Plus while conditions and spell effects carry over, changes in HP explicitly don't. Which is why this case in particular is weird.
And honestly, the suffocation rules are very unrealistic already. I don't like the idea that a person that was choked out is more injured than one that was stabbed 4 times, and that the stab wounds will heal faster than you can catch your breath...
And once we stop talking about the very unlikely jank that is suffocation, the discussion becomes much easier. I don't think there are any non-instantaneous effects that put you at 0.
Plus while conditions and spell effects carry over, changes in HP explicitly don't. Which is why this case in particular is weird.
Well, they sort of do -- in the sense that, if you get hit with damage, any excess damage beyond 0 does get applied to your original hit points.
Then there's something like being hit by a Wraith and having your maximum hps reduced by the amount of damage... There's another weird case. Seems to me, at face value, being polymorphed is a good protection against that power, since it does look like it would only apply to the current form (although over-damage would apply to your original hps, I imagine). I could see either argument on that one, since the wraith is affecting your very soul (but RAW, I don't see that it would affect you).
And honestly, the suffocation rules are very unrealistic already. I don't like the idea that a person that was choked out is more injured than one that was stabbed 4 times, and that the stab wounds will heal faster than you can catch your breath...
I don't see it like that. You don't "heal" from being stabbed faster than "catching your breath". If you can catch your breath, you're not suffocating any more and you don't die. It's only if you've suffocated and are now dying (i.e. you've run out of breath after 1+ConMod minutes and then ConMod rounds later are dying) that you are worse off than being stabbed. And that's only while you're still suffocating. If you're rescued/able to get air, then you're no worse off than being stabbed. AFAICT, this rule is only so you can't cheese through suffocation with regeneration/healing effects.
Or worse -- a medicine roll.
"I slapped a medkit on him, he'll be fine" <glub, gurgle glub, gasp>
Since nothing is addressed about how the transformation works, assuming that anything happens with the contents of your body/organs is an arbitration on the part of the DM, but I would argue that there is not supposed to be a penalty for the state of your body when you go back at 0hp. Therefore, if a hobgoblin was drowned as a rat, upon becoming a hobgoblin again they would 1) return to their original HP amount, and 2) no longer be drowning, meaning no penalty. If they were still underwater, because the air in their lungs would have returned, you would restart the hold breath counter (or if you were arguing the air did not return, restart the rounds based on CON mod).
Well, that's not entirely true. Nothing says you get to reset any conditions that are currently affecting you (You got paralyzed, for example, ending polymorph doesn't end that condition), and it specifically says that excess damage is carried over to your original form. It's rather clearer to me that polymorph is a bag of extra hps and powers, and not also a way to avoid conditions because of a magic reset when you hit 0 hps.
What condition is being applied? The only one in consideration would be The Unconscious condition, but that would apply in normal reductions to zero too (and it doesn’t with polymorph)
suffocation is not a condition
That's true. But it is a rule that governs how to adjudicate something being unable to breathe, and since there's no change in your environment external to your change in shape, there's no real reason to argue that you can suddenly reset the clock when you change shape. (I mean, you have, but it felt arbitrary to me, is all).
For example, one could just as well argue that it was your polymorphed body that was paralyzed, and so changing shape means you can stop being paralyzed. Because it was those muscles that were affected, not these ones. That's sort of what you're arguing about having "breath" stored up in a previous shape. I mean, if that's how you want polymorph to work for you, that's fine. It could make sense. But if that's the case, be prepared for someone in your game to argue that other conditions should also end because they were physically affecting the other body, and not this one.
Does the instant death rule apply to polymorphed creatures? If they take over damage equal to their max hp do they instantly die or still just revert back to their original form?
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Plus while conditions and spell effects carry over, changes in HP explicitly don't. Which is why this case in particular is weird.
And honestly, the suffocation rules are very unrealistic already. I don't like the idea that a person that was choked out is more injured than one that was stabbed 4 times, and that the stab wounds will heal faster than you can catch your breath...
And once we stop talking about the very unlikely jank that is suffocation, the discussion becomes much easier. I don't think there are any non-instantaneous effects that put you at 0.
Well, they sort of do -- in the sense that, if you get hit with damage, any excess damage beyond 0 does get applied to your original hit points.
Then there's something like being hit by a Wraith and having your maximum hps reduced by the amount of damage... There's another weird case. Seems to me, at face value, being polymorphed is a good protection against that power, since it does look like it would only apply to the current form (although over-damage would apply to your original hps, I imagine). I could see either argument on that one, since the wraith is affecting your very soul (but RAW, I don't see that it would affect you).
I don't see it like that. You don't "heal" from being stabbed faster than "catching your breath". If you can catch your breath, you're not suffocating any more and you don't die. It's only if you've suffocated and are now dying (i.e. you've run out of breath after 1+ConMod minutes and then ConMod rounds later are dying) that you are worse off than being stabbed. And that's only while you're still suffocating. If you're rescued/able to get air, then you're no worse off than being stabbed.
AFAICT, this rule is only so you can't cheese through suffocation with regeneration/healing effects.
Or worse -- a medicine roll.
"I slapped a medkit on him, he'll be fine" <glub, gurgle glub, gasp>
That's true.
But it is a rule that governs how to adjudicate something being unable to breathe, and since there's no change in your environment external to your change in shape, there's no real reason to argue that you can suddenly reset the clock when you change shape. (I mean, you have, but it felt arbitrary to me, is all).
For example, one could just as well argue that it was your polymorphed body that was paralyzed, and so changing shape means you can stop being paralyzed. Because it was those muscles that were affected, not these ones.
That's sort of what you're arguing about having "breath" stored up in a previous shape. I mean, if that's how you want polymorph to work for you, that's fine. It could make sense. But if that's the case, be prepared for someone in your game to argue that other conditions should also end because they were physically affecting the other body, and not this one.
Does the instant death rule apply to polymorphed creatures? If they take over damage equal to their max hp do they instantly die or still just revert back to their original form?