their mind.
Sometimes you just have to recognize what the fiction is supposed to be and roll with that.
EDIT While Catnap doesn't expressely call for sleep, it only mention to awake and the word nap. So one could think elf could be immune but it doesn't actually call for sleep and Jeremy Crawford also confirmed it was not immune on his Twitter. https://www.sageadvice.eu/catnap-spell-are-elves-unable-to-be-affected-by-it-even-willingly/
@Awmuth My group is discussing the Catnap spell; are elves unable to be affected by it, even willingly?
@JeremyECrawford Elves aren't immune to the unconscious condition.
@Awmuth But they can't be put to sleep by magic. Is the effect of the catnap spell not magic or not sleep?
@JeremyECrawford Nowhere does the catnap spell say it puts you to sleep.
@DrFro_2005 But the unconscious effect in the sleep spell is viewed as sleep? Vs catnap being unconscious
@JeremyECrawford The sleep spell refers to slumber. Catnap does not.
While I very much like and ascribe to the chain of through that treats "sleep" as a subtype of "unconscious," we must keep in mind that there is no "Asleep" condition apart from Unconscious in the way that Paralyzed is a more-specific type of Incapacitated. Do absolutely check for something describing "sleep" in the spell name and description. But requiring a very specific wording like "slumber" to appear in the description even if it's already in the name is probably burdensome (Catnap), as is requiring "sleep" to appear in a specific part of a spell description when it's already there is another (Eyebite, Symbol).
Elves are not immune to all magical unconsciousness, or to non-magical sleep. But if it's a spell, and it's reasonably understood to be making a target sleep based on the spell's name or spell description, it's a "sleep"-type effect. Crawford is being unnecessarily pedantic.
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I imagine catnap was carefully worded so all PC races could benefit from it. It doesn't mention sleep, speaking, asleep, or sleepers at all.
I definitely don't fault anyone for not simply accepting rulings, but I do think all rulings should be taken into consideration. It can shed light onto the wording of the RAW (when it isn't adding something completely absent).
Catnap uses "awake," and "awake" is not normally used to contrast "unconscious" but rather "asleep." Not ironclad, you certainly can awaken from unconsciousness, but... I think you give the plain language gurus at WoTC more credit than I do that their word choice is always intentional.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Doing a quick search, it seems "awake" is also used for unconscious inducing poisons (ie sprite, pseudodragon, Drow, couatl).
But yeah, every other type of unconsciousness not sleep or poison just says "end the condition".
Of those monsters you've cited, one specifies sleep in their creature description, if not in the short statblock itself.
So yes, 5E certainly doesn't use "awaken" for only sleep effects (I meant in plain-English, not in 5E text), but indirectly you've pointed out another way that 5E can be inconsistent about whether it remembers to specify that sleep is "sleep" in ability descriptions, because the Sprite "unconscious" should be "sleep."
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Except you're quoting the flavor text, not the actual stat block. The stat block seems to deliberately used the word unconscious, not "asleep" or a synonym: