As an experienced player I've seen what each class can do and it feels limited once you've found your favorite classes. So I though of an idea that can help renew multiclassing and add flavor to all classes.
The idea would a second set of class that can only be picked while multiclassing. Here's a few ideas that help draw out what I mean.
For example a shield guardian class where if another player takes a level in it could make a shield wall granting (advantages, +'s, and immunities)
or another could be dancing warriors where two player one next to the other would become blur and similar through illusion granting things like bonus on attack.
The idea is to offer more flexibility and renew the multiclass aspect but also create more interaction between players and how to combat.
This is best placed in the Homebrew forum, as there are no existing rules regarding multi class only classes (although if you are only getting 1-2 abilities, I’d look at selective feats to get what you want)
The idea is too offer flexibility when multiclassing, adding group strategies and allowing more possibilities when building a character. To me the classes are too limited since since I see all casters mostly the same, fighters and supports too. Apart from a the mechanic changing you are a caster weather warlock, wizard, sorcerer and so on...
13 official classes, with about half a dozen sub-classes each is around 78 combinations per class, you can modify them with feats, and you can multi-class with them. That seems pretty flexible to me...
Why does it need to be more interesting? There are literally thousands of combinations available. New ones get added with every sourcebook. What you are suggesting is basically the same as a subclass, which you can get via multiclassing already
to me a caster is a caster and sure each have their own features but ultimately it all comes down to spell. Same with any form of warriors, you hit them with something until they die...
to me a caster is a caster and sure each have their own features but ultimately it all comes down to spell. Same with any form of warriors, you hit them with something until they die...
If you see it so simply, then what would you propose that would be so different? If you have already reduced all classes to just casters and fighters, what would possibly shake up the system that would make it worthwhile?
Well a Summoner for example would be a nice change. But the idea that I propose is a type of complementary class described at the beginning. A class that is meant to be for multiclassing allowing synergy between classes and also between players allowing group strategies.
A Wizard has 13 sub-classes, a Warlock has 9, and a Sorcerer has 7. You don't see a difference? You do realize, that's 2,457 combinations between all of them?
How long have you been playing 5th edition? How many of the 13 different classes have you played? How many sub-classes of each one have you tried?
Rubix_uni, what you propose is very similar to prestige classes in D&D 3,x/Pathfinder 1e for the idea of classes that you can only take via multi-classing, and like the old teamwork feats for the planned synergies between characters. I don’t know that either really offers more ‘flexibility’, given the requirement that you can only multi-class and you must get another player to agree to whatever choice you make. It seems to me more accurate to call it more ‘options.’ It sounds to me like most of what you are looking for could be accomplished with feats, which are easier to develop and balance than entire new classes. but of course, if you are talking homebrew, whatever floats your boat is good.
Homebrew aside, I find it fun to look for synergies in the existing classes/sub-classes between players. My Rogue assassin plus my buddy’s Twilight Cleric Vigilant Blessing for advantage on initiative checks? Yes please :)
As an experienced player I've seen what each class can do and it feels limited once you've found your favorite classes. So I though of an idea that can help renew multiclassing and add flavor to all classes.
The idea would a second set of class that can only be picked while multiclassing. Here's a few ideas that help draw out what I mean.
For example a shield guardian class where if another player takes a level in it could make a shield wall granting (advantages, +'s, and immunities)
or another could be dancing warriors where two player one next to the other would become blur and similar through illusion granting things like bonus on attack.
The idea is to offer more flexibility and renew the multiclass aspect but also create more interaction between players and how to combat.
What you are describing is called a prestige class. There were some in a UA a long time ago. They are kind of scrapped for now, but might return if/when epic level rules (above level 20) come out.
yes prestige classes are very much like what I imagined with a single difference the possibility of group action for example making a wall of shield. The possibility of combined actions is alluring to me making combat more strategic.
What you are proposing sounds like more specialized feats. And I have to say that if you feel a magic-user is simply about "casting spells" and a warrior is simply about "hitting something until it dies", you are probably not utilizing the game's core mechanics very well, and might perhaps benefit from letting your class mechanics fit your roleplay instead of trying to force your roleplay to fit your class mechanics?
The Prestige Classes are pretty much what killed off 3/3.5 edition D&D. They were a terrible idea. They were never meant to be played from first level, they were supposed to be specific to your setting, they were all part of organizations that you had to accept taking orders from, and they were published in the DMG as examples of what might be done. The basic idea was that they were overpowered, but limited.
What did people do? Ignore all the limitations and keep all the benefits. They were so popular, that every supplement had at least two new ones. There were dozens of them. Nobody would play any of the base classes, and why would they? All Prestige Classes were more powerful. That was by design. So at the point where there were no less than about 50 of these abominations, people started multi-classing them with each other. The results, of course, were horrible. There were builds that did hundreds of hit points in damage per attack. Wizards of the Coast noticed they were losing people, and they made the 4th edition.
Most people who liked that one, it was because it was the only version they knew. Everyone else said "That's not D&D", the sales were terrible, WotC lost even more customers now, to a game called Pathfinder mostly, and they made the 5th edition.
Bringing back those Prestige Classes would probably kill 5th edition too.
I see, I've looked into these prestige classes in the past and the limitation I found were too demanding, but I guess if players start ignoring restrictions you quickly get to what you described. I'm thinking a more balanced set of these could be interesting.
I see, I've looked into these prestige classes in the past and the limitation I found were too demanding, but I guess if players start ignoring restrictions you quickly get to what you described. I'm thinking a more balanced set of these could be interesting.
Yeah, I also think that a completely different approach from 3.x would be fine. Like if it just had a minimum level requirement in addition to other requirements, then made its features appropriate for the level you should be, it would be fine.
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As an experienced player I've seen what each class can do and it feels limited once you've found your favorite classes. So I though of an idea that can help renew multiclassing and add flavor to all classes.
The idea would a second set of class that can only be picked while multiclassing. Here's a few ideas that help draw out what I mean.
For example a shield guardian class where if another player takes a level in it could make a shield wall granting (advantages, +'s, and immunities)
or another could be dancing warriors where two player one next to the other would become blur and similar through illusion granting things like bonus on attack.
The idea is to offer more flexibility and renew the multiclass aspect but also create more interaction between players and how to combat.
This is best placed in the Homebrew forum, as there are no existing rules regarding multi class only classes (although if you are only getting 1-2 abilities, I’d look at selective feats to get what you want)
The idea is too offer flexibility when multiclassing, adding group strategies and allowing more possibilities when building a character. To me the classes are too limited since since I see all casters mostly the same, fighters and supports too. Apart from a the mechanic changing you are a caster weather warlock, wizard, sorcerer and so on...
13 official classes, with about half a dozen sub-classes each is around 78 combinations per class, you can modify them with feats, and you can multi-class with them. That seems pretty flexible to me...
<Insert clever signature here>
You miss the point the idea is to offer group strategies and make multiclassing more intresting
Why does it need to be more interesting? There are literally thousands of combinations available. New ones get added with every sourcebook. What you are suggesting is basically the same as a subclass, which you can get via multiclassing already
to me a caster is a caster and sure each have their own features but ultimately it all comes down to spell. Same with any form of warriors, you hit them with something until they die...
If you see it so simply, then what would you propose that would be so different? If you have already reduced all classes to just casters and fighters, what would possibly shake up the system that would make it worthwhile?
Well a Summoner for example would be a nice change. But the idea that I propose is a type of complementary class described at the beginning. A class that is meant to be for multiclassing allowing synergy between classes and also between players allowing group strategies.
A Wizard has 13 sub-classes, a Warlock has 9, and a Sorcerer has 7. You don't see a difference? You do realize, that's 2,457 combinations between all of them?
How long have you been playing 5th edition? How many of the 13 different classes have you played? How many sub-classes of each one have you tried?
<Insert clever signature here>
I mean weather I cast spells with a familiar, with more necrotic dmg or with charisma instead of wisdom in the end casting is casting...
Rubix_uni, what you propose is very similar to prestige classes in D&D 3,x/Pathfinder 1e for the idea of classes that you can only take via multi-classing, and like the old teamwork feats for the planned synergies between characters. I don’t know that either really offers more ‘flexibility’, given the requirement that you can only multi-class and you must get another player to agree to whatever choice you make. It seems to me more accurate to call it more ‘options.’ It sounds to me like most of what you are looking for could be accomplished with feats, which are easier to develop and balance than entire new classes. but of course, if you are talking homebrew, whatever floats your boat is good.
Homebrew aside, I find it fun to look for synergies in the existing classes/sub-classes between players. My Rogue assassin plus my buddy’s Twilight Cleric Vigilant Blessing for advantage on initiative checks? Yes please :)
What you are describing is called a prestige class. There were some in a UA a long time ago. They are kind of scrapped for now, but might return if/when epic level rules (above level 20) come out.
yes prestige classes are very much like what I imagined with a single difference the possibility of group action for example making a wall of shield. The possibility of combined actions is alluring to me making combat more strategic.
What you are proposing sounds like more specialized feats. And I have to say that if you feel a magic-user is simply about "casting spells" and a warrior is simply about "hitting something until it dies", you are probably not utilizing the game's core mechanics very well, and might perhaps benefit from letting your class mechanics fit your roleplay instead of trying to force your roleplay to fit your class mechanics?
The Prestige Classes are pretty much what killed off 3/3.5 edition D&D. They were a terrible idea. They were never meant to be played from first level, they were supposed to be specific to your setting, they were all part of organizations that you had to accept taking orders from, and they were published in the DMG as examples of what might be done. The basic idea was that they were overpowered, but limited.
What did people do? Ignore all the limitations and keep all the benefits. They were so popular, that every supplement had at least two new ones. There were dozens of them. Nobody would play any of the base classes, and why would they? All Prestige Classes were more powerful. That was by design. So at the point where there were no less than about 50 of these abominations, people started multi-classing them with each other. The results, of course, were horrible. There were builds that did hundreds of hit points in damage per attack. Wizards of the Coast noticed they were losing people, and they made the 4th edition.
Most people who liked that one, it was because it was the only version they knew. Everyone else said "That's not D&D", the sales were terrible, WotC lost even more customers now, to a game called Pathfinder mostly, and they made the 5th edition.
Bringing back those Prestige Classes would probably kill 5th edition too.
<Insert clever signature here>
I see, I've looked into these prestige classes in the past and the limitation I found were too demanding, but I guess if players start ignoring restrictions you quickly get to what you described. I'm thinking a more balanced set of these could be interesting.
Yeah, I also think that a completely different approach from 3.x would be fine. Like if it just had a minimum level requirement in addition to other requirements, then made its features appropriate for the level you should be, it would be fine.