"For the duration, you sense the presence of magic within 30 feet of you. If you sense magic in this way, you can use your action to see a faint aura around any visible creature or object in the area that bears magic, and you learn its school of magic, if any. The spell can penetrate most barriers, but it is blocked by 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt."
The first part could be read as a binary question - is there magic within 30' - yes or no. It doesn't tell you where that magic is.
It could also be read as sensing individual discrete sources of magic but the spell doesn't state explicitly that you know where they are.
The second part specifically refers to the creature or object being visible. If it is visible, you can see an aura. If something is invisible, you could not see an aura. If it is behind total cover you could not see an aura.
However, can you use detect magic to determine the location of an invisible creature using magic to remain invisible? If you go with an interpretation of detect magic that gives the user the location of magic within the 30' range then yes detect magic should be able to detect a creature using the invisibility spell. You would not be able to see an aura because the target is invisible but you would know generally where it is.
If you go with the interpretation that all you get is a sense of magic being present within 30' unless the magical object or creature is visible in which case you see an aura - then all you would know is that there is a magic source within 30' and not where it is.
Unfortunately, detect magic in this edition does not explicitly state that it tells you where the magic source is. All the previous editions allowed the spell to sense the location of magical sources and auras within range (even if not visible) and obtain some information about them unless blocked by specific barriers. The 3e/3.5e (d20srd) rules were the most detailed requiring 1 round to sense that magic was present, 2 rounds to determine the number of auras and the strongest, 3 rounds to determine the locations and powers of each aura.
However, whether the 5e version is intended to give the 1 round version of 3e that tells you magic is present or the 3 round version that tells you where everything is, is not clear.
As a result, it is entirely up to the DM how they want to run it. I usually allow detect magic to determine the general location of magical sources but there is no aura or exact location unless the creature or object is visible. (However, I played the previous versions of the game so I am used to detect magic working in a certain way that may not be justified by the 5e wording).
why doesn't this spell use the phrase "a creature or object that you can see" then, when so many others do? what other spell descriptions use the term 'visible' when it doesn't correspond to invisibility, but rather means "in plain sight"? i'm researching with my dm, so i'm actually asking.
and again, why doesn't the second paragraph state "the presense-sensing effect of the spell can be blocked by..."? what is the purpose of that rule applying to auras if auras behind a curtain can't be seen already? cheers👍
For the duration, you see invisible creatures and objects as if they were visible, and you can see into the Ethereal Plane. Ethereal creatures and objects appear ghostly and translucent.
If 'visible' is non-technical and means "in plain sight", ^ this spell allows you to see invisible creatures in your range of sight through walls of any thickness. Because you can now see invisible creatures as if they were "in plain sight".
Ring of Invisibility
While wearing this ring, you can turn invisible as an action. Anything you are wearing or carrying is invisible with you. You remain invisible until the ring is removed, until you attack or cast a spell, or until you use a bonus action to become visible again.
Using our definition of visible, if you take this ring off while hiding, another creature must immediately see you. Because 'visible' means "currently in plain sight".
Lantern of Revealing
While lit, this hooded lantern burns for 6 hours on 1 pint of oil, shedding bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet. Invisible creatures and objects are visible as long as they are in the lantern's bright light.
If this lantern shines light around a corner, you would see a now 'visible' creature through the wall.
Cloak of Invisibility
Same thing, you become visible once you remove it, in our case meaning that some creature must magically see you, if we're going with "currently sees you".
Just saying, the rules have many many words that don't get strictly defined, and those words fill countless question forums because context changes meaning. Most immediately available uses of 'visible' are only regarding the invisible state, and most rules for movement, combat, and spellcasting that don't engage with invisibility use the standard phrases we know, which are not the word 'visible'. Not hard and fast, but visible usually means "not invisible". And when the rule concerns plain sight or concealment, 'visible' is not used.
"visible" in the wording of the Detect Magic spell is used so players have to visually see and inspect the magic that is detected, otherwise what's the point of using an action to see what the aura and school of magic is?
just because a window is behind a set of curtains, does that mean if the curtains are closed one can see the window or the window is "visible"? ( to see the window behind the curtains, one must make the window "visible" by moving the curtains aside )
in most games, the color of the aura is tied to and indicates the school of magic. if multiple colors are "seen", then the aura will look like a rainbow meaning multiple enchantments may be present.
As for invisible creatures and objects, when Detect magic is used that "Invisible" object/creature will set the sense part of the spell off, and if that "Invisible" creature/object is "hidden in plain sight" then using an action to investigate and "see" the aura that surrounds it is one way to confirm if indeed the object/creature is "visible".
[ personally as a player and DM when Detect Magic is used, I tend to imagine a tiny glowing orb ( only the caster can see ) in the center of whatever's magical and points to where that creature/object is located. ]
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
"visible" in the wording of the Detect Magic spell is used so players have to visually see and inspect the magic that is detected, otherwise what's the point of using an action to see what the aura and school of magic is?
Apart from other questions, I believe what happens is, you cast the spell, and can sense magic. Then you take an action, and any magical visible thing in 30 ft gets an aura. You don't specifically have to select which items you want to discern.
I didn't think of this before, I just like realized to read the dictionary definition, and in common nontechnical language, visible means "able to be seen", not "seen". a hidden non-invisible magic pocketwatch is able to be seen, under certain circumstances. the circumstances occurring or not does not effect its innate ability to be seen. so by the dictionary it's visible until it's not possibly able to be seen. feel like this is also why 'visible' doesn't appear in other rules. hope i'm not pedantic but common language came up and i'm on a time crunch.
I didn't think of this before, I just like realized to read the dictionary definition, and in common nontechnical language, visible means "able to be seen", not "seen". a hidden non-invisible magic pocketwatch is able to be seen, under certain circumstances. the circumstances occurring or not does not effect its innate ability to be seen. so by the dictionary it's visible until it's not possibly able to be seen. feel like this is also why 'visible' doesn't appear in other rules. hope i'm not pedantic but common language came up and i'm on a time crunch.
You're so close. A hidden, non-invisible magic pocketwatch is able to be seen, under certain circumstances. The circumstances occurring or not does affect its ability to be seen. You just said exactly that. If the circumstances permit it to be seen, then it's visible. If they don't, you need to change the circumstances until you can see it, whereupon it becomes visible.
By the dictionary definition, which is the relevant one here since D&D doesn't provide a technical definition, it's visible until it's "not possibly able to be seen." That's exactly right! And if it's inside an opaque box, it's "not possibly able to be seen" until you open the box.
thanks for the help everyone, it was great to hear all sides of this 🙏
hope it didn't seem nyah nyah or anything 😊
jic you're curious for your own rulings or anything, my dm looked the thread over and she ruled:
- of course no aura for invisible, that wasn't an issue
- an actively hiding character doesn't show an aura no matter what, neither do any magic items they carry
- invisibility of course will show up vaguely that there is magic nearby, but if i try the aura action and deduce that it's invisibility when i see no auras, i can, if the flow of the game allows, use the aura action + searching to vaguely know like, north south east west, probably once per area, and it would only show up as 'magic' not 'invisibility' (we haven't run into that yet, but something vague we'll iron out [i didn't ask but she thinks it's a good idea])
- barriers have to be kinda be pretty purposeful, built barriers to block the spell, like a ramshackle pile of stone or a loose collection of sand will not, but masonry or pretty solid skillfully improvised barricade of metal armor or weapons will, case by case
- actively searching through a loot pile would show a directional vague aura of a covered item at the bottom
so generally she left leeway but also added some deliberate effort to make it flow better and not just auto x-ray for magic
in our plan for the rogue to signal, i've told them instead to either carry 2 items with different schools on them, that while invisible or hiding they could drop one of which to signal 'yes' or 'no', or they can turn visible, use pixie dust, and depending on where i see the aura, i'll know yes or no
thanks again everybody for your thoughts, they were super helpful, and not like, me trolling. i wanted the dm to see as many opinions as possible. cheers 🍻
The text for detect magic is:
"For the duration, you sense the presence of magic within 30 feet of you. If you sense magic in this way, you can use your action to see a faint aura around any visible creature or object in the area that bears magic, and you learn its school of magic, if any. The spell can penetrate most barriers, but it is blocked by 1 foot of stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3 feet of wood or dirt."
The first part could be read as a binary question - is there magic within 30' - yes or no. It doesn't tell you where that magic is.
It could also be read as sensing individual discrete sources of magic but the spell doesn't state explicitly that you know where they are.
The second part specifically refers to the creature or object being visible. If it is visible, you can see an aura. If something is invisible, you could not see an aura. If it is behind total cover you could not see an aura.
However, can you use detect magic to determine the location of an invisible creature using magic to remain invisible? If you go with an interpretation of detect magic that gives the user the location of magic within the 30' range then yes detect magic should be able to detect a creature using the invisibility spell. You would not be able to see an aura because the target is invisible but you would know generally where it is.
If you go with the interpretation that all you get is a sense of magic being present within 30' unless the magical object or creature is visible in which case you see an aura - then all you would know is that there is a magic source within 30' and not where it is.
Unfortunately, detect magic in this edition does not explicitly state that it tells you where the magic source is. All the previous editions allowed the spell to sense the location of magical sources and auras within range (even if not visible) and obtain some information about them unless blocked by specific barriers. The 3e/3.5e (d20srd) rules were the most detailed requiring 1 round to sense that magic was present, 2 rounds to determine the number of auras and the strongest, 3 rounds to determine the locations and powers of each aura.
However, whether the 5e version is intended to give the 1 round version of 3e that tells you magic is present or the 3 round version that tells you where everything is, is not clear.
As a result, it is entirely up to the DM how they want to run it. I usually allow detect magic to determine the general location of magical sources but there is no aura or exact location unless the creature or object is visible. (However, I played the previous versions of the game so I am used to detect magic working in a certain way that may not be justified by the 5e wording).
why doesn't this spell use the phrase "a creature or object that you can see" then, when so many others do? what other spell descriptions use the term 'visible' when it doesn't correspond to invisibility, but rather means "in plain sight"? i'm researching with my dm, so i'm actually asking.
and again, why doesn't the second paragraph state "the presense-sensing effect of the spell can be blocked by..."? what is the purpose of that rule applying to auras if auras behind a curtain can't be seen already? cheers👍
See Invisibility Range: Self
For the duration, you see invisible creatures and objects as if they were visible, and you can see into the Ethereal Plane. Ethereal creatures and objects appear ghostly and translucent.
If 'visible' is non-technical and means "in plain sight", ^ this spell allows you to see invisible creatures in your range of sight through walls of any thickness. Because you can now see invisible creatures as if they were "in plain sight".
Ring of Invisibility
While wearing this ring, you can turn invisible as an action. Anything you are wearing or carrying is invisible with you. You remain invisible until the ring is removed, until you attack or cast a spell, or until you use a bonus action to become visible again.
Using our definition of visible, if you take this ring off while hiding, another creature must immediately see you. Because 'visible' means "currently in plain sight".
Lantern of Revealing
While lit, this hooded lantern burns for 6 hours on 1 pint of oil, shedding bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet. Invisible creatures and objects are visible as long as they are in the lantern's bright light.
If this lantern shines light around a corner, you would see a now 'visible' creature through the wall.
Cloak of Invisibility
Same thing, you become visible once you remove it, in our case meaning that some creature must magically see you, if we're going with "currently sees you".
Just saying, the rules have many many words that don't get strictly defined, and those words fill countless question forums because context changes meaning. Most immediately available uses of 'visible' are only regarding the invisible state, and most rules for movement, combat, and spellcasting that don't engage with invisibility use the standard phrases we know, which are not the word 'visible'. Not hard and fast, but visible usually means "not invisible". And when the rule concerns plain sight or concealment, 'visible' is not used.
"visible" in the wording of the Detect Magic spell is used so players have to visually see and inspect the magic that is detected, otherwise what's the point of using an action to see what the aura and school of magic is?
just because a window is behind a set of curtains, does that mean if the curtains are closed one can see the window or the window is "visible"? ( to see the window behind the curtains, one must make the window "visible" by moving the curtains aside )
in most games, the color of the aura is tied to and indicates the school of magic. if multiple colors are "seen", then the aura will look like a rainbow meaning multiple enchantments may be present.
As for invisible creatures and objects, when Detect magic is used that "Invisible" object/creature will set the sense part of the spell off, and if that "Invisible" creature/object is "hidden in plain sight" then using an action to investigate and "see" the aura that surrounds it is one way to confirm if indeed the object/creature is "visible".
[ personally as a player and DM when Detect Magic is used, I tend to imagine a tiny glowing orb ( only the caster can see ) in the center of whatever's magical and points to where that creature/object is located. ]
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Apart from other questions, I believe what happens is, you cast the spell, and can sense magic. Then you take an action, and any magical visible thing in 30 ft gets an aura. You don't specifically have to select which items you want to discern.
I didn't think of this before, I just like realized to read the dictionary definition, and in common nontechnical language, visible means "able to be seen", not "seen". a hidden non-invisible magic pocketwatch is able to be seen, under certain circumstances. the circumstances occurring or not does not effect its innate ability to be seen. so by the dictionary it's visible until it's not possibly able to be seen. feel like this is also why 'visible' doesn't appear in other rules. hope i'm not pedantic but common language came up and i'm on a time crunch.
You're so close. A hidden, non-invisible magic pocketwatch is able to be seen, under certain circumstances. The circumstances occurring or not does affect its ability to be seen. You just said exactly that. If the circumstances permit it to be seen, then it's visible. If they don't, you need to change the circumstances until you can see it, whereupon it becomes visible.
By the dictionary definition, which is the relevant one here since D&D doesn't provide a technical definition, it's visible until it's "not possibly able to be seen." That's exactly right! And if it's inside an opaque box, it's "not possibly able to be seen" until you open the box.
"hey man, that thing we lost that we'll never find, is that thing able to be seen?"
"yeah of course."
boom, visible. ability = potential.
thanks for the help everyone, it was great to hear all sides of this 🙏
hope it didn't seem nyah nyah or anything 😊
jic you're curious for your own rulings or anything, my dm looked the thread over and she ruled:
- of course no aura for invisible, that wasn't an issue
- an actively hiding character doesn't show an aura no matter what, neither do any magic items they carry
- invisibility of course will show up vaguely that there is magic nearby, but if i try the aura action and deduce that it's invisibility when i see no auras, i can, if the flow of the game allows, use the aura action + searching to vaguely know like, north south east west, probably once per area, and it would only show up as 'magic' not 'invisibility' (we haven't run into that yet, but something vague we'll iron out [i didn't ask but she thinks it's a good idea])
- barriers have to be kinda be pretty purposeful, built barriers to block the spell, like a ramshackle pile of stone or a loose collection of sand will not, but masonry or pretty solid skillfully improvised barricade of metal armor or weapons will, case by case
- actively searching through a loot pile would show a directional vague aura of a covered item at the bottom
so generally she left leeway but also added some deliberate effort to make it flow better and not just auto x-ray for magic
in our plan for the rogue to signal, i've told them instead to either carry 2 items with different schools on them, that while invisible or hiding they could drop one of which to signal 'yes' or 'no', or they can turn visible, use pixie dust, and depending on where i see the aura, i'll know yes or no
thanks again everybody for your thoughts, they were super helpful, and not like, me trolling. i wanted the dm to see as many opinions as possible. cheers 🍻