With gloomstalker's ability to be permantly invisible in darkness at lvl 3, Thematically I would think it's not a see through type of invisible but more of an ultimate camouflage.
In this line of thinking, can the gloomstalker stand in front of a smaller ally and thus the ally couldn't be seen either? Thus it gains invisible status until positions change?
RAW, it carries the invisible condition, which is simplified to transparency. You can try to read between the lines based on the description of the subclass and the feature and decide if the gloom stalker (as opposed to the gloomstalker) disappearing in darkness is meant to represent a form of superior camouflage, and then you can decide whether someone behind them should also be obscured. It feels like an edge case, so it may not really matter that much.
RAW, no... although the Gloomstalker's ability is described as being a form of unique evasion, mechanically it is literally the Invisible condition, which would allow creatures that are seeing in the dark using Darkvision to see right through the Gloomstalker and clearly see anything behind them. On top of that, despite how much sense it logically makes, standing in front of a small creature does not hide them. You can tell because the Lightfoot Halfling has a unique feature that allows them to hide behind creatures that are one size larger than them... which implies that it's not an option for any creature that doesn't have that unique feature.
RAW ... as said several times .. no :). Invisibility is invisibility - you can see through a creature with the invisible condition.
Why does it work this way? Magic. Perhaps the Gloomstalker has become so adept at hiding in the dark that they cause the shadows to bend the small amount of light present in darkness around them preventing them being seen by a creature using darkvision.
Allowing someone to hide behind the gloomstalker opens up a bunch of questions that I, as a DM, would prefer to avoid in my games.
From the perspective of the creature watching, what exactly does it look like the creature is hiding behind when the gloomstalker steps in front of them or they hide behind the gloomstalker? If the observer can't see the cover then it isn't possible to hide behind it and if they can see the cover then they can see the gloomstalker providing the cover and shoot at it. In addition, if the gloomstalker stood in front of the other creature, how can they tell if they are blocking vision to all of it - is there an arm, foot, leg poking out visible beyond the gloomstalker, does the creature behind the gloomstalker remain completely motionless?
Too many questions, too many corner cases, too much effort to try to DM it - since from my perspective - if the Gloomstalker provides cover for a creature to be hidden behind then the gloomstalker must be visible to the creature watching - if the gloomstalker is not visible then there is nothing to be hidden behind or to obstruct the view.
People standing behind people can already receive some degree of cover from attacks. The amount of cover a given situation provides is a judgment call for the DM to make. Being behind a transparent person, however... that's a different story. What if you're standing behind the transparent, invisible person and someone shoots an arrow at you? Does it just go harmlessly through the invisible person? Does the attacker receive a penalty to hit due to transparent partial cover they don't even perceive?
An invisible creature is impossible to see without the aid of magic or a special sense. For the purposes of hiding, the creature is heavily obscured. The creature’s location can be detected by any noise it makes or any tracks it leaves.
All we really know about how one creature perceives an invisible second creature is summarized in the condition itself, and it is pretty specific to the invisible creature. The description doesn’t give us the tools in the game to say what the effects of any perception of anything besides that invisible creature.
The obvious implication of that is that nothing but the invisible creature is affected. You see everything else normally.
But, the phrase “the creature is heavily obscured” for the purpose of hiding might give a DM wiggle room to rule that invisible creatures (or their area) block vision entirely (i.e. are opaque).
Whether the invisible creature is opaque or transparent is really immaterial to the actual question here though, which is whether you should allow a character’s class benefit to extend to a different character. I generally would rule no if there isn’t some provision in the ability or some other obvious way to extend it to another character. Because of that, I would tend to rule on the safe side that the gloom stalker is see through and trying to hide behind them is like trying to hide behind a sheet of Saran Wrap.
standing in front of a small creature does not hide them. You can tell because the Lightfoot Halfling has a unique feature that allows them to hide behind creatures that are one size larger than them... which implies that it's not an option for any creature that doesn't have that unique feature.
I don't know for you but i would rule that an invisible creature doesn't obscure an Halfling trying to hide behind.
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With gloomstalker's ability to be permantly invisible in darkness at lvl 3, Thematically I would think it's not a see through type of invisible but more of an ultimate camouflage.
In this line of thinking, can the gloomstalker stand in front of a smaller ally and thus the ally couldn't be seen either? Thus it gains invisible status until positions change?
Mechanically, it works the same as regular invisibility and the ally would still be visible.
Having the Invisible condition doesn't visually conceal anything past you in any way, quite the opposite!
RAW, it carries the invisible condition, which is simplified to transparency. You can try to read between the lines based on the description of the subclass and the feature and decide if the gloom stalker (as opposed to the gloomstalker) disappearing in darkness is meant to represent a form of superior camouflage, and then you can decide whether someone behind them should also be obscured. It feels like an edge case, so it may not really matter that much.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
RAW, no... although the Gloomstalker's ability is described as being a form of unique evasion, mechanically it is literally the Invisible condition, which would allow creatures that are seeing in the dark using Darkvision to see right through the Gloomstalker and clearly see anything behind them. On top of that, despite how much sense it logically makes, standing in front of a small creature does not hide them. You can tell because the Lightfoot Halfling has a unique feature that allows them to hide behind creatures that are one size larger than them... which implies that it's not an option for any creature that doesn't have that unique feature.
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RAW ... as said several times .. no :). Invisibility is invisibility - you can see through a creature with the invisible condition.
Why does it work this way? Magic. Perhaps the Gloomstalker has become so adept at hiding in the dark that they cause the shadows to bend the small amount of light present in darkness around them preventing them being seen by a creature using darkvision.
Allowing someone to hide behind the gloomstalker opens up a bunch of questions that I, as a DM, would prefer to avoid in my games.
From the perspective of the creature watching, what exactly does it look like the creature is hiding behind when the gloomstalker steps in front of them or they hide behind the gloomstalker? If the observer can't see the cover then it isn't possible to hide behind it and if they can see the cover then they can see the gloomstalker providing the cover and shoot at it. In addition, if the gloomstalker stood in front of the other creature, how can they tell if they are blocking vision to all of it - is there an arm, foot, leg poking out visible beyond the gloomstalker, does the creature behind the gloomstalker remain completely motionless?
Too many questions, too many corner cases, too much effort to try to DM it - since from my perspective - if the Gloomstalker provides cover for a creature to be hidden behind then the gloomstalker must be visible to the creature watching - if the gloomstalker is not visible then there is nothing to be hidden behind or to obstruct the view.
People standing behind people can already receive some degree of cover from attacks. The amount of cover a given situation provides is a judgment call for the DM to make. Being behind a transparent person, however... that's a different story. What if you're standing behind the transparent, invisible person and someone shoots an arrow at you? Does it just go harmlessly through the invisible person? Does the attacker receive a penalty to hit due to transparent partial cover they don't even perceive?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Creature are obstacle that provide half-cover wether they can be seen or not.
Ah, I just saw where this is laid out.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
All we really know about how one creature perceives an invisible second creature is summarized in the condition itself, and it is pretty specific to the invisible creature. The description doesn’t give us the tools in the game to say what the effects of any perception of anything besides that invisible creature.
The obvious implication of that is that nothing but the invisible creature is affected. You see everything else normally.
But, the phrase “the creature is heavily obscured” for the purpose of hiding might give a DM wiggle room to rule that invisible creatures (or their area) block vision entirely (i.e. are opaque).
Whether the invisible creature is opaque or transparent is really immaterial to the actual question here though, which is whether you should allow a character’s class benefit to extend to a different character. I generally would rule no if there isn’t some provision in the ability or some other obvious way to extend it to another character. Because of that, I would tend to rule on the safe side that the gloom stalker is see through and trying to hide behind them is like trying to hide behind a sheet of Saran Wrap.
Yep, standard cover rules will take care of any partial benefit conferred from standing behind another creature, whether they are visible or not.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I don't know for you but i would rule that an invisible creature doesn't obscure an Halfling trying to hide behind.