My wizard just turned lvl 9 and I'm trying to figure out how Wall of Force works. I understand it provides total cover but does not block line of sight. I read that it blocks 'line of effect' even though that is not actually a thing in 5e.
So, if my wizard is on one side of a Wall of Force and a creature is on the other side, which of the following statements are true?
I cannot target the creature with Fire Bolt as it has total cover.
I cannot target the creature with Frostbite even though the spell literally says it works on a creature you can see.
If I throw a Fireball on my side of the wall, the creature will not be affected by the blast (assuming it would be in the AoE).
If I throw a Fireball on my side of the wall, and we are at the end of the wall so the AoE can wrap around it, the creature will be affected by the blast.
I cannot summon a creature on the other side of the wall.
My wizard just turned lvl 9 and I'm trying to figure out how Wall of Force works. I understand it provides total cover but does not block line of sight. I read that it blocks 'line of effect' even though that is not actually a thing in 5e.
So, if my wizard is on one side of a Wall of Force and a creature is on the other side, which of the following statements are true?
I cannot target the creature with Fire Bolt as it has total cover.
I cannot target the creature with Frostbite even though the spell literally says it works on a creature you can see.
If I throw a Fireball on my side of the wall, the creature will not be affected by the blast (assuming it would be in the AoE).
If I throw a Fireball on my side of the wall, and we are at the end of the wall so the AoE can wrap around it, the creature will be affected by the blast.
I cannot summon a creature on the other side of the wall.
Fireball is special because it "spreads around corners", meaning there are configurations of the wall where the Fireball can detonate on one side and hurt someone on the other side. Most AOEs lack this special wording. True for this spell.
Maybe. It depends on how you're summoning the creature.
If you cast Find Familiar, it can't summon the familiar to the other side of the wall.
If you already cast it and dismiss your familiar, then re-summon it as a non-spell action, it can be re-summoned onto the other side of the wall. The general rule for spells not being able to target through total cover is only applicable when you cast the spell, so there can be arbitrarily nuanced situations later, even later during the same action, depending on wording.
Depends on the spell.
Misty Step targets you, then teleports you, so it goes through Wall of Force. You can tell because it is Range (Self). True for this spell.
Thunder Step and Dimension Door target the space you're teleporting to (again, the easy way to tell is from the spell's Range), so they are blocked by total cover, including Wall of Force. False for these two spells.
Thunder Step says it lets you bring a willing a creature along, and nothing about Wall of Force has any particular interaction with that. So it's true you can't teleport a creature with you, because Thunder Step can't go through the wall (see 8), but it's false that Wall of Force cares more about your passenger than you.
8,9: It's my understanding that the thing that allows the first two to work is the range of "self," which Thunder Step doesn't have.
11: If your origin for the cube is perpendicular to a wall, you're golden. It doesn't spread around corners exactly, though. Check out the rules for cube effects. Generally your best bet is probably going to be to select the "roof" of the cube as the origin, unless the wall you're trying to bypass has a roof.
My wizard just turned lvl 9 and I'm trying to figure out how Wall of Force works. I understand it provides total cover but does not block line of sight. I read that it blocks 'line of effect' even though that is not actually a thing in 5e.
So, if my wizard is on one side of a Wall of Force and a creature is on the other side, which of the following statements are true?
I cannot target the creature with Fire Bolt as it has total cover.
I cannot target the creature with Frostbite even though the spell literally says it works on a creature you can see.
If I throw a Fireball on my side of the wall, the creature will not be affected by the blast (assuming it would be in the AoE).
If I throw a Fireball on my side of the wall, and we are at the end of the wall so the AoE can wrap around it, the creature will be affected by the blast.
I cannot summon a creature on the other side of the wall.
If I use Thunder Step, I am not able to bring the creature with me.
If I cast Hallucinatory Terrain, if the wall is a dome or sphere, the inside will not be affected.
If I cast Hallucinatory Terrain, if the wall is made out of panels, the other side can be affected if there is a path around the wall withing the AoE.
Thanks, Tom
Just a note about your presumption in your intro. The idea of line of effect isn't described using those terms, instead it is described called "A Clear Path to the Target." It is absolutely a thing in 5e.
Ok, thanks. That clears things up. Things I've learned:
Misty Step is special because it has target self. I assume this is just a technicality because the 'range' is dependent on your speed, but it has this side effect.
AoE Cubes always have an origin, even if they do not originate from a physical object.
Line of effect exits in the A Clear Path to the Target rule. This rule and the cover rules are specific for spells (and attacks). So technically I can summon my Awakened Spellbook mind beyond the Wall of Force. I'll discuss that with my DM though.
One comment. In my opinion, Dimension Door is not blocked by total cover.
"You teleport yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You arrive at exactly the spot desired. It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as "200 feet straight downward" or "upward to the northwest at a 45-degree angle, 300 feet." "
You teleport to ANY other spot within range. It doesn't have to be one you can see. You can visualize it or specify angle/distance or any other coordinate you like to use. You can use Dimension Door to teleport to the other side of a door or through solid rock or through any other form of total cover as long as you can visualize where you want to go or can specify coordinates relative to your current location.
Ok, thanks. That clears things up. Things I've learned:
Misty Step is special because it has target self. I assume this is just a technicality because the 'range' is dependent on your speed, but it has this side effect.
Nothing about Misty Step is dependent on the caster's speed. It teleports you up to 30 feet, just as the spell says, regardless of the caster's speed (and regardless of the spell's range - if you come up with a way to change the spell's range, it will still teleport you 30 feet, not the spell's new range).
AoE Cubes always have an origin, even if they do not originate from a physical object.
Yes. Most AOEs originate at a point in space.
Line of effect exits in the A Clear Path to the Target rule. This rule and the cover rules are specific for spells (and attacks). So technically I can summon my Awakened Spellbook mind beyond the Wall of Force. I'll discuss that with my DM though.
Correct. In fact, you don't need to be able to see the space you manifest the mind in, so the cover you're manifesting behind can be opaque. Note that the mind is an object, not a creature, which results in a significant number of rules consequences you may not be expecting, since you originally asked about summoning creatures.
My wizard just turned lvl 9 and I'm trying to figure out how Wall of Force works. I understand it provides total cover but does not block line of sight. I read that it blocks 'line of effect' even though that is not actually a thing in 5e.
So, if my wizard is on one side of a Wall of Force and a creature is on the other side, which of the following statements are true?
I cannot target the creature with Fire Bolt as it has total cover.
I cannot target the creature with Frostbite even though the spell literally says it works on a creature you can see.
If I throw a Fireball on my side of the wall, the creature will not be affected by the blast (assuming it would be in the AoE).
If I throw a Fireball on my side of the wall, and we are at the end of the wall so the AoE can wrap around it, the creature will be affected by the blast.
I cannot summon a creature on the other side of the wall.
If I use Thunder Step, I am not able to bring the creature with me.
If I cast Hallucinatory Terrain, if the wall is a dome or sphere, the inside will not be affected.
If I cast Hallucinatory Terrain, if the wall is made out of panels, the other side can be affected if there is a path around the wall withing the AoE.
Thanks, Tom
Pretty sure I disagree with other posters. Some spells only require being able to see the target, and don't describe needing line of effect to them. If you only need to see them, you can still affect them behind a wall of force. The wall doesn't stop everything. It specifically and only says "Nothing can physically pass through the wall." So long as the effect isn't physical the wall doesn't stop it.
true
false - you can see the other side - you can frostbite creatures there
false - you can see the other side - you can summon stuff there
true
true
true
false - you can see the other side - summon away
true
false - the wall doesn't stop teleportation - hop on over
false - the wall doesn't stop illusions - your illusions aren't blocked by a physical barrier
irrelevant you can affect the other side no issues with the spell.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
My wizard just turned lvl 9 and I'm trying to figure out how Wall of Force works. I understand it provides total cover but does not block line of sight. I read that it blocks 'line of effect' even though that is not actually a thing in 5e.
So, if my wizard is on one side of a Wall of Force and a creature is on the other side, which of the following statements are true?
I cannot target the creature with Fire Bolt as it has total cover.
I cannot target the creature with Frostbite even though the spell literally says it works on a creature you can see.
If I throw a Fireball on my side of the wall, the creature will not be affected by the blast (assuming it would be in the AoE).
If I throw a Fireball on my side of the wall, and we are at the end of the wall so the AoE can wrap around it, the creature will be affected by the blast.
I cannot summon a creature on the other side of the wall.
If I use Thunder Step, I am not able to bring the creature with me.
If I cast Hallucinatory Terrain, if the wall is a dome or sphere, the inside will not be affected.
If I cast Hallucinatory Terrain, if the wall is made out of panels, the other side can be affected if there is a path around the wall withing the AoE.
Thanks, Tom
Just a note about your presumption in your intro. The idea of line of effect isn't described using those terms, instead it is described called "A Clear Path to the Target." It is absolutely a thing in 5e.
The thing most people seem to ignore about "A clear path" rules is the part that describes what blocks the effect.
"If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction."
There is an "and" here. Not an "or".
You need to be able to see the target, or need an unobstructed path to it. If you have neither, you don't have a clear path. Wall of Force doesn't block sight. So you still have a clear path to stuff behind it IF the spell only requires the ability to see it.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You completely ignored the first sentence and only considered the additional information that specifically applies only when you cannot see the point you try to target.
Ok, thanks. That clears things up. Things I've learned:
Misty Step is special because it has target self. I assume this is just a technicality because the 'range' is dependent on your speed, but it has this side effect.
Nothing about Misty Step is dependent on the caster's speed. It teleports you up to 30 feet, just as the spell says, regardless of the caster's speed (and regardless of the spell's range - if you come up with a way to change the spell's range, it will still teleport you 30 feet, not the spell's new range).summoning creatures.
Oh my, I could have sworn Misty Step said, "You teleport up to your speed". It's been wrong in my head all this time?
You completely ignored the first sentence and only considered the additional information that specifically applies only when you cannot see the point you try to target.
Nope.
The first sentence is talking about total cover. Wall of force grants total cover only for physical things. Per the spell:
Nothing can physically pass through the wall.
So it would not provide cover for anything that isn't physical.
Why do we know this? Because of the total cover rules:
A target has total cover if it is completely concealed by an obstacle.
The target must be entirely concealed by "an obstacle" and wall of force isn't an obstacle for things that aren't physical. Again, per the spell itself.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Are you even trying to make sense or are you just going to quote some stuff that is completely unrelated to the discussion at hand until I give up?
Spells need a clear path to the target. They are blocked by total cover. Those are absolutely RAW. If the target is concealed (not necessarily visually concealed, mind you) then it is behind total cover. Spells cannot physically pass a wall of force, therefore it meets that criterion of being total cover. The only problem here is your misunderstanding.
Are you even trying to make sense or are you just going to quote some stuff that is completely unrelated to the discussion at hand until I give up?
Spells need a clear path to the target. They are blocked by total cover. Those are absolutely RAW. If the target is concealed (not necessarily visually concealed, mind you) then it is behind total cover. Spells cannot physically pass a wall of force, therefore it meets that criterion of being total cover. The only problem here is your misunderstanding.
Your argument is entirely tautological and unfounded.
Your claim: It blocks spells.
Your evidence: It blocks spells so therefore it is total cover which blocks spells.
It doesn't say it blocks spells. It doesn't say it is even total cover. Read the spell again. Wall of Force.
What is actually says? Nothing can physically pass through the wall.
Therefore, it is only total cover against things that would need to physically pass through it. Some spells only require the ability to see the target. It does not stop vision, so it does not stop these spells.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Yes, in general wall of force blocks spells. But not if you only need to see the target. Keep reading, they ask 'would glass block spells?'. Another example of an invisible cover. What's he say??
"not if the spell says you need to see the target"
Wall of Force only block things that would need to go through it. Spells that create their effect at a far off location don't need to go through it. If the spell only requires sight for targeting, wall of force doesn't block it.
This doesn't really say anything one way or the other, it just talks about teleportation. It someone touches on the notion of only needing to see, but mostly just repeats raw text.
This just reiterates the fact things cannot pass... through... it. Says nothing about seeing the target unoccupied space on the other side of it and summoning a creature there. In this case, nothing would be going... through... the wall either.
We covered this one already. Something is only total cover if it is an obstacle. Wall of Force is not an obstacle to sight. It is invisible.
If your spell only requires sight to target, fraid wall of force doesn't block it.
Edit:
Think about it like this. Say you have two similar powers. One that allows you to shoot cold blasts from your fingertips and another that lets you look at something and cause it to freeze from within.
Wall of Force absolutely blocks the first one but can't stop the second one. Because it is invisible and you can still look at your target. The spell magic is happening at the targets location itself and doesn't need to pass through the barrier. Magic is spooky like that sometimes.
If you're not 'launching' the effect or otherwise need to target the other other side of the wall somehow... if instead the magic effect springs into existence at the location/creature you "can see" then there is nothing 'passing' through the wall, it just happens at the destination.
Something being between you and your target is only giving them cover if it is an obstacle. Nothing in wall of force suggests it can prevent you from seeing your targets of spells on the other side. Therefore, it isn't an obstacle for those spells.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Oh my, I could have sworn Misty Step said, "You teleport up to your speed". It's been wrong in my head all this time?
Happens all the time with many of the very popular spells (and Misty Step is easily one of the most popular). Happy to help!
One other thing to mention, since David42 brought it up: I was being precise with my language, but I did make a casual assumption because you made it and the general consensus is that it's correct, but it bears being explicit about if you want a full explanation: the rules defining total cover use the word "concealed," meaning technically, only opaque total cover has a definition - the exact rules governing transparent obstacles, such as a glass window or wall of force, don't exist. I.e. it's not technically RAW to declare that Wall of Force is total cover, just as it isn't RAW to declare that it isn't, because the rules don't discuss it. There are certain points in the rules where the community needs a rule to exist that WOTC has never actually issued, so we come together and form a consensus. This is one such issue: by mutual accord, we all agree that transparent total cover is still total cover, even if it doesn't conceal anything.
As a corollary, David42 is absolutely correct that neither of the rules I mentioned - total cover blocking spell targeting and total cover blocking AOEs - have anything to do with visibility. All spells can target things you can't see and all AOEs can hit things you can't see unless the spell specifically says otherwise (and in fact many do, which can lead to confusion when people assume a spell does or doesn't have vision restrictions). Dimension Door is an excellent example - you 100% can target a point you can't see with it.
Hi,
My wizard just turned lvl 9 and I'm trying to figure out how Wall of Force works. I understand it provides total cover but does not block line of sight. I read that it blocks 'line of effect' even though that is not actually a thing in 5e.
So, if my wizard is on one side of a Wall of Force and a creature is on the other side, which of the following statements are true?
Thanks,
Tom
All correct except...
8,9: It's my understanding that the thing that allows the first two to work is the range of "self," which Thunder Step doesn't have.
11: If your origin for the cube is perpendicular to a wall, you're golden. It doesn't spread around corners exactly, though. Check out the rules for cube effects. Generally your best bet is probably going to be to select the "roof" of the cube as the origin, unless the wall you're trying to bypass has a roof.
Just a note about your presumption in your intro. The idea of line of effect isn't described using those terms, instead it is described called "A Clear Path to the Target." It is absolutely a thing in 5e.
Ok, thanks. That clears things up. Things I've learned:
Misty Step is special because it has target self. I assume this is just a technicality because the 'range' is dependent on your speed, but it has this side effect.
AoE Cubes always have an origin, even if they do not originate from a physical object.
Line of effect exits in the A Clear Path to the Target rule. This rule and the cover rules are specific for spells (and attacks). So technically I can summon my Awakened Spellbook mind beyond the Wall of Force. I'll discuss that with my DM though.
One comment. In my opinion, Dimension Door is not blocked by total cover.
"You teleport yourself from your current location to any other spot within range. You arrive at exactly the spot desired. It can be a place you can see, one you can visualize, or one you can describe by stating distance and direction, such as "200 feet straight downward" or "upward to the northwest at a 45-degree angle, 300 feet." "
You teleport to ANY other spot within range. It doesn't have to be one you can see. You can visualize it or specify angle/distance or any other coordinate you like to use. You can use Dimension Door to teleport to the other side of a door or through solid rock or through any other form of total cover as long as you can visualize where you want to go or can specify coordinates relative to your current location.
Nothing about Misty Step is dependent on the caster's speed. It teleports you up to 30 feet, just as the spell says, regardless of the caster's speed (and regardless of the spell's range - if you come up with a way to change the spell's range, it will still teleport you 30 feet, not the spell's new range).
Yes. Most AOEs originate at a point in space.
Correct. In fact, you don't need to be able to see the space you manifest the mind in, so the cover you're manifesting behind can be opaque. Note that the mind is an object, not a creature, which results in a significant number of rules consequences you may not be expecting, since you originally asked about summoning creatures.
Pretty sure I disagree with other posters. Some spells only require being able to see the target, and don't describe needing line of effect to them. If you only need to see them, you can still affect them behind a wall of force. The wall doesn't stop everything. It specifically and only says "Nothing can physically pass through the wall." So long as the effect isn't physical the wall doesn't stop it.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
All spells need a clear path to the target unless they say they don't. Some say that they don't.
The thing most people seem to ignore about "A clear path" rules is the part that describes what blocks the effect.
"If you place an area of effect at a point that you can't see and an obstruction, such as a wall, is between you and that point, the point of origin comes into being on the near side of that obstruction."
There is an "and" here. Not an "or".
You need to be able to see the target, or need an unobstructed path to it. If you have neither, you don't have a clear path. Wall of Force doesn't block sight. So you still have a clear path to stuff behind it IF the spell only requires the ability to see it.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You completely ignored the first sentence and only considered the additional information that specifically applies only when you cannot see the point you try to target.
Oh my, I could have sworn Misty Step said, "You teleport up to your speed". It's been wrong in my head all this time?
Nope.
The first sentence is talking about total cover. Wall of force grants total cover only for physical things. Per the spell:
So it would not provide cover for anything that isn't physical.
Why do we know this? Because of the total cover rules:
The target must be entirely concealed by "an obstacle" and wall of force isn't an obstacle for things that aren't physical. Again, per the spell itself.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Are you even trying to make sense or are you just going to quote some stuff that is completely unrelated to the discussion at hand until I give up?
Spells need a clear path to the target. They are blocked by total cover. Those are absolutely RAW. If the target is concealed (not necessarily visually concealed, mind you) then it is behind total cover. Spells cannot physically pass a wall of force, therefore it meets that criterion of being total cover. The only problem here is your misunderstanding.
Your argument is entirely tautological and unfounded.
It doesn't say it blocks spells. It doesn't say it is even total cover. Read the spell again. Wall of Force.
What is actually says? Nothing can physically pass through the wall.
Therefore, it is only total cover against things that would need to physically pass through it. Some spells only require the ability to see the target. It does not stop vision, so it does not stop these spells.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
It says nothing can physically pass. Spells must physically pass. At least, according to the designers and the rules
https://www.sageadvice.eu/wall-force-barrier/
https://www.sageadvice.eu/targeting-spellsclear-path-can-i-target-across-wall-of-force/
https://twitter.com/jeremyecrawford/status/1251656811955892225?lang=en
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#AClearPathtotheTarget
Is that what they say?
This says the opposite of what you claim.
Yes, in general wall of force blocks spells. But not if you only need to see the target. Keep reading, they ask 'would glass block spells?'. Another example of an invisible cover. What's he say??
"not if the spell says you need to see the target"
Wall of Force only block things that would need to go through it. Spells that create their effect at a far off location don't need to go through it. If the spell only requires sight for targeting, wall of force doesn't block it.
This doesn't really say anything one way or the other, it just talks about teleportation. It someone touches on the notion of only needing to see, but mostly just repeats raw text.
This just reiterates the fact things cannot pass... through... it. Says nothing about seeing the target unoccupied space on the other side of it and summoning a creature there. In this case, nothing would be going... through... the wall either.
We covered this one already. Something is only total cover if it is an obstacle. Wall of Force is not an obstacle to sight. It is invisible.
If your spell only requires sight to target, fraid wall of force doesn't block it.
Edit:
Think about it like this. Say you have two similar powers. One that allows you to shoot cold blasts from your fingertips and another that lets you look at something and cause it to freeze from within.
Wall of Force absolutely blocks the first one but can't stop the second one. Because it is invisible and you can still look at your target. The spell magic is happening at the targets location itself and doesn't need to pass through the barrier. Magic is spooky like that sometimes.
If you're not 'launching' the effect or otherwise need to target the other other side of the wall somehow... if instead the magic effect springs into existence at the location/creature you "can see" then there is nothing 'passing' through the wall, it just happens at the destination.
Something being between you and your target is only giving them cover if it is an obstacle. Nothing in wall of force suggests it can prevent you from seeing your targets of spells on the other side. Therefore, it isn't an obstacle for those spells.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Only spells that say they don't require a clear path don't require a clear path. An obstacle that blocks the physical path blocks a spell otherwise.
Happens all the time with many of the very popular spells (and Misty Step is easily one of the most popular). Happy to help!
One other thing to mention, since David42 brought it up: I was being precise with my language, but I did make a casual assumption because you made it and the general consensus is that it's correct, but it bears being explicit about if you want a full explanation: the rules defining total cover use the word "concealed," meaning technically, only opaque total cover has a definition - the exact rules governing transparent obstacles, such as a glass window or wall of force, don't exist. I.e. it's not technically RAW to declare that Wall of Force is total cover, just as it isn't RAW to declare that it isn't, because the rules don't discuss it. There are certain points in the rules where the community needs a rule to exist that WOTC has never actually issued, so we come together and form a consensus. This is one such issue: by mutual accord, we all agree that transparent total cover is still total cover, even if it doesn't conceal anything.
As a corollary, David42 is absolutely correct that neither of the rules I mentioned - total cover blocking spell targeting and total cover blocking AOEs - have anything to do with visibility. All spells can target things you can't see and all AOEs can hit things you can't see unless the spell specifically says otherwise (and in fact many do, which can lead to confusion when people assume a spell does or doesn't have vision restrictions). Dimension Door is an excellent example - you 100% can target a point you can't see with it.
Not only do most of us agree on transparent total cover, so does the lead designer. https://www.sageadvice.eu/is-a-glass-window-considered-a-total-cover/