So Shadow Blade states "If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn. Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand."
Question is, as a 6th lvl Bladesinger, can you throw your Shadow Blade, bonus action it back to you and the use your Extra Attack to throw it again? Or, because it states it "dissipates at the end of the turn" does that imply you can't recall it to you until it actually dissipates, meaning next turn and not the current turn?
As I recall, I don't think that you can break up the multiple attacks from Extra Attack to perform a Bonus Action between them, although I do believe you can move between attacks. So even if you could re-summon the Shadow Blade on the same turn that it's thrown or dropped, you still couldn't Bonus Action recall it between attacks.
The ability to interrupt your attack sequence with movement is given as an exception to the normal rules for movement. I'm sure one could argue that means you can't usually interrupt those attacks with anything. I'm not sure that's perfectly solid as an argument. But close enough.
am I correct that, assuming everything hits, it's a whooping 11d8+30 potential psychic damage?
I would probably subtract 2 from that because I don't think that the Duelling fighting style works when you throw the weapon. But IIRC there was never a consensus on the issue.
I believe you're still considered wielding a weapon when making ranged weapon attack with one so Dueling Fighting Style should work with thrown weapons.
Let's add booming blade to one of those attacks (Sage advice and JC confirmed)
Where in Sage Advice Compendium it is confirmed? The latest errata meant that RAW you can't cast Booming Blade with a Shadow Blade because it's not a weapon worth at least 1 sp that meet the material component criteria, but the Dev indeed said he would still allow the combo on X but there is no official ruling support for it to my memory.
So level 6 BladeSinger, level 3 Battlemaster with 18 Dex.
Lets assume point buy for a 16 in Int and Dex and a 12 or 13 in Con and you took an ASI to bump your Dex to get that 18. Start Fighter for proficiency in Con saves and Studded Leather as it is the best light armor. This means you have a 19 AC and a +8 to Con saves. If you went a race option that grants a feat Warcaster is the go to pick. Lets assume you are attacking an enemy with the typical AC for a CR 9 creature, 16.
Round 2: Cast Shadow Blade at 3rd level, Attack with one regular attack and one Booming Blade (for arguement's sake we will go with it). Expected damage: 29.85, or 41.24 with advantage from dim light.
Round 3: Attack with one Goading Attack and one Booming Blade with Goading Attack as well, Action Surge, Attack with one Goading Attack and one Booming Blade, Quick Toss (This has disadvantage from being in melee with an enemy). Expected Damage: 79.34 or 112.15 with advantage from dim light.
That is a total of 109.19 expected damage, or 153.39 in the best case scenario.
For reference a PAM+GWM Path of the Zealot Barbarian with an 18 Strength has an expected damage of 37.47 on round 1, and an expected damage of 51.06 on rounds 2 and 3 for a total expected damage of 139.60.
So it is a strong build, but not unreasonably so. Just watch out for Dispel Magic.
The ability to interrupt your attack sequence with movement is given as an exception to the normal rules for movement. I'm sure one could argue that means you can't usually interrupt those attacks with anything. I'm not sure that's perfectly solid as an argument. But close enough.
Except the rules for bonus actions explicitly state that unless the bonus action specifies its timing then you can choose when to take the bonus action during your turn which would include the time between attacks of the attack action or at any time during a character's movement.
I'm not sure where people get the idea that actions are atomic in 5e and must be fully completed before a character can do something else.
A wizard can cast a spell then use counterspell as a reaction, while casting that spell, within the "cast a spell action", to prevent another creature from counterspelling it. Or the wizard could use shield while casting the spell if another character readied an action to attack when the wizard starts casting a spell (though that trigger is DM discretion since usually a trigger must complete before the reaction is taken which is usually interpreted to mean that the spell is successfully cast before the reaction gets to go).
A Fighter cleric could attack, move, cast healing word, move some more and then use extra attack.
A fighter/rogue could move, attack, move, bonus action hide, move some more, then attack again using extra attack, then move some more (assuming they have movement left).
Bonus action rule for reference:
"Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a bonus action. The Cunning Action feature, for example, allows a rogue to take a bonus action. You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a bonus action. You otherwise don’t have a bonus action to take.
You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action’s timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action."
Or crossbow expert. You could draw the crossbow and make another attack with it as a bonus action after you’re out of battlemaster manoeuvres. You lose out on +1 DEX though.
Or crossbow expert. You could draw the crossbow and make another attack with it as a bonus action after you’re out of battlemaster manoeuvres. You lose out on +1 DEX though.
Before attacking with a hand crossbow this way, you must have a hand free to load it though so you would need to drop your Shadow Blade.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Hey everyone
So Shadow Blade states "If you drop the weapon or throw it, it dissipates at the end of the turn. Thereafter, while the spell persists, you can use a bonus action to cause the sword to reappear in your hand."
Question is, as a 6th lvl Bladesinger, can you throw your Shadow Blade, bonus action it back to you and the use your Extra Attack to throw it again? Or, because it states it "dissipates at the end of the turn" does that imply you can't recall it to you until it actually dissipates, meaning next turn and not the current turn?
Cheers
By RAW, the latter. One throw per turn.
You aren't "recalling" it, rather you are "rematerializing" it from a magical cloud of shadow stuff.
Ahh gotcha, thats what I was leaning towards just wanted to double check, thanks!
You could, however, walk over and pick it up before it dissipates.
The spell specifically says "thereafter", which means you cannot use your Bonus Action to reappear the sword until after it has dissipated.
Hey guys!
Quick question on this topic.
Battlemaster + bladesinger 6
I envision something like this:
Attack + extra attack + action surge + BA quick toss, let's say dex 18 and dueling fighting style.
am I correct that, assuming everything hits, it's a whooping 11d8+30 potential psychic damage?
Yes up to 2d8+6 l 2d8+6 l 2d8+6 l 2d8+6 l 3d8+6
Just be aware that the Quick Throw attack will have disadvantage if a hostile creature is within 5ft of you.
*Edit* And you wouldn't have the Shadow Blade for any opportunity attacks.
As I recall, I don't think that you can break up the multiple attacks from Extra Attack to perform a Bonus Action between them, although I do believe you can move between attacks. So even if you could re-summon the Shadow Blade on the same turn that it's thrown or dropped, you still couldn't Bonus Action recall it between attacks.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
I believe you can take bonus action anytime yo want on your turn unless noted otherwise, such as when a specific timing is provided.
The ability to interrupt your attack sequence with movement is given as an exception to the normal rules for movement. I'm sure one could argue that means you can't usually interrupt those attacks with anything. I'm not sure that's perfectly solid as an argument. But close enough.
I would probably subtract 2 from that because I don't think that the Duelling fighting style works when you throw the weapon. But IIRC there was never a consensus on the issue.
I believe you're still considered wielding a weapon when making ranged weapon attack with one so Dueling Fighting Style should work with thrown weapons.
While not official ruling, it's also the opinion of the Dev: Does the Dueling Style apply to a thrown melee weapon? (sageadvice.eu)
Thanks guys!
Soooooooo, just for memes:
1st round: Mirror image (action) and bladesong.(bonus action)
2nd round: Shadow blade, circle around your target, singing.
3rd round: Go boom, upcast Shadow blade (3rd) so +5d8 to the total mentioned earlier.
Le'ts add the other 3d8 from battlemaster.
Let's add booming blade to one of those attacks (Sage advice and JC confirmed)
A funny total of 20d8+30. At lvl 9.
And you're still a wizard with most of your spell slots!
FFFFFFFFFFFFFF.....Ind familiar.
Just kidding, FIREBALL!
Where in Sage Advice Compendium it is confirmed? The latest errata meant that RAW you can't cast Booming Blade with a Shadow Blade because it's not a weapon worth at least 1 sp that meet the material component criteria, but the Dev indeed said he would still allow the combo on X but there is no official ruling support for it to my memory.
So level 6 BladeSinger, level 3 Battlemaster with 18 Dex.
Lets assume point buy for a 16 in Int and Dex and a 12 or 13 in Con and you took an ASI to bump your Dex to get that 18. Start Fighter for proficiency in Con saves and Studded Leather as it is the best light armor. This means you have a 19 AC and a +8 to Con saves. If you went a race option that grants a feat Warcaster is the go to pick. Lets assume you are attacking an enemy with the typical AC for a CR 9 creature, 16.
Round 1: Cast Mirror Image, start Bladesong. Expected damage 0.
Round 2: Cast Shadow Blade at 3rd level, Attack with one regular attack and one Booming Blade (for arguement's sake we will go with it). Expected damage: 29.85, or 41.24 with advantage from dim light.
Round 3: Attack with one Goading Attack and one Booming Blade with Goading Attack as well, Action Surge, Attack with one Goading Attack and one Booming Blade, Quick Toss (This has disadvantage from being in melee with an enemy). Expected Damage: 79.34 or 112.15 with advantage from dim light.
That is a total of 109.19 expected damage, or 153.39 in the best case scenario.
For reference a PAM+GWM Path of the Zealot Barbarian with an 18 Strength has an expected damage of 37.47 on round 1, and an expected damage of 51.06 on rounds 2 and 3 for a total expected damage of 139.60.
So it is a strong build, but not unreasonably so. Just watch out for Dispel Magic.
Except the rules for bonus actions explicitly state that unless the bonus action specifies its timing then you can choose when to take the bonus action during your turn which would include the time between attacks of the attack action or at any time during a character's movement.
I'm not sure where people get the idea that actions are atomic in 5e and must be fully completed before a character can do something else.
A wizard can cast a spell then use counterspell as a reaction, while casting that spell, within the "cast a spell action", to prevent another creature from counterspelling it. Or the wizard could use shield while casting the spell if another character readied an action to attack when the wizard starts casting a spell (though that trigger is DM discretion since usually a trigger must complete before the reaction is taken which is usually interpreted to mean that the spell is successfully cast before the reaction gets to go).
A Fighter cleric could attack, move, cast healing word, move some more and then use extra attack.
A fighter/rogue could move, attack, move, bonus action hide, move some more, then attack again using extra attack, then move some more (assuming they have movement left).
Bonus action rule for reference:
"Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a bonus action. The Cunning Action feature, for example, allows a rogue to take a bonus action. You can take a bonus action only when a special ability, spell, or other feature of the game states that you can do something as a bonus action. You otherwise don’t have a bonus action to take.
You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available.
You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action’s timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action."
Thank you so much for the insight on this! And I actually was not considering the damage per round economy, appreciated
Right, the disadvantage for Quick Toss.
....Gunner Feat?
Or crossbow expert. You could draw the crossbow and make another attack with it as a bonus action after you’re out of battlemaster manoeuvres. You lose out on +1 DEX though.
I can’t remember what’s supposed to go here.
Before attacking with a hand crossbow this way, you must have a hand free to load it though so you would need to drop your Shadow Blade.