Hello all (and you John, I now know you are watching),
I have a beef with the Hexblade/Pact of the Blade, RAW. The FIRST sentence of Hexblade reads: You have made your pact with a mysterious entity from the Shadowfell — a force that manifests in sentient magic weapons carved from the stuff of shadow.
Warlock: Pact of the Blade reads, in context to this particular beef with WOTC, "You can transform one magic weapon into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual while you hold the weapon. You perform the ritual over the course of 1 hour, which can be done during a short rest. You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter. You can’t affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way.
W.T.F. WOTC?
Fellow DM's, how have you handled this? I am skilled in homebrewing things and can easily work around it. I am aware that I can change things to fit my game. But why the DIRECT contradiction?
Maybe some lamen-speaking MOD or employee of WOTC will shine the light of reason on this immersion-busting madness. Please don't give a: Its a balance issue. You wrote this.
Your Hexblade Patron weapon is not your pact weapon. One of the examples they give for a patron is blackrazor, and that is certainly not the weapon in the hands of a level 1 hexblade warlock.
I am a sentient weapon, not your plaything, foolish mortal! You don't get to shunt me away into some dank extradimensional hole whenever you feel like it!
:-)
As a GM I handled it by playing it RAW. Sentient weapons and artifacts are major plot items, important to the whole story of the campaign. Generally, a party will see one of these in the entire game. They are not something that any warlock can just make their pact weapon. That is what "lesser" weapons are for.
Ummm ... sentient weapons are not the subservient pact weapons of a blade pact warlock. They can't be enslaved to the warlock's will, sent to a demiplane at will, discarded and used as if they were mundane magical weapons. In fact, particular weapons may be the PATRON for the warlock, the warlock is harnessed to the will of the weapon not the other way around. The mysterious entity from the Shadowfell that may manifest as a sentient magical weapon doesn't allow the lowly warlock to enslave a sentient extension of the patron. The warlock has a pact with the patron, they don't dominate it. The warlock may obtain knowledge and power in exchange for services of some sort. The patron doesn't give part of itself to the warlock to wield as they will.
Personally, I don't really see a contradiction between a patron manifesting as a sentient weapon made out of shadow and a prohibition on a blade pact warlock being able to subjugate and enslave a sentient weapon to their will.
On the other hand, as a DM in my game world, if the sentient weapon was willing to bond with the warlock because of shared interests and goals and if the weapon could break the bond whenever they wished then I might allow a warlock to make a deal with a sentient weapon to also be a pact weapon - but it isn't a given and it would need the willing consent of the weapon in the circumstances.
Remember that Pact of the Blade and Hexblade are two separate things!
Hexblade is a pact made at 1st level with a 'Patron'. The rules are lose and really completely cosmetic as to how the Hexblades patron works. It states and alludes to "mysterious entity from the Shadowfell — a force that manifests in sentient magic weapons carved from the stuff of shadow". Its not the Artifact weapon itself, or the actual blade or weapon of the 'Entity'... but a facsimile or replica inspired by said Patron. The Patron here is really just a cosmetic effect and is for color. Give it as much Story, or as little, as you want. Its all up to the DM and player to flesh it out as much as they want for Story/Narrative value.
The Pact of the Blade is a class feature granted at 3rd level. Its one of several options. You can be a Hexblade and not choose Pact of the Blade, or a non-Hexblade warlock who chose Pact of the Blade. They are not specifically linked and need to be completely considered separately, though they do have a lot of obvious synergy! Pact of the Blade as a class feature allows any warlock to the powers listed in its description, with the biggest effects being use of Charisma for attack/damage as well as a insta-summon weapon.
So again, two distinct things that are often taken together, but sound similar and can compliment each other. An the actual Patron... is up for the DM (and player) to flesh out however they want. Does that help?
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Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
John here! Please be aware that I as a player, have little to no knowledge of my DM's (SirEvangelos) ideas/plans for the campaign.
What the real issue for me, the player, is that I want the weapon to be able to change forms (well aware of why WOTC mostly does not want players to do this with magic weapons I.E. Hammer of Thunderbolts or Javelin of Lightning). The hexblade pact weapon lets me conjure any type of weapon with the Improved pact of the blade invocation. I like that I could summon the correct weapon for each situation. For example if I fight skeletons I can summon a bludgeoning weapon, if I fight zombies I can summon a slashing, or if I fight fliers I could summon a bow. The hang-up for me was that when I gained this special weapon the DM provided I didn't realize that it would restrict this very powerful ability to change the form of my weapon. Currently the weapon while attuned allows me to use my proficiency bonus for arcana checks, it also allows on a die roll of 20 I can deal an extra 10 necro damage to non-undead and constructs and gain 10 temp HP. (again no idea what it may do in the future)
I also don't like that I am unable to hide the weapon in the extra-dimensional space, for many role playing reasons as well as functionality. I guess I can live with that but the top part is a real issue for me. Being able to switch the weapon to a different type is HUGE. I cannot emphasize that enough! Also does that mean if I bond this magic weapon that if I get more than 5 feet away or 1 minute out of my reach the weapon does the weapon disappear or not? Per the Warlock class "Your pact weapon disappears if it is more than 5 feet away from you for 1 minute or more. It also disappears if you use this feature again, if you dismiss the weapon (no action required), or if you die"
I know the DM can do as he pleases (Very Well Aware of That) but looking if this issue is really a big deal (obviously for me it is) or maybe ideas for me or the DM or both.
Pact of the Blade was never intended to work with the Hexblade patron weapon. Your patron is supposed to be "... almost godlike in their power", so it doesn't make sense it would give you the power to banish it to an extradimensional space. The patron weapon will not disappear if you get more than 5 feet away from it, because you cannot perform the ritual on it to form that pact bond. If you want to create a pact weapon or transform a "lesser" magic weapon into your pact blade to use, that's acceptable. In that case, keep your patron sheathed or dual wield.
Speaking to the context of this specific situation, I would either ignore the RAW and allow the patron to be the pact weapon (maybe the extradimensional space is really nice, and the patron likes it there; complaining if it's kept out for too long) or change the patron to have the ability to transform into different weapons.
As a player running a hexblade, me and my dm agreed to make my sword a beholder that dreamed itself into a weapon. According to lore the beholder would be incredibly embarrassed and anxious about its inability to acquire a horde. So, I swore to collect a horde for it in return for power to do so. The way we work pact of the blade into this is allowing me to store loot in the space that a pact weapon would be placed in. This makes a sort of comfortable place for the beholder to inhabit, but it becomes deeply upset and enraged if I remove loot from the horde. I may lose spell slots, get disadvantage on attacks with the sword, or potentially not be able to remove it from the space at all until I resolve the matter. This opens up role play and adds cost to being able to have a sentient weapon as a pact weapon. Hope this helps and or gives you some fun ideas, have a lovely day.
The way I always imagined this was pretty simple: The patron isn't a weapon, they're essentially a magic smith of sorts that make the weapons and provide them to Hexblades.
This makes the synergy between them and the Pact of Blade make perfect sense.
I always thought that the hexblade was something.... it tricks you into accepting, presenting it as a gift for you to weild, but really it is influencing your character, and the ownership is reversed, you are its host, not its owner. If you weild it in combat, it has allowed you to think that because what you're killing is what it wants to kill, and other times it simply won't come out of its sheath or allow you to grab it, instead you can summon some POS "pact weapon" to stab some dirty random goblinoid.
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Hello all (and you John, I now know you are watching),
I have a beef with the Hexblade/Pact of the Blade, RAW. The FIRST sentence of Hexblade reads: You have made your pact with a mysterious entity from the Shadowfell — a force that manifests in sentient magic weapons carved from the stuff of shadow.
Warlock: Pact of the Blade reads, in context to this particular beef with WOTC, "You can transform one magic weapon into your pact weapon by performing a special ritual while you hold the weapon. You perform the ritual over the course of 1 hour, which can be done during a short rest. You can then dismiss the weapon, shunting it into an extradimensional space, and it appears whenever you create your pact weapon thereafter. You can’t affect an artifact or a sentient weapon in this way.
W.T.F. WOTC?
Fellow DM's, how have you handled this? I am skilled in homebrewing things and can easily work around it. I am aware that I can change things to fit my game. But why the DIRECT contradiction?
Maybe some lamen-speaking MOD or employee of WOTC will shine the light of reason on this immersion-busting madness. Please don't give a: Its a balance issue. You wrote this.
Thank you for your time listening to my rant
Evan
Your Hexblade Patron weapon is not your pact weapon. One of the examples they give for a patron is blackrazor, and that is certainly not the weapon in the hands of a level 1 hexblade warlock.
I am a sentient weapon, not your plaything, foolish mortal! You don't get to shunt me away into some dank extradimensional hole whenever you feel like it!
:-)
As a GM I handled it by playing it RAW. Sentient weapons and artifacts are major plot items, important to the whole story of the campaign. Generally, a party will see one of these in the entire game. They are not something that any warlock can just make their pact weapon. That is what "lesser" weapons are for.
Ummm ... sentient weapons are not the subservient pact weapons of a blade pact warlock. They can't be enslaved to the warlock's will, sent to a demiplane at will, discarded and used as if they were mundane magical weapons. In fact, particular weapons may be the PATRON for the warlock, the warlock is harnessed to the will of the weapon not the other way around. The mysterious entity from the Shadowfell that may manifest as a sentient magical weapon doesn't allow the lowly warlock to enslave a sentient extension of the patron. The warlock has a pact with the patron, they don't dominate it. The warlock may obtain knowledge and power in exchange for services of some sort. The patron doesn't give part of itself to the warlock to wield as they will.
Personally, I don't really see a contradiction between a patron manifesting as a sentient weapon made out of shadow and a prohibition on a blade pact warlock being able to subjugate and enslave a sentient weapon to their will.
On the other hand, as a DM in my game world, if the sentient weapon was willing to bond with the warlock because of shared interests and goals and if the weapon could break the bond whenever they wished then I might allow a warlock to make a deal with a sentient weapon to also be a pact weapon - but it isn't a given and it would need the willing consent of the weapon in the circumstances.
Remember that Pact of the Blade and Hexblade are two separate things!
Hexblade is a pact made at 1st level with a 'Patron'. The rules are lose and really completely cosmetic as to how the Hexblades patron works. It states and alludes to "mysterious entity from the Shadowfell — a force that manifests in sentient magic weapons carved from the stuff of shadow". Its not the Artifact weapon itself, or the actual blade or weapon of the 'Entity'... but a facsimile or replica inspired by said Patron. The Patron here is really just a cosmetic effect and is for color. Give it as much Story, or as little, as you want. Its all up to the DM and player to flesh it out as much as they want for Story/Narrative value.
One class ability that a Hexblade pact warlock gives you is Hex Warrior. You will note there are some similarities but specific differences here to Pact of the Blade. Note also that Hex Warrior also works with the effects of Pact of the Blade.
The Pact of the Blade is a class feature granted at 3rd level. Its one of several options. You can be a Hexblade and not choose Pact of the Blade, or a non-Hexblade warlock who chose Pact of the Blade. They are not specifically linked and need to be completely considered separately, though they do have a lot of obvious synergy! Pact of the Blade as a class feature allows any warlock to the powers listed in its description, with the biggest effects being use of Charisma for attack/damage as well as a insta-summon weapon.
So again, two distinct things that are often taken together, but sound similar and can compliment each other. An the actual Patron... is up for the DM (and player) to flesh out however they want. Does that help?
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
John here! Please be aware that I as a player, have little to no knowledge of my DM's (SirEvangelos) ideas/plans for the campaign.
What the real issue for me, the player, is that I want the weapon to be able to change forms (well aware of why WOTC mostly does not want players to do this with magic weapons I.E. Hammer of Thunderbolts or Javelin of Lightning). The hexblade pact weapon lets me conjure any type of weapon with the Improved pact of the blade invocation. I like that I could summon the correct weapon for each situation. For example if I fight skeletons I can summon a bludgeoning weapon, if I fight zombies I can summon a slashing, or if I fight fliers I could summon a bow. The hang-up for me was that when I gained this special weapon the DM provided I didn't realize that it would restrict this very powerful ability to change the form of my weapon. Currently the weapon while attuned allows me to use my proficiency bonus for arcana checks, it also allows on a die roll of 20 I can deal an extra 10 necro damage to non-undead and constructs and gain 10 temp HP. (again no idea what it may do in the future)
I also don't like that I am unable to hide the weapon in the extra-dimensional space, for many role playing reasons as well as functionality. I guess I can live with that but the top part is a real issue for me. Being able to switch the weapon to a different type is HUGE. I cannot emphasize that enough! Also does that mean if I bond this magic weapon that if I get more than 5 feet away or 1 minute out of my reach the weapon does the weapon disappear or not? Per the Warlock class "Your pact weapon disappears if it is more than 5 feet away from you for 1 minute or more. It also disappears if you use this feature again, if you dismiss the weapon (no action required), or if you die"
I know the DM can do as he pleases (Very Well Aware of That) but looking if this issue is really a big deal (obviously for me it is) or maybe ideas for me or the DM or both.
Pact of the Blade was never intended to work with the Hexblade patron weapon. Your patron is supposed to be "... almost godlike in their power", so it doesn't make sense it would give you the power to banish it to an extradimensional space. The patron weapon will not disappear if you get more than 5 feet away from it, because you cannot perform the ritual on it to form that pact bond. If you want to create a pact weapon or transform a "lesser" magic weapon into your pact blade to use, that's acceptable. In that case, keep your patron sheathed or dual wield.
Speaking to the context of this specific situation, I would either ignore the RAW and allow the patron to be the pact weapon (maybe the extradimensional space is really nice, and the patron likes it there; complaining if it's kept out for too long) or change the patron to have the ability to transform into different weapons.
As a player running a hexblade, me and my dm agreed to make my sword a beholder that dreamed itself into a weapon. According to lore the beholder would be incredibly embarrassed and anxious about its inability to acquire a horde. So, I swore to collect a horde for it in return for power to do so. The way we work pact of the blade into this is allowing me to store loot in the space that a pact weapon would be placed in. This makes a sort of comfortable place for the beholder to inhabit, but it becomes deeply upset and enraged if I remove loot from the horde. I may lose spell slots, get disadvantage on attacks with the sword, or potentially not be able to remove it from the space at all until I resolve the matter. This opens up role play and adds cost to being able to have a sentient weapon as a pact weapon. Hope this helps and or gives you some fun ideas, have a lovely day.
The way I always imagined this was pretty simple: The patron isn't a weapon, they're essentially a magic smith of sorts that make the weapons and provide them to Hexblades.
This makes the synergy between them and the Pact of Blade make perfect sense.
I always thought that the hexblade was something.... it tricks you into accepting, presenting it as a gift for you to weild, but really it is influencing your character, and the ownership is reversed, you are its host, not its owner. If you weild it in combat, it has allowed you to think that because what you're killing is what it wants to kill, and other times it simply won't come out of its sheath or allow you to grab it, instead you can summon some POS "pact weapon" to stab some dirty random goblinoid.