Setup: An arcane trickster is hiding behind some rocks that are 6 feet away from 10 gnolls guarding the cave to the dungeon. Knowing the party is outnumbered the arcane trickster cast Message to the Ranger back in the woods telling him the party should not advance in this direction any further.
Question: I don't find Message as a form of telepathy or other of mind to mind communication where it is undetectable. Since Message has a verbal component and based on my example the trickster is pretty close to the gnolls where it COULD be a possibility of overhearing the spell being cast. The question is how to make a fair determination on if the 'whisper' is detected at a close range to another creature. I was thinking of making the trickster make another stealth roll to see how quiet it is versus the creature's Passive Perception. While there is no RAW regarding this I would like to get some input on my idea or if there is a better method of going about handling this situation.
Six feet away is literally in an adjacent space in combat measurement terms. I wouldn’t even allow a roll. I’d tell the player they can try to get farther away, or they’re heard, period.
They definitely can't hear the message (the spell makes that clear), but whether the message is the only verbal component is up to the DM.
Unless there is some background noise, a verbal component (even a whisper) is clearly detectable at 6 feet. Though the rules for senses are mostly non-existent so that is also up to DM.
They definitely can't hear the message (the spell makes that clear), but whether the message is the only verbal component is up to the DM.
Unless there is some background noise, a verbal component (even a whisper) is clearly detectable at 6 feet. Though the rules for senses are mostly non-existent so that is also up to DM.
I was thinking the same thing, but this might just be referring to the people around the recipient as opposed to the caster? Not to dispute what you are saying, but I'm wondering the intent of this in the description. I agree that it should be able to be heard at 6 feet.
If it were me as DM, I'd mention this to the caster's player. As the Caster would/should be aware of how you are interpreting the spell at least and as DxJxC mentioned unless background noise...I also agree with your Stealth vs Passive Perception idea as Stealth might account for their ability to time their whisper during a noisy or otherwise distracted moment.
RAW/RAI aside, I'd have the PC make another Stealth check against the Gnolls' passive perception. Depending on distance/noise, I'd add +5/-5 (advantage/disadvantage) to the Gnolls' passive perception.
If you are whispering, you can be heard. If the spell says you can't be heard, you aren't whispering, you must be mouthing the words. Bad wording.
The intent is you are actually whispering but nobody but you and the recipient hear the whisper. This is different than mouthing the words.
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If you are whispering, you can be heard. If the spell says you can't be heard, you aren't whispering, you must be mouthing the words. Bad wording.
It always amazes me that in a game with magic that allows you to do anything from cleaning your clothes to rewriting existence that so many people take the most mundane approach to it. You whisper, but only the target hears. This is because magic.
I do think the verbal component is audible though, so using the spell in stealth is not ideal, especially at only 6 feet away from an enemy
Setup: An arcane trickster is hiding behind some rocks that are 6 feet away from 10 gnolls guarding the cave to the dungeon. Knowing the party is outnumbered the arcane trickster cast Message to the Ranger back in the woods telling him the party should not advance in this direction any further.
Question: I don't find Message as a form of telepathy or other of mind to mind communication where it is undetectable. Since Message has a verbal component and based on my example the trickster is pretty close to the gnolls where it COULD be a possibility of overhearing the spell being cast. The question is how to make a fair determination on if the 'whisper' is detected at a close range to another creature. I was thinking of making the trickster make another stealth roll to see how quiet it is versus the creature's Passive Perception. While there is no RAW regarding this I would like to get some input on my idea or if there is a better method of going about handling this situation.
Six feet away is literally in an adjacent space in combat measurement terms. I wouldn’t even allow a roll. I’d tell the player they can try to get farther away, or they’re heard, period.
I was going to suggest exactly that, a Stealth roll v Passive Perception.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
They definitely can't hear the message (the spell makes that clear), but whether the message is the only verbal component is up to the DM.
Unless there is some background noise, a verbal component (even a whisper) is clearly detectable at 6 feet. Though the rules for senses are mostly non-existent so that is also up to DM.
I was thinking the same thing, but this might just be referring to the people around the recipient as opposed to the caster? Not to dispute what you are saying, but I'm wondering the intent of this in the description. I agree that it should be able to be heard at 6 feet.
If it were me as DM, I'd mention this to the caster's player. As the Caster would/should be aware of how you are interpreting the spell at least and as DxJxC mentioned unless background noise...I also agree with your Stealth vs Passive Perception idea as Stealth might account for their ability to time their whisper during a noisy or otherwise distracted moment.
RAW/RAI: Message isn't telepathy, but your whisper can only be heard by the creature you target. However, this doesn't mean that the casting of the spell is inaudible. Verbal components are always audible. The whisper itself is not the verbal spell component.
RAW/RAI aside, I'd have the PC make another Stealth check against the Gnolls' passive perception. Depending on distance/noise, I'd add +5/-5 (advantage/disadvantage) to the Gnolls' passive perception.
If you are whispering, you can be heard. If the spell says you can't be heard, you aren't whispering, you must be mouthing the words. Bad wording.
The intent is you are actually whispering but nobody but you and the recipient hear the whisper. This is different than mouthing the words.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
It always amazes me that in a game with magic that allows you to do anything from cleaning your clothes to rewriting existence that so many people take the most mundane approach to it. You whisper, but only the target hears. This is because magic.
I do think the verbal component is audible though, so using the spell in stealth is not ideal, especially at only 6 feet away from an enemy