So my buddy and I decided to have a fun little 1v1 session, play testing our new characters at higher levels. At one point during our duel, he cast Slow and had hit me with Tasha's Mind Whip as well. Now, this is where we didn't agree and left it requiring more information:
I was slowed, and could only choose an action.
I chose Dash to move my full regular 55'
We argued whether Dashing as an action still counts as "movement" vs "action" due to Tasha's. He argued I can't use the Dash action because it requires Movement as... the action. I argued that the spells effect is still completely valid, I would just be moving longer (and shortly out of the slow radius). He disagreed.
I ultimately settled on just avoiding further discussion, and continued on. But I've not considered the situation before and would like to know what you guys think, or just set me straight so I don't have to have a future argument in the shower.
The Dash action doesn't move you, it only doubles your speed. To actually get full use out of it you need to then move as well, which Tasha's Mind Whip won't allow you to do (as you've already used your action).
Feels a bit unsporting for a duel, but there are far worse combos a caster can throw at you.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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Slow: Your speed is halved, you can take either an action or a bonus action, not both
Mind Whip: you can only take the move action, an action, or an bonus action: one of these three
Dash Action: When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers.
This means in your turn you can either take the move action and move 27.5 feet, or take the dash action and increase your speed to 55 feet. However, by increasing your speed you are not yet moving. So with Slow and Tasha's Mind Whip, you cannot Dash and move at the same time, you can only move without dashing.
So my buddy and I decided to have a fun little 1v1 session, play testing our new characters at higher levels. At one point during our duel, he cast Slow and had hit me with Tasha's Mind Whip as well. Now, this is where we didn't agree and left it requiring more information:
Voras's post was essentially correct, but I want to provide some additional explicit detail.
I was slowed, and could only choose an action.
No. Slow + Tasha's Mind Whip means the economy part of Slow can be ignored, as Mind Whip's economy penalty is the same but worse: you can only do 1 of move, action, or bonus action.
I chose Dash to move my full regular 55'
Not how that works. If you Dash as your action, you won't be able to move, as per Voras's post - Dash increases your speed, it doesn't move you. Due to Mind Whip, you can't Dash and move.
We argued whether Dashing as an action still counts as "movement" vs "action" due to Tasha's. He argued I can't use the Dash action because it requires Movement as... the action. I argued that the spells effect is still completely valid, I would just be moving longer (and shortly out of the slow radius). He disagreed.
You are both wrong. You can Dash, and your speed will go up, but Mind Whip won't let you actually move. Or you can move without taking an action, in which case Slow will reduce your speed from 55 to "27.5", which, depending on how you're handling movement, may actually let you go only 27 feet (if movement has to be in integer feet) or 25 feet (if using a square or hex grid).
So my buddy and I decided to have a fun little 1v1 session, play testing our new characters at higher levels. At one point during our duel, he cast Slow and had hit me with Tasha's Mind Whip as well. Now, this is where we didn't agree and left it requiring more information:
Voras's post was essentially correct, but I want to provide some additional explicit detail.
I was slowed, and could only choose an action.
No. Slow + Tasha's Mind Whip means the economy part of Slow can be ignored, as Mind Whip's economy penalty is the same but worse: you can only do 1 of move, action, or bonus action.
I chose Dash to move my full regular 55'
Not how that works. If you Dash as your action, you won't be able to move, as per Voras's post - Dash increases your speed, it doesn't move you. Due to Mind Whip, you can't Dash and move.
We argued whether Dashing as an action still counts as "movement" vs "action" due to Tasha's. He argued I can't use the Dash action because it requires Movement as... the action. I argued that the spells effect is still completely valid, I would just be moving longer (and shortly out of the slow radius). He disagreed.
You are both wrong. You can Dash, and your speed will go up, but Mind Whip won't let you actually move. Or you can move without taking an action, in which case Slow will reduce your speed from 55 to "27.5", which, depending on how you're handling movement, may actually let you go only 27 feet (if movement has to be in integer feet) or 25 feet (if using a square or hex grid).
Okay, I can understand that. And I really appreciate the response. But a quick follow up... if Slow is a 40' cube radius, and I was only 20' in, using my movement of 25 to get out of the radius, would my movement then raise back to full (minus what I've already moved?) Or would I be left with only 5' remaining?
Slow is not a 40' cube of effect. Slow effects 6 creatures of the caster's choice in a given 40' cube when it's cast. The effects then remain on those creatures that failed the save until the spell ends or they succeed on another save.
Gotcha. Not having the personal inclination to juggling dozens of spells makes it a little harder for me to understand the nuances of them. I really appreciate all your guys' responses and clarifications though, I apologized to my buddy for letting myself get worked up, like Plaguescarred mentioned, I had it in my head that Dashing was the whole "Action" not just... a bonus to a separate mechanic.
Gotcha. Not having the personal inclination to juggling dozens of spells makes it a little harder for me to understand the nuances of them. I really appreciate all your guys' responses and clarifications though, I apologized to my buddy for letting myself get worked up, like Plaguescarred mentioned, I had it in my head that Dashing was the whole "Action" not just... a bonus to a separate mechanic.
It’s kinda irrelevant though. Tasha’s only lasts until the end of your next turn. So even though it’s very good, it is still quite limited in what your opponent could follow up with. Depending on battlefield positions once they cast slow, you could still get out of line of sight or range if you dashed. Tasha’s has a range of 90ft and requires sight to target you.
Gotcha. Not having the personal inclination to juggling dozens of spells makes it a little harder for me to understand the nuances of them. I really appreciate all your guys' responses and clarifications though, I apologized to my buddy for letting myself get worked up, like Plaguescarred mentioned, I had it in my head that Dashing was the whole "Action" not just... a bonus to a separate mechanic.
How did you tag Plaguescarred?
quindraco To tag a forum user just copy and past his profile name
Gotcha. Not having the personal inclination to juggling dozens of spells makes it a little harder for me to understand the nuances of them. I really appreciate all your guys' responses and clarifications though, I apologized to my buddy for letting myself get worked up, like Plaguescarred mentioned, I had it in my head that Dashing was the whole "Action" not just... a bonus to a separate mechanic.
It's not uncommon to run into oddities like this; half of the rules in D&D are written with a view to players and DM's filling in the blanks for themselves using common sense, but then a big chunk of the other half doesn't quite do what common sense says it should. 😂
I love the game, but there are definitely simpler systems where these kinds of issues don't come up in the first place. It's also very much not a game well suited to PvP; spellcaster vs. martial (barbarian, fighter etc.) pretty heavily favours the caster in 5th edition, as they have so many ways to target saves that martial characters are usually bad at, and it only takes one failed save to ruin your day if the caster has the right spells prepared. To run a proper deathmatch you really need a DM to act as a mediator to throw some help to those who are getting hammered, or take steps to balance the fight somehow (e.g- don't let casters arrive with all of their spell slots as if it's the start of the day).
But that's a bit off-topic for the thread; unfortunately in this case you were limited to 25-27.5 feet of movement for the turn.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
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Hi,
So my buddy and I decided to have a fun little 1v1 session, play testing our new characters at higher levels. At one point during our duel, he cast Slow and had hit me with Tasha's Mind Whip as well. Now, this is where we didn't agree and left it requiring more information:
I was slowed, and could only choose an action.
I chose Dash to move my full regular 55'
We argued whether Dashing as an action still counts as "movement" vs "action" due to Tasha's. He argued I can't use the Dash action because it requires Movement as... the action. I argued that the spells effect is still completely valid, I would just be moving longer (and shortly out of the slow radius). He disagreed.
I ultimately settled on just avoiding further discussion, and continued on. But I've not considered the situation before and would like to know what you guys think, or just set me straight so I don't have to have a future argument in the shower.
The Dash action doesn't move you, it only doubles your speed. To actually get full use out of it you need to then move as well, which Tasha's Mind Whip won't allow you to do (as you've already used your action).
Feels a bit unsporting for a duel, but there are far worse combos a caster can throw at you.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Slow: Your speed is halved, you can take either an action or a bonus action, not both
Mind Whip: you can only take the move action, an action, or an bonus action: one of these three
Dash Action: When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your speed, after applying any modifiers.
This means in your turn you can either take the move action and move 27.5 feet, or take the dash action and increase your speed to 55 feet. However, by increasing your speed you are not yet moving. So with Slow and Tasha's Mind Whip, you cannot Dash and move at the same time, you can only move without dashing.
Since 5E launch a lot of people incorrectly interpret Dash to be an action that make you move your speed. It's just a movement limit increaser.
Voras's post was essentially correct, but I want to provide some additional explicit detail.
No. Slow + Tasha's Mind Whip means the economy part of Slow can be ignored, as Mind Whip's economy penalty is the same but worse: you can only do 1 of move, action, or bonus action.
Not how that works. If you Dash as your action, you won't be able to move, as per Voras's post - Dash increases your speed, it doesn't move you. Due to Mind Whip, you can't Dash and move.
You are both wrong. You can Dash, and your speed will go up, but Mind Whip won't let you actually move. Or you can move without taking an action, in which case Slow will reduce your speed from 55 to "27.5", which, depending on how you're handling movement, may actually let you go only 27 feet (if movement has to be in integer feet) or 25 feet (if using a square or hex grid).
Okay, I can understand that. And I really appreciate the response. But a quick follow up... if Slow is a 40' cube radius, and I was only 20' in, using my movement of 25 to get out of the radius, would my movement then raise back to full (minus what I've already moved?) Or would I be left with only 5' remaining?
Slow is not a 40' cube of effect. Slow effects 6 creatures of the caster's choice in a given 40' cube when it's cast. The effects then remain on those creatures that failed the save until the spell ends or they succeed on another save.
Birgit | Shifter | Sorcerer | Dragonlords
Shayone | Hobgoblin | Sorcerer | Netherdeep
Gotcha. Not having the personal inclination to juggling dozens of spells makes it a little harder for me to understand the nuances of them. I really appreciate all your guys' responses and clarifications though, I apologized to my buddy for letting myself get worked up, like Plaguescarred mentioned, I had it in my head that Dashing was the whole "Action" not just... a bonus to a separate mechanic.
How did you tag Plaguescarred?
It’s kinda irrelevant though. Tasha’s only lasts until the end of your next turn. So even though it’s very good, it is still quite limited in what your opponent could follow up with. Depending on battlefield positions once they cast slow, you could still get out of line of sight or range if you dashed. Tasha’s has a range of 90ft and requires sight to target you.
quindraco To tag a forum user just copy and past his profile name
It's not uncommon to run into oddities like this; half of the rules in D&D are written with a view to players and DM's filling in the blanks for themselves using common sense, but then a big chunk of the other half doesn't quite do what common sense says it should. 😂
I love the game, but there are definitely simpler systems where these kinds of issues don't come up in the first place. It's also very much not a game well suited to PvP; spellcaster vs. martial (barbarian, fighter etc.) pretty heavily favours the caster in 5th edition, as they have so many ways to target saves that martial characters are usually bad at, and it only takes one failed save to ruin your day if the caster has the right spells prepared. To run a proper deathmatch you really need a DM to act as a mediator to throw some help to those who are getting hammered, or take steps to balance the fight somehow (e.g- don't let casters arrive with all of their spell slots as if it's the start of the day).
But that's a bit off-topic for the thread; unfortunately in this case you were limited to 25-27.5 feet of movement for the turn.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.