I haven't been able to figure it out. By basic rules, if a duel class wizard/spell caster has access to higher level spell slots, and a wizard finds a high level spell scroll, can they copy into their spellbook and cast it?
e.g. 5/5lvl wiz/clr finds a 5th lvl spell scroll, can they put it in their spellbook? Wiz 5lvl can only cast 3lvl spells alone but due to the cleric lvls they can they have 4th+5th lvl spell slots.
(of course this is always with discussion with DM)
The known/prepared spells are determined individually as per the rules on multi-classing, so they can only prepare up to 3rd level spells as a 5th level Wizard. And the sidebar in the Wizard rules for the Spellbook state that they can only add new spells for levels that they can prepare:
Copying a Spell into the Book. When you find a wizard spell of 1st level or higher, you can add it to your spellbook if it is of a spell level you can prepare and if you can spare the time to decipher and copy it.
The 4th/5th level spell slots they have are useful for upcasting spells, but don't provide any ability to learn/prepare 4th/5th level spells.
The Wizard table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your wizard spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
But according to this, as long as you have a spell slot you can prepare it. So if you can prepare it you can put it in your spellbook.
Don't forget the multiclassing rules that tell you that you that you determine which spells you know and can prepare for each class individually -- you do not use your multiclass spell slots.
ok. that just solidifies that wizards are underpowered as spellcasters.
Those rules apply to all multi-class casters, except to some degree the Warlock, which has its own quirks. I’m curious, why does this rule make wizards seem underpowered as spellcasters? Granted, they are less god-like than in 3.X D&D, but that isn’t a bad thing, in my opinion.
A multiclassed Wizard 5 / Cleric 5 is underpowered as a spellcaster because they can only prepare 3rd level Wizard spells and 3rd level Cleric spells. That's one of the tradeoffs of multiclassing.
But if this Wizard/Cleric really wants to be able to copy (some) higher-level Wizard spells into their spellbook, they could take the Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat, which effectively allows copying ritual Wizard spells as though they were a full-classed Wizard.
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Wizards are literally the best spellcasters by every metric. What you're now discovering is that multiclassing isn't the no-brainer you think it should be.
There's a difference between learning spells and copying scrolls. RAW, you can copy scrolls so long as you have the slots, but you can only learn spells (By leveling) that your individual class could learn. But I honestly don't know what I'd allow as a DM.
There's a difference between learning spells and copying scrolls. RAW, you can copy scrolls so long as you have the slots, but you can only learn spells (By leveling) that your individual class could learn. But I honestly don't know what I'd allow as a DM.
I know that a Spell Scroll requires a successful Arcana check to successfully copy it, but that is on top of the usual requirements when copying a spell into your spellbook. You still have to spend the time and material, and the spell must be of a level you can prepare as determined by your Wizard level.
I haven't been able to figure it out. By basic rules, if a duel class wizard/spell caster has access to higher level spell slots, and a wizard finds a high level spell scroll, can they copy into their spellbook and cast it?
e.g. 5/5lvl wiz/clr finds a 5th lvl spell scroll, can they put it in their spellbook? Wiz 5lvl can only cast 3lvl spells alone but due to the cleric lvls they can they have 4th+5th lvl spell slots.
(of course this is always with discussion with DM)
By some strict RAW interpretations, yes, they could add it. But no one plays that way because it is super broken, and was never the intent. Follow the guidance of the example instead. Pretend you only have as many spell slots as a 5th level wizard would have when determining if you can learn the spell.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
By no reasonable RAW interpretation could a wizard add any spell that they couldn’t cast or cast a wizard spell higher than the slots listed for their wizard level on their class table. While knowing the rules, you have to misinterpret something in order for wizards to scribe or cast spells beyond what their wizard level allows.
What I mean is you look at clerics and druids and bards and they can do a lot more than just cast spells and still cast spells like a wizard. Granted a wizard has access to more spell. But I also notice that some spells that I thought would be great for a Necromancer are cleric spells. I just think if you add all that the other main spellcaster can do to what a wizard can do it isn't balanced. I mean if you can prove me wrong that would be great. And I will playing the character as wizard straight through.
Wizards are already ritual casters. Part of the class. Thank you I never thought of that portion of it. I assumed that worked as well for rituals as well as normal casting.
But spells are the best part of wizards. They are the only prepared arcane casters with the option to choose new spells from their books every day, and some of the wizard schools give features that are way better than most features that sorcerers or bards get. Illusory reality, portent, transmuter's stone, arcane ward, etc. are all great abilities that rival or surpass anything given by any other spellcasting classes. On top of the biggest spell list with a huge number of great "this class only" spells, wizards have the best selection of spells with effects that just happen, too.
Yes, it was. Just looking at what the other spellcasters can do besides spellcasting.it seems like wizards are underpowered. And, yes, I will still be playing a straight wizard.
I haven't been able to figure it out. By basic rules, if a duel class wizard/spell caster has access to higher level spell slots, and a wizard finds a high level spell scroll, can they copy into their spellbook and cast it?
e.g. 5/5lvl wiz/clr finds a 5th lvl spell scroll, can they put it in their spellbook? Wiz 5lvl can only cast 3lvl spells alone but due to the cleric lvls they can they have 4th+5th lvl spell slots.
(of course this is always with discussion with DM)
No they cannot.
The known/prepared spells are determined individually as per the rules on multi-classing, so they can only prepare up to 3rd level spells as a 5th level Wizard. And the sidebar in the Wizard rules for the Spellbook state that they can only add new spells for levels that they can prepare:
The 4th/5th level spell slots they have are useful for upcasting spells, but don't provide any ability to learn/prepare 4th/5th level spells.
Preparing and Casting Spells
The Wizard table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your wizard spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.
You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
But according to this, as long as you have a spell slot you can prepare it. So if you can prepare it you can put it in your spellbook.
Don't forget the multiclassing rules that tell you that you that you determine which spells you know and can prepare for each class individually -- you do not use your multiclass spell slots.
Those multiclassing rules even discuss a wizard/spellcaster example.
ok. that just solidifies that wizards are underpowered as spellcasters.
Haha. Sorry. Was that supposed to be a legitimate criticism?
Those rules apply to all multi-class casters, except to some degree the Warlock, which has its own quirks. I’m curious, why does this rule make wizards seem underpowered as spellcasters? Granted, they are less god-like than in 3.X D&D, but that isn’t a bad thing, in my opinion.
A multiclassed Wizard 5 / Cleric 5 is underpowered as a spellcaster because they can only prepare 3rd level Wizard spells and 3rd level Cleric spells. That's one of the tradeoffs of multiclassing.
But if this Wizard/Cleric really wants to be able to copy (some) higher-level Wizard spells into their spellbook, they could take the Ritual Caster (Wizard) feat, which effectively allows copying ritual Wizard spells as though they were a full-classed Wizard.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Wizards are literally the best spellcasters by every metric. What you're now discovering is that multiclassing isn't the no-brainer you think it should be.
There's a difference between learning spells and copying scrolls. RAW, you can copy scrolls so long as you have the slots, but you can only learn spells (By leveling) that your individual class could learn. But I honestly don't know what I'd allow as a DM.
I know that a Spell Scroll requires a successful Arcana check to successfully copy it, but that is on top of the usual requirements when copying a spell into your spellbook. You still have to spend the time and material, and the spell must be of a level you can prepare as determined by your Wizard level.
Is there a rule somewhere else that I've missed?
By some strict RAW interpretations, yes, they could add it. But no one plays that way because it is super broken, and was never the intent. Follow the guidance of the example instead. Pretend you only have as many spell slots as a 5th level wizard would have when determining if you can learn the spell.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
By no reasonable RAW interpretation could a wizard add any spell that they couldn’t cast or cast a wizard spell higher than the slots listed for their wizard level on their class table. While knowing the rules, you have to misinterpret something in order for wizards to scribe or cast spells beyond what their wizard level allows.
What I mean is you look at clerics and druids and bards and they can do a lot more than just cast spells and still cast spells like a wizard. Granted a wizard has access to more spell. But I also notice that some spells that I thought would be great for a Necromancer are cleric spells. I just think if you add all that the other main spellcaster can do to what a wizard can do it isn't balanced. I mean if you can prove me wrong that would be great. And I will playing the character as wizard straight through.
Wizards are already ritual casters. Part of the class. Thank you I never thought of that portion of it. I assumed that worked as well for rituals as well as normal casting.
I meant copying into the spellbook.
But spells are the best part of wizards. They are the only prepared arcane casters with the option to choose new spells from their books every day, and some of the wizard schools give features that are way better than most features that sorcerers or bards get. Illusory reality, portent, transmuter's stone, arcane ward, etc. are all great abilities that rival or surpass anything given by any other spellcasting classes. On top of the biggest spell list with a huge number of great "this class only" spells, wizards have the best selection of spells with effects that just happen, too.
Yes, it was. Just looking at what the other spellcasters can do besides spellcasting.it seems like wizards are underpowered. And, yes, I will still be playing a straight wizard.
I am still not convinced. And multitasking has never been a no-brainer for me.