See, today we had a fight where someone tried to use dispel magic on me to end multiple of my effects. This made me think about how this would go with some of the spells I could now use. Many seem to be dispelled by this spell (summon fey?), but there are some spells I do not know if this would end the spell or not. My biggest questions, for now at least, are Telekinesis and Animate objects.
Dispel Magic will work on Telekinesis, provided Dispel Magic is targeting the same target Telekinesis is. Unless you're picking yourself up, hitting you with Dispel Magic while you're holding up a rock with Telekinesis won't do anything at all - the Dispeller would have to target the rock. If you were Telekinesing yourself to basically fly with extra steps (a common use of the spell, to be honest), then yes, targeting you with Dispel Magic would end the spell.
Similar logic applies to Animate Objects - Dispel Magic will work, but not if it's cast on you. If it's cast on any 1 of the Animated Objects and it successfully Dispels (by using a higher level slot or by the caster passing the ability check), the entire spell will end as if you'd broken Concentration, so all the objects will cease to be animated.
Dispel Magic, per its text, attempts to end all spells on the target. A spell you're concentrating on isn't intrinsically on you. As a general rule, the benefit of hitting a caster with Dispel Magic is that you'll end (or attempt to end) all spell buffs on them.
If dispel magic targets the magical effect from bless cast by a cleric, does it remove the effect on all the targets?
Dispel magic ends a spell on one target. It doesn’t end the same spell on other targets.
So OP, TexasDevin didn't say, but this is a quote from the SAC - link here. As is sometimes the case, what we have here is a rules conflict. To make sure you understand that this an issue endemic to 5E, I'll whip out my favorite example.
The way this is normally resolved is your DM picks one of the mutually exclusive RAWs to go with. In this case, the text of Dispel Magic says that it ends the spell. The Sage Advice Compendium says that Dispel Magic does not end the spell and instead ends it only for the target hit by Dispel Magic. Only your DM can tell you how this will be handled in their campaign.
If dispel magic targets the magical effect from bless cast by a cleric, does it remove the effect on all the targets?
Dispel magic ends a spell on one target. It doesn’t end the same spell on other targets.
So OP, TexasDevin didn't say, but this is a quote from the SAC - link here. As is sometimes the case, what we have here is a rules conflict. To make sure you understand that this an issue endemic to 5E, I'll whip out my favorite example.
The way this is normally resolved is your DM picks one of the mutually exclusive RAWs to go with. In this case, the text of Dispel Magic says that it ends the spell. The Sage Advice Compendium says that Dispel Magic does not end the spell and instead ends it only for the target hit by Dispel Magic. Only your DM can tell you how this will be handled in their campaign.
Of course a DM is welcome to run it however they want but ..
A thrown longsword is an improvised weapon since it does not have the thrown property. The rules make clear which stat to use for thrown weapons with that property.
"IMPROVISED WEAPONS Sometimes characters don't have their weapons and have to attack with whatever is at hand. An improvised weapon includes any object you can wield in one or two hands, such as broken glass, a table leg, a frying pan, a wagon wheel, or a dead goblin. Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.
An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the DM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet."
"Thrown. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a hand axe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the dagger has the finesse property."
So a longsword would be an improvised thrown weapon, it would deal 1d4 damage and it would use strength to resolve the to hit roll since that is the ability modifier usually used for that weapon. A DM can rule otherwise if they want but this is a case where the specific rules for thrown improvised weapons take precedence over the general rules you cite.
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Dispel magic is a similar issue and will likely be played differently at each table depending on the DM.
"Choose one creature, object, or magical effect within range. Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends. For each spell of 4th level or higher on the target, make an ability check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell's level. On a successful check, the spell ends."
The issue here is that "magical effect" is a valid target for Dispel Magic. However, "magical effect" isn't well defined. The SAC quote indicates that if you target a creature then you can only dispel bless (for example) on that one target. It does not discuss whether you can target the ongoing magical effect of bless and dispel the spell effect.
So, depending on DM ruling you could target a creature and dispel ALL the magical effects on that one creature OR you could target the magical effect itself like bless and end it on all affected creatures. That is likely a valid interpretation of the RAW for dispel magic.
Applying this to Animate Objects - the caster of Dispel Magic could target the magical effect of Animate Objects and end the entire spell on all the objects because they targeted the magical effect.
In the case of Telekinesis, it lists a range of 60', but the spell description clearly indicates that the magical effect is on the caster.
"You gain the ability to move or manipulate creatures or objects by thought."
It explicitly states YOU. The magical effect for telekinesis is on the caster or at least, if I was running this, that is how I would rule it. A spell doesn't have to have a target of "self" for the spell to be on the caster (just look at bless or any number of other spells that leave a magical effect on the caster). So in this case, dispel magic could target the caster to end all magical effects on them including telekinesis or they could target the magical effect of telekinesis directly.
Anyway, how a DM runs dispel magic is up to them but since the spell includes the ability to target magical effects directly and spells produce magical effects - this indicates to me that dispel magic can be used to dispel the effects of specific spells directly. It doesn't need to only target a creature or object to dispel a magical effect - it can target the magical effect directly.
Dispel Magic removes the magic from the target. If you target a rock that's being affected by telekinesis, then TK no longer affects that rock. That doesnt end the TK ability that was on the caster. Since TK is cast on the caster, they could simply use TK on that rock again. You'd have to cast TK on the caster. That'll dispel the TK on the user, given proper checks. Is the rock still affected by the caster once they no longer have TK? No.
Animated Objects are cast on the object(s) themselves. So you could cast Dispel Magic on the creature that is an animated object and then that creature potentially is no longer animated and no longer a creature.. it goes back to being an object, based on the level of Animated object that was cast vs the level and potential spell ability check of the dispel magic. But I would argue that the target of dispel magic is one object or creature. So you could target only one animated object, not all of them if there's more than 1. Animated Objects isnt an effect, the magic affects each targeted object individually.
Regarding the "effect" portion of Dispel Magic, I believe that relates to AoE effects like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spiritual Weapon, etc. They are not objects or creatures, but still single discreet targetable instances. You cannot short-circuit the entirety of a concentration spell by targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target a specific end result of the spell.
Regarding the "effect" portion of Dispel Magic, I believe that relates to AoE effects like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spiritual Weapon, etc. They are not objects or creatures, but still single discreet targetable instances. You cannot short-circuit the entirety of a concentration spell by targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target a specific end result of the spell.
That's a valid interpretation but if you want to claim it is the only interpretation then you will need to cite quotes from RAW to justify it. "Magical Effect" is not well defined in the rules to the best of my knowledge and while I agree it includes things like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spritual Weapon etc. ... I am not sure why you would exclude other magical effects like Telekinesis (isn't it magical?), bless, fear, etc.
Basically, the effect of any spell could be considered a "magical effect" unless you have a reference to a rule saying otherwise?
Regarding the "effect" portion of Dispel Magic, I believe that relates to AoE effects like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spiritual Weapon, etc. They are not objects or creatures, but still single discreet targetable instances. You cannot short-circuit the entirety of a concentration spell by targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target a specific end result of the spell.
That's a valid interpretation but if you want to claim it is the only interpretation then you will need to cite quotes from RAW to justify it. "Magical Effect" is not well defined in the rules to the best of my knowledge and while I agree it includes things like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spritual Weapon etc. ... I am not sure why you would exclude other magical effects like Telekinesis (isn't it magical?), bless, fear, etc.
Basically, the effect of any spell could be considered a "magical effect" unless you have a reference to a rule saying otherwise?
You're missing my point. Dispel magic states it targets a single creature, object or effect. In this instance, an "effect" that is eligible as a target is something tangible that you can see in the environment, such as the examples I described above. If you wish to end the effect of something such as Telekinesis, Bless, or Fear, you will be targeting a creature or object and, as SAC states, if a spell that can create multiple instances of an effect is is dispelled, it only ends a single effect. To quote the exact words "Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends". You can dispel Telekinesis to end the manipulation of a specific creature/object, but it does not end the caster's ability to then use their action on the following turn to exert the effect again. Basically, you cannot declare that you are targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target an end result.
Regarding the "effect" portion of Dispel Magic, I believe that relates to AoE effects like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spiritual Weapon, etc. They are not objects or creatures, but still single discreet targetable instances. You cannot short-circuit the entirety of a concentration spell by targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target a specific end result of the spell.
That's a valid interpretation but if you want to claim it is the only interpretation then you will need to cite quotes from RAW to justify it. "Magical Effect" is not well defined in the rules to the best of my knowledge and while I agree it includes things like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spritual Weapon etc. ... I am not sure why you would exclude other magical effects like Telekinesis (isn't it magical?), bless, fear, etc.
Basically, the effect of any spell could be considered a "magical effect" unless you have a reference to a rule saying otherwise?
You're missing my point. Dispel magic states it targets a single creature, object or effect. In this instance, an "effect" that is eligible as a target is something tangible that you can see in the environment, such as the examples I described above. If you wish to end the effect of something such as Telekinesis, Bless, or Fear, you will be targeting a creature or object and, as SAC states, if a spell that can create multiple instances of an effect is is dispelled, it only ends a single effect. To quote the exact words "Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends". You can dispel Telekinesis to end the manipulation of a specific creature/object, but it does not end the caster's ability to then use their action on the following turn to exert the effect again. Basically, you cannot declare that you are targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target an end result.
Just to play devil's advocate on this a little bit:
Why could you not target the "source" of the Telekinesis, the caster, as the "effect" you are wishing to end. the "effect" being the "source" of the telekinesis?
I don't believe the caster is a valid target for dispel magic in this situation because the caster is not a target of the spell.
EDIT: Let me try a visual representation of what I'm saying.
1 <-----120'-----> 2 <------60'-----> 3
In this example, 1 is you, 2 is the person who cast telekinesis, and 3 is the rock that is held in the air by telekinesis. In this case, the rock is 180' away from you, therefore you cannot attempt to dispel the telekinesis, because the target of telekinesis is out of range for you to target it with dispel magic.
I don't believe the caster is a valid target for dispel magic in this situation because the caster is not a target of the spell.
EDIT: Let me try a visual representation of what I'm saying.
1 <-----120'-----> 2 <------60'-----> 3
In this example, 1 is you, 2 is the person who cast telekinesis, and 3 is the rock that is held in the air by telekinesis. In this case, the rock is 180' away from you, therefore you cannot attempt to dispel the telekinesis, because the target of telekinesis is out of range for you to target it with dispel magic.
I think Dispel Magic CAN end the effect of the Telekinesis spell - that is what dispel magic does. The question is, what does the Dispel Magic spell need to target in order to end the spell? Ace_of_rogues suggested that it is impossible for Dispel Magic to end the Telekinesis spell since they only target the affected object and I disagree with that interpretation.
Dispel Magic could target the object currently affected by the spell. Would it then end the Telekinesis spell entirely or just the effect on that object? If a DM rules that Dispel magic must target the object then I would think it would completely end the spell.
Alternatively, the DM could rule that the magical effect of telekinesis is affecting the spellcaster giving them the ability to move things with their mind.
"You gain the ability to move or manipulate creatures or objects by thought."
The effect of the spell is to grant a magical ability to the caster that can be used on targets within 60'. Personally, I would rule that the spellcaster currently affected by the telekinesis spell is the appropriate target for Dispel Magic in this case to completely dispel the telekinesis spell though I could see a different DM ruling otherwise.
OK, so let's say we can either use dispel magic to target the target of telekinesis, which is 180' away in my example, or we can use it to target the spell effect of telekinesis. Where is that? It is located on the caster? Is it an invisible string of magic that extends from the caster to the target? Does the spell effect of telekinesis even have an AOE other than the target (the rock in our example)? We can hypothesize about this, but the only one the rules tell us for certain is the rock itself.
So, I'm not here to tell you that you cannot target the spell effect of telekinesis. After all, the first sentence of dispel magic's spell description would seem to indicate that you can. The problem for me is when we look at the second sentence of the spell's description. If we are targeting a spell effect without a defined AOE other than creature/object targeted by the original spell, we don't know where that effect is located, and therefore we don't know if it is within range of dispel magic in a given situation. When one interpretation of a rule is specific and the other one is ambiguous, I don't feel like it's fair to just throw up our hands and say, "we don't know--it's up to the DM." While everything is always up to the DM, in this case, the statement is not a necessitated by a lack of RAW guidance. I think in this case, we should fall back on the specific interpretation of a rule as written.
Regarding the "effect" portion of Dispel Magic, I believe that relates to AoE effects like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spiritual Weapon, etc. They are not objects or creatures, but still single discreet targetable instances. You cannot short-circuit the entirety of a concentration spell by targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target a specific end result of the spell.
That's a valid interpretation but if you want to claim it is the only interpretation then you will need to cite quotes from RAW to justify it. "Magical Effect" is not well defined in the rules to the best of my knowledge and while I agree it includes things like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spritual Weapon etc. ... I am not sure why you would exclude other magical effects like Telekinesis (isn't it magical?), bless, fear, etc.
Basically, the effect of any spell could be considered a "magical effect" unless you have a reference to a rule saying otherwise?
You're missing my point. Dispel magic states it targets a single creature, object or effect. In this instance, an "effect" that is eligible as a target is something tangible that you can see in the environment, such as the examples I described above. If you wish to end the effect of something such as Telekinesis, Bless, or Fear, you will be targeting a creature or object and, as SAC states, if a spell that can create multiple instances of an effect is is dispelled, it only ends a single effect. To quote the exact words "Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends". You can dispel Telekinesis to end the manipulation of a specific creature/object, but it does not end the caster's ability to then use their action on the following turn to exert the effect again. Basically, you cannot declare that you are targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target an end result.
Just to play devil's advocate on this a little bit:
Why could you not target the "source" of the Telekinesis, the caster, as the "effect" you are wishing to end. the "effect" being the "source" of the telekinesis?
(continue)
For the same reason you can't target the Bless caster in the SAC example as the "source" of the Bless. Essentially, you need to target a Dispel Magic at a something that is being affected by the spell, and it doesn't then back trace that effect to root out the spell itself. If it had a target of "Self" like Shadow Blade, then you could target the caster to end the spell, since by the description the caster is the one under the effect of their spell. Telekinesis, however, only targets other objects and creatures, so even though the caster is the one calling the shots, by the definition of the spell's targeting they are not "under the effect" of the spell unless they move themselves.
Let's take this process a step further and consider the interaction of dispel magic and banishment.
Let's say there is an evil wizard and his evil demon ally together in a room deep inside a dungeon. Now the PC cleric walks into the room and recognizes the fiend, so he casts banishment on the demon and the demon fails its save. The demon is sent back to the Abyss from which it came, and the cleric starts concentrating on making the banishment permanent. The evil wizard has dispel magic prepared and wants to squash the banishment spell. Can he cast it on the cleric? Can he cast it on the banishment spell effect? Is that spell effect even located on the same plane as the cleric? Or must the wizard travel to the abyss and cast dispel magic on the demon that was targeted by the banishment spell? It looks to me like the rules say it's the third option because the cleric casting banishment is not a target of the banishment spell.
I mean, the easier option would just be to take some swings at the Cleric or use a spell to incapacitate them. But yeah, based on the SAC clarification of dispel magic, you need to be able to aim at the endpoint of the spell, so you can't dispel a Banishment unless you are able to jump to the other side and find the target in under a minute.
You could cast DM on the source and end the effect. Or cast DM on the target and end the effect.
But here is the trick. The caster of dispel Magic has no way to target his dispel spell on a specific effect. If there is more than one effect working on a target at that same time it could turn any of them off at random. Or as we used to rule, the last effect implemented is the first one shut off. Including magic items, though they are only turned off for a single turn. The general Dispel Magic rules apply at all times. Target saving throws and such.
Regarding the "effect" portion of Dispel Magic, I believe that relates to AoE effects like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spiritual Weapon, etc. They are not objects or creatures, but still single discreet targetable instances. You cannot short-circuit the entirety of a concentration spell by targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target a specific end result of the spell.
That's a valid interpretation but if you want to claim it is the only interpretation then you will need to cite quotes from RAW to justify it. "Magical Effect" is not well defined in the rules to the best of my knowledge and while I agree it includes things like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spritual Weapon etc. ... I am not sure why you would exclude other magical effects like Telekinesis (isn't it magical?), bless, fear, etc.
Basically, the effect of any spell could be considered a "magical effect" unless you have a reference to a rule saying otherwise?
You're missing my point. Dispel magic states it targets a single creature, object or effect. In this instance, an "effect" that is eligible as a target is something tangible that you can see in the environment, such as the examples I described above. If you wish to end the effect of something such as Telekinesis, Bless, or Fear, you will be targeting a creature or object and, as SAC states, if a spell that can create multiple instances of an effect is is dispelled, it only ends a single effect. To quote the exact words "Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends". You can dispel Telekinesis to end the manipulation of a specific creature/object, but it does not end the caster's ability to then use their action on the following turn to exert the effect again. Basically, you cannot declare that you are targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target an end result.
Just to play devil's advocate on this a little bit:
Why could you not target the "source" of the Telekinesis, the caster, as the "effect" you are wishing to end. the "effect" being the "source" of the telekinesis?
(continue)
For the same reason you can't target the Bless caster in the SAC example as the "source" of the Bless. Essentially, you need to target a Dispel Magic at a something that is being affected by the spell, and it doesn't then back trace that effect to root out the spell itself. If it had a target of "Self" like Shadow Blade, then you could target the caster to end the spell, since by the description the caster is the one under the effect of their spell. Telekinesis, however, only targets other objects and creatures, so even though the caster is the one calling the shots, by the definition of the spell's targeting they are not "under the effect" of the spell unless they move themselves.
The difference between Bless and the telekinesis example:
Bless is passively always active on the people blessed by the caster.
The telekinesis is not a passively always active thing. It's an active thing, you still "exert your will" onto the object. This is drastically different than bless. For the purpose of this conversation, the bless example is a horrible comparison and not relevant. That's akin to comparing Heat Metal damage to throwing a spear.
Regarding the "effect" portion of Dispel Magic, I believe that relates to AoE effects like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spiritual Weapon, etc. They are not objects or creatures, but still single discreet targetable instances. You cannot short-circuit the entirety of a concentration spell by targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target a specific end result of the spell.
That's a valid interpretation but if you want to claim it is the only interpretation then you will need to cite quotes from RAW to justify it. "Magical Effect" is not well defined in the rules to the best of my knowledge and while I agree it includes things like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spritual Weapon etc. ... I am not sure why you would exclude other magical effects like Telekinesis (isn't it magical?), bless, fear, etc.
Basically, the effect of any spell could be considered a "magical effect" unless you have a reference to a rule saying otherwise?
You're missing my point. Dispel magic states it targets a single creature, object or effect. In this instance, an "effect" that is eligible as a target is something tangible that you can see in the environment, such as the examples I described above. If you wish to end the effect of something such as Telekinesis, Bless, or Fear, you will be targeting a creature or object and, as SAC states, if a spell that can create multiple instances of an effect is is dispelled, it only ends a single effect. To quote the exact words "Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends". You can dispel Telekinesis to end the manipulation of a specific creature/object, but it does not end the caster's ability to then use their action on the following turn to exert the effect again. Basically, you cannot declare that you are targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target an end result.
Just to play devil's advocate on this a little bit:
Why could you not target the "source" of the Telekinesis, the caster, as the "effect" you are wishing to end. the "effect" being the "source" of the telekinesis?
(continue)
For the same reason you can't target the Bless caster in the SAC example as the "source" of the Bless. Essentially, you need to target a Dispel Magic at a something that is being affected by the spell, and it doesn't then back trace that effect to root out the spell itself. If it had a target of "Self" like Shadow Blade, then you could target the caster to end the spell, since by the description the caster is the one under the effect of their spell. Telekinesis, however, only targets other objects and creatures, so even though the caster is the one calling the shots, by the definition of the spell's targeting they are not "under the effect" of the spell unless they move themselves.
The difference between Bless and the telekinesis example:
Bless is passively always active on the people blessed by the caster.
The telekinesis is not a passively always active thing. It's an active thing, you still "exert your will" onto the object. This is drastically different than bless. For the purpose of this conversation, the bless example is a horrible comparison and not relevant. That's akin to comparing Heat Metal damage to throwing a spear.
But, like Animate Objects, even if you're directing the effect, the effect is not always applied to you. Just because the spell call for you to use an action to utilize it every turn doesn't mean there's an effect on you that can be dispelled.
Magic that requires concentration is like a string between the caster and the effect or recipient.
You should be able to cut it at either end.
A spell that has an effect that does not require concentration you would have to DM on the effected area/object/person. The caster is no longer required.
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See, today we had a fight where someone tried to use dispel magic on me to end multiple of my effects. This made me think about how this would go with some of the spells I could now use. Many seem to be dispelled by this spell (summon fey?), but there are some spells I do not know if this would end the spell or not. My biggest questions, for now at least, are Telekinesis and Animate objects.
Thank you all in advance.
Dispel Magic will work on Telekinesis, provided Dispel Magic is targeting the same target Telekinesis is. Unless you're picking yourself up, hitting you with Dispel Magic while you're holding up a rock with Telekinesis won't do anything at all - the Dispeller would have to target the rock. If you were Telekinesing yourself to basically fly with extra steps (a common use of the spell, to be honest), then yes, targeting you with Dispel Magic would end the spell.
Similar logic applies to Animate Objects - Dispel Magic will work, but not if it's cast on you. If it's cast on any 1 of the Animated Objects and it successfully Dispels (by using a higher level slot or by the caster passing the ability check), the entire spell will end as if you'd broken Concentration, so all the objects will cease to be animated.
Dispel Magic, per its text, attempts to end all spells on the target. A spell you're concentrating on isn't intrinsically on you. As a general rule, the benefit of hitting a caster with Dispel Magic is that you'll end (or attempt to end) all spell buffs on them.
I believe dispel magic would end animate objects on one single animated object each time you cast it.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
So OP, TexasDevin didn't say, but this is a quote from the SAC - link here. As is sometimes the case, what we have here is a rules conflict. To make sure you understand that this an issue endemic to 5E, I'll whip out my favorite example.
The way this is normally resolved is your DM picks one of the mutually exclusive RAWs to go with. In this case, the text of Dispel Magic says that it ends the spell. The Sage Advice Compendium says that Dispel Magic does not end the spell and instead ends it only for the target hit by Dispel Magic. Only your DM can tell you how this will be handled in their campaign.
Of course a DM is welcome to run it however they want but ..
A thrown longsword is an improvised weapon since it does not have the thrown property. The rules make clear which stat to use for thrown weapons with that property.
"IMPROVISED WEAPONS
Sometimes characters don't have their weapons and have to attack with whatever is at hand. An improvised weapon includes any object you can wield in one or two hands, such as broken glass, a table leg, a frying pan, a wagon wheel, or a dead goblin. Often, an improvised weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table
leg is akin to a club. At the DM's option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her proficiency bonus.
An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the DM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet."
"Thrown. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a hand axe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the dagger has the finesse property."
So a longsword would be an improvised thrown weapon, it would deal 1d4 damage and it would use strength to resolve the to hit roll since that is the ability modifier usually used for that weapon. A DM can rule otherwise if they want but this is a case where the specific rules for thrown improvised weapons take precedence over the general rules you cite.
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Dispel magic is a similar issue and will likely be played differently at each table depending on the DM.
"Choose one creature, object, or magical effect within range. Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends. For each spell of 4th level or higher on the target, make an ability check using your spellcasting ability. The DC equals 10 + the spell's level. On a successful check, the spell ends."
The issue here is that "magical effect" is a valid target for Dispel Magic. However, "magical effect" isn't well defined. The SAC quote indicates that if you target a creature then you can only dispel bless (for example) on that one target. It does not discuss whether you can target the ongoing magical effect of bless and dispel the spell effect.
So, depending on DM ruling you could target a creature and dispel ALL the magical effects on that one creature OR you could target the magical effect itself like bless and end it on all affected creatures. That is likely a valid interpretation of the RAW for dispel magic.
Applying this to Animate Objects - the caster of Dispel Magic could target the magical effect of Animate Objects and end the entire spell on all the objects because they targeted the magical effect.
In the case of Telekinesis, it lists a range of 60', but the spell description clearly indicates that the magical effect is on the caster.
"You gain the ability to move or manipulate creatures or objects by thought."
It explicitly states YOU. The magical effect for telekinesis is on the caster or at least, if I was running this, that is how I would rule it. A spell doesn't have to have a target of "self" for the spell to be on the caster (just look at bless or any number of other spells that leave a magical effect on the caster). So in this case, dispel magic could target the caster to end all magical effects on them including telekinesis or they could target the magical effect of telekinesis directly.
Anyway, how a DM runs dispel magic is up to them but since the spell includes the ability to target magical effects directly and spells produce magical effects - this indicates to me that dispel magic can be used to dispel the effects of specific spells directly. It doesn't need to only target a creature or object to dispel a magical effect - it can target the magical effect directly.
I disagree with the some of the claims here.
Dispel Magic removes the magic from the target. If you target a rock that's being affected by telekinesis, then TK no longer affects that rock. That doesnt end the TK ability that was on the caster. Since TK is cast on the caster, they could simply use TK on that rock again. You'd have to cast TK on the caster. That'll dispel the TK on the user, given proper checks. Is the rock still affected by the caster once they no longer have TK? No.
Animated Objects are cast on the object(s) themselves. So you could cast Dispel Magic on the creature that is an animated object and then that creature potentially is no longer animated and no longer a creature.. it goes back to being an object, based on the level of Animated object that was cast vs the level and potential spell ability check of the dispel magic. But I would argue that the target of dispel magic is one object or creature. So you could target only one animated object, not all of them if there's more than 1. Animated Objects isnt an effect, the magic affects each targeted object individually.
Regarding the "effect" portion of Dispel Magic, I believe that relates to AoE effects like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spiritual Weapon, etc. They are not objects or creatures, but still single discreet targetable instances. You cannot short-circuit the entirety of a concentration spell by targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target a specific end result of the spell.
That's a valid interpretation but if you want to claim it is the only interpretation then you will need to cite quotes from RAW to justify it. "Magical Effect" is not well defined in the rules to the best of my knowledge and while I agree it includes things like Daylight, Darkness, Alarm, Spritual Weapon etc. ... I am not sure why you would exclude other magical effects like Telekinesis (isn't it magical?), bless, fear, etc.
Basically, the effect of any spell could be considered a "magical effect" unless you have a reference to a rule saying otherwise?
You're missing my point. Dispel magic states it targets a single creature, object or effect. In this instance, an "effect" that is eligible as a target is something tangible that you can see in the environment, such as the examples I described above. If you wish to end the effect of something such as Telekinesis, Bless, or Fear, you will be targeting a creature or object and, as SAC states, if a spell that can create multiple instances of an effect is is dispelled, it only ends a single effect. To quote the exact words "Any spell of 3rd level or lower on the target ends". You can dispel Telekinesis to end the manipulation of a specific creature/object, but it does not end the caster's ability to then use their action on the following turn to exert the effect again. Basically, you cannot declare that you are targeting the "effect" of the caster holding the spell, you need to target an end result.
Just to play devil's advocate on this a little bit:
Why could you not target the "source" of the Telekinesis, the caster, as the "effect" you are wishing to end. the "effect" being the "source" of the telekinesis?
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I don't believe the caster is a valid target for dispel magic in this situation because the caster is not a target of the spell.
EDIT: Let me try a visual representation of what I'm saying.
1 <-----120'-----> 2 <------60'-----> 3
In this example, 1 is you, 2 is the person who cast telekinesis, and 3 is the rock that is held in the air by telekinesis. In this case, the rock is 180' away from you, therefore you cannot attempt to dispel the telekinesis, because the target of telekinesis is out of range for you to target it with dispel magic.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I think Dispel Magic CAN end the effect of the Telekinesis spell - that is what dispel magic does. The question is, what does the Dispel Magic spell need to target in order to end the spell? Ace_of_rogues suggested that it is impossible for Dispel Magic to end the Telekinesis spell since they only target the affected object and I disagree with that interpretation.
Dispel Magic could target the object currently affected by the spell. Would it then end the Telekinesis spell entirely or just the effect on that object? If a DM rules that Dispel magic must target the object then I would think it would completely end the spell.
Alternatively, the DM could rule that the magical effect of telekinesis is affecting the spellcaster giving them the ability to move things with their mind.
"You gain the ability to move or manipulate creatures or objects by thought."
The effect of the spell is to grant a magical ability to the caster that can be used on targets within 60'. Personally, I would rule that the spellcaster currently affected by the telekinesis spell is the appropriate target for Dispel Magic in this case to completely dispel the telekinesis spell though I could see a different DM ruling otherwise.
You may be right.
OK, so let's say we can either use dispel magic to target the target of telekinesis, which is 180' away in my example, or we can use it to target the spell effect of telekinesis. Where is that? It is located on the caster? Is it an invisible string of magic that extends from the caster to the target? Does the spell effect of telekinesis even have an AOE other than the target (the rock in our example)? We can hypothesize about this, but the only one the rules tell us for certain is the rock itself.
So, I'm not here to tell you that you cannot target the spell effect of telekinesis. After all, the first sentence of dispel magic's spell description would seem to indicate that you can. The problem for me is when we look at the second sentence of the spell's description. If we are targeting a spell effect without a defined AOE other than creature/object targeted by the original spell, we don't know where that effect is located, and therefore we don't know if it is within range of dispel magic in a given situation. When one interpretation of a rule is specific and the other one is ambiguous, I don't feel like it's fair to just throw up our hands and say, "we don't know--it's up to the DM." While everything is always up to the DM, in this case, the statement is not a necessitated by a lack of RAW guidance. I think in this case, we should fall back on the specific interpretation of a rule as written.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
For the same reason you can't target the Bless caster in the SAC example as the "source" of the Bless. Essentially, you need to target a Dispel Magic at a something that is being affected by the spell, and it doesn't then back trace that effect to root out the spell itself. If it had a target of "Self" like Shadow Blade, then you could target the caster to end the spell, since by the description the caster is the one under the effect of their spell. Telekinesis, however, only targets other objects and creatures, so even though the caster is the one calling the shots, by the definition of the spell's targeting they are not "under the effect" of the spell unless they move themselves.
Let's take this process a step further and consider the interaction of dispel magic and banishment.
Let's say there is an evil wizard and his evil demon ally together in a room deep inside a dungeon. Now the PC cleric walks into the room and recognizes the fiend, so he casts banishment on the demon and the demon fails its save. The demon is sent back to the Abyss from which it came, and the cleric starts concentrating on making the banishment permanent. The evil wizard has dispel magic prepared and wants to squash the banishment spell. Can he cast it on the cleric? Can he cast it on the banishment spell effect? Is that spell effect even located on the same plane as the cleric? Or must the wizard travel to the abyss and cast dispel magic on the demon that was targeted by the banishment spell? It looks to me like the rules say it's the third option because the cleric casting banishment is not a target of the banishment spell.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I mean, the easier option would just be to take some swings at the Cleric or use a spell to incapacitate them. But yeah, based on the SAC clarification of dispel magic, you need to be able to aim at the endpoint of the spell, so you can't dispel a Banishment unless you are able to jump to the other side and find the target in under a minute.
I would rule both ways sort of.
You could cast DM on the source and end the effect. Or cast DM on the target and end the effect.
But here is the trick.
The caster of dispel Magic has no way to target his dispel spell on a specific effect. If there is more than one effect working on a target at that same time it could turn any of them off at random.
Or as we used to rule, the last effect implemented is the first one shut off. Including magic items, though they are only turned off for a single turn.
The general Dispel Magic rules apply at all times. Target saving throws and such.
The difference between Bless and the telekinesis example:
Bless is passively always active on the people blessed by the caster.
The telekinesis is not a passively always active thing. It's an active thing, you still "exert your will" onto the object. This is drastically different than bless. For the purpose of this conversation, the bless example is a horrible comparison and not relevant. That's akin to comparing Heat Metal damage to throwing a spear.
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But, like Animate Objects, even if you're directing the effect, the effect is not always applied to you. Just because the spell call for you to use an action to utilize it every turn doesn't mean there's an effect on you that can be dispelled.
Magic that requires concentration is like a string between the caster and the effect or recipient.
You should be able to cut it at either end.
A spell that has an effect that does not require concentration you would have to DM on the effected area/object/person. The caster is no longer required.