l had a idea, and l was wondering how it would work, without breaking the rules. Obviously the DM has final say, but l want others opinions on the idea.
1: Cast Magic stone (bonus action) (bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your spellcasting ability modifier. on a hit)
2: Cast Catapult ( 3d8 bludgeoning damage on failed dex save) and use Twin spell meta magic to effect two magic stones.
Would this combo work, and if so, how? Since i'm launching them with catapult, I think it would be "on a failed Dex save, they take 3d8+1d6 bludgeoning each.(6d8+2d6) (Plus S.A.M.)"
(Matt Mercer allowed catapult to effect two objects, but l am aware that part of the plan is subject to dm discretion.)
So, could l stack the damage, or would it be one or the other?
So, the answer is, as expected, "Only if your dm allows it, but not RAW". Thanks for comfirming!
Catapulting the stones doesn't fulfill the description of magic stone for making the attack by throwing or using a sling. I would say no, they don't stack. You get the 3d8 or you get the 1d6+bonus.
1 Magic stone's effect requires an attack (in specific ways) so catapult wouldn't meet its conditions.
2 Twinned spell metamagic requires spells that target a creature. Catapult targets an object.
Catapult's primary target is a point in space, so it immediately fails Twinned Spell even before you get into secondary targets.
Actually, i don’t think it is. The spell asks you to choose an object within range. That is verbatim the target. Then it asks you to choose where to throw it. That’s the effect. The target must be within the spell’s range (60’) and you can choose to catapult the object 90’.
Besides the arguments above against combining the damage from the two spells, magic stone and catapult could not be cast on the same turn (this was not specified, but I think implied in the original poster's query), due to the fact that catapult is a levelled spell, which cannot be cast in the same turn as a bonus action spell (even if the BA spell is a cantrip).
Besides the arguments above against combining the damage from the two spells, magic stone and catapult could not be cast on the same turn (this was not specified, but I think implied in the original poster's query), due to the fact that catapult is a levelled spell, which cannot be cast in the same turn as a bonus action spell (even if the BA spell is a cantrip).
Um, Cantrips are able to be cast along side a leveled spell, last l checked, the only issue with multiple spells on the same turn came from trying to use a leveled spell as a bonus action, but since it's a cantrip, there shouldn't be any problems
The rule is that if you cast a bonus action spell (magic stone) then your action can only be spent on a cantrip. Catapult is not a cantrip.
Just looked. It says HERE that (Specifically in regards to the bonus action) "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
The Rules involving spells are very confusing. My understanding of the rule was that, if you cast a leveled spell with your bonus action ( for example, Healing word) then you can only use a cantrip that turn, but if the bonus action was a cantrip, you're free to use a leveled spell as your action (And second action with action surge if you're a fighter)
But that isn’t quite what it says. It says that if you cast a spell with your bonus action, you are limited to a cantrip with your action. That would include a cantrip bonus action spell.
Your DM said no. That is the only answer you need.
1: Bold of you to assume I've brought this idea to my DM before asking here.
2: Bold of you to assume I'm not the DM, wanting to check the rules before having to deal with it at the table.
3: Bold of you to assume l Currently Have a DM, instead of just being curious about the logistics and legality of the described plan. (It's this. I had the idea, and wanted to know how/if it would work)
I was checking on this now. Can a pebble weigh 1 lbs min? By the book. Googling it, it says, After measuring several pebbles of different sizes, I determined that the average weight of a pebble is about 1 gram (. 035 ounces).
I was checking on this now. Can a pebble weigh 1 lbs min? By the book. Googling it, it says, After measuring several pebbles of different sizes, I determined that the average weight of a pebble is about 1 gram (. 035 ounces).
I wouldn't expect so, but maybe. To me pebble is more determined by size than weight, and while most small rocks wouldn't weigh a pound, a particularly dense one (which wouldn't be easy to find) might. But it is whatever your DM says, there isn't a by the books answer for "pebble size/weight".
I was checking on this now. Can a pebble weigh 1 lbs min? By the book. Googling it, it says, After measuring several pebbles of different sizes, I determined that the average weight of a pebble is about 1 gram (. 035 ounces).
By definition, a pebble has a diameter of 4–64 mm (0.16–2.52 in). Taking the largest possible pebble, we can see that a 1.26 inch radius pebble has a volume of about 8.37916 cubic inches. 1 pound in that volume is a density of 3,303.42238 kg / m. That's substantially less dense than osmium or iridium, both of which clock in at over 22,000 kg / m^3. So yes, a 1 pound pebble is well within standard Earth English assumptions.
While within the range of achievable densities on earth, most rocks are not so dense, a quick google says they tend to average up to about 3 kg/L, rather than the 3.3 kg/L that quindraco calculated would be required.
Additionally, the rules give us a slight bit of guidance that sling bullets weigh about 1.2 ounces max (excluding the container you buy them in, but maybe less). I imagine that slings would work well for objects around that weight and sling pebbles would probably range in the same weight. You can definitely find rocks that weigh a pound, but probably not ones that you’d call sling stones.
But even still, that isn’t the main reason that catapult doesn’t work with magic stones.
l had a idea, and l was wondering how it would work, without breaking the rules. Obviously the DM has final say, but l want others opinions on the idea.
1: Cast Magic stone (bonus action) (bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your spellcasting ability modifier. on a hit)
2: Cast Catapult ( 3d8 bludgeoning damage on failed dex save) and use Twin spell meta magic to effect two magic stones.
Would this combo work, and if so, how? Since i'm launching them with catapult, I think it would be "on a failed Dex save, they take 3d8+1d6 bludgeoning each.(6d8+2d6) (Plus S.A.M.)"
(Matt Mercer allowed catapult to effect two objects, but l am aware that part of the plan is subject to dm discretion.)
So, could l stack the damage, or would it be one or the other?
So, the answer is, as expected, "Only if your dm allows it, but not RAW". Thanks for comfirming!
Catapulting the stones doesn't fulfill the description of magic stone for making the attack by throwing or using a sling. I would say no, they don't stack. You get the 3d8 or you get the 1d6+bonus.
Any house rules aside:
1 Magic stone's effect requires an attack (in specific ways) so catapult wouldn't meet its conditions.
2 Twinned spell metamagic requires spells that target a creature. Catapult targets an object.
Catapult's primary target is a point in space, so it immediately fails Twinned Spell even before you get into secondary targets.
Regardless of if it targets "one object weighing 1 to 5 pounds within range," or a point in space, it can't be twinned is my point.
Actually, i don’t think it is. The spell asks you to choose an object within range. That is verbatim the target. Then it asks you to choose where to throw it. That’s the effect. The target must be within the spell’s range (60’) and you can choose to catapult the object 90’.
Besides the arguments above against combining the damage from the two spells, magic stone and catapult could not be cast on the same turn (this was not specified, but I think implied in the original poster's query), due to the fact that catapult is a levelled spell, which cannot be cast in the same turn as a bonus action spell (even if the BA spell is a cantrip).
Um, Cantrips are able to be cast along side a leveled spell, last l checked, the only issue with multiple spells on the same turn came from trying to use a leveled spell as a bonus action, but since it's a cantrip, there shouldn't be any problems
The rule is that if you cast a bonus action spell (magic stone) then your action can only be spent on a cantrip. Catapult is not a cantrip.
Just looked. It says HERE that (Specifically in regards to the bonus action) "You can’t cast another spell during the same turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action."
The Rules involving spells are very confusing. My understanding of the rule was that, if you cast a leveled spell with your bonus action ( for example, Healing word) then you can only use a cantrip that turn, but if the bonus action was a cantrip, you're free to use a leveled spell as your action (And second action with action surge if you're a fighter)
But that isn’t quite what it says. It says that if you cast a spell with your bonus action, you are limited to a cantrip with your action. That would include a cantrip bonus action spell.
As far as I can tell, you guys are agreeing what the rule is (with Newper also adding that they misunderstood it before looking it up, which is fair).
Sure that was the only thing they needed at the time, but now they are asking about the rules specifically.
1: Bold of you to assume I've brought this idea to my DM before asking here.
2: Bold of you to assume I'm not the DM, wanting to check the rules before having to deal with it at the table.
3: Bold of you to assume l Currently Have a DM, instead of just being curious about the logistics and legality of the described plan. (It's this. I had the idea, and wanted to know how/if it would work)
I was checking on this now. Can a pebble weigh 1 lbs min? By the book. Googling it, it says, After measuring several pebbles of different sizes, I determined that the average weight of a pebble is about 1 gram (. 035 ounces).
I wouldn't expect so, but maybe. To me pebble is more determined by size than weight, and while most small rocks wouldn't weigh a pound, a particularly dense one (which wouldn't be easy to find) might. But it is whatever your DM says, there isn't a by the books answer for "pebble size/weight".
By definition, a pebble has a diameter of 4–64 mm (0.16–2.52 in). Taking the largest possible pebble, we can see that a 1.26 inch radius pebble has a volume of about 8.37916 cubic inches. 1 pound in that volume is a density of 3,303.42238 kg / m. That's substantially less dense than osmium or iridium, both of which clock in at over 22,000 kg / m^3. So yes, a 1 pound pebble is well within standard Earth English assumptions.
While within the range of achievable densities on earth, most rocks are not so dense, a quick google says they tend to average up to about 3 kg/L, rather than the 3.3 kg/L that quindraco calculated would be required.
Additionally, the rules give us a slight bit of guidance that sling bullets weigh about 1.2 ounces max (excluding the container you buy them in, but maybe less). I imagine that slings would work well for objects around that weight and sling pebbles would probably range in the same weight. You can definitely find rocks that weigh a pound, but probably not ones that you’d call sling stones.
But even still, that isn’t the main reason that catapult doesn’t work with magic stones.