Its like looking at an ability and saying. "Oh It doesn't say this so it doesn't work!" Or "It doesn't say i can't fire 5 firebolts at once"
Exactly. It doesn't need to say you can't cast 5 firebolts at once, because the rules for casting spells have built in restrictions (needing an action, etc). Just like how multiattack has the built in restriction of being an action it can take on its turn.
I have no problem with someone saying that RAI is that it can't be readied; I'm inclined to agree. However, RAW does permit it to be readied.
FWIW, in my games I allow multiattack to be readied, but I also allow extra attacks on a readied attack action, because unlike the devs I don't hate readied actions.
More like you don't hate martials. I have few problems with it as a house rule when it applies equally to extra attack, but I still think it favors monsters more since they already usually have the advantage of terrain and numbers.
Exactly. It doesn't need to say you can't cast 5 firebolts at once, because the rules for casting spells have built in restrictions (needing an action, etc). Just like how multiattack has the built in restriction of being an action it can take on its turn.
Except...it doesn't. Nowhere does it state that multiattack can only be used on a creature's turn, just that it can't be used as an opportunity attack (which would actually be an unnecessary restriction if it were generally unusable off turn. My suspicion is that the devs just forgot that readied actions existed).
Exactly. It doesn't need to say you can't cast 5 firebolts at once, because the rules for casting spells have built in restrictions (needing an action, etc). Just like how multiattack has the built in restriction of being an action it can take on its turn.
Except...it doesn't. Nowhere does it state that multiattack can only be used on a creature's turn, just that it can't be used as an opportunity attack (which would actually be an unnecessary restriction if it were generally unusable off turn. My suspicion is that the devs just forgot that readied actions existed).
It specifically DOES say that it can only be used on a creature's turn. The words "on its turn" in the very description of Multiattack. Without those words it would be able to use it at other times too.
If a an action or feature can be used on your turn, essentially you can't use it when it's not your turn.
If an action, as part of its description, says "on your turn you can do X", it isn't usable outside of your turn, but that's not what multiattack says.
I'll ask a simple question: If the writers intent had been that monsters with Multiattack can make multiple attacks on any turn then why did they write "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack ability" instead of "A creature that can make multiple attacks has the Multiattack ability?"
If an action, as part of its description, says "on your turn you can do X", it isn't usable outside of your turn, but that's not what multiattack says.
Are you really claiming that there is a material difference between a feature saying "on your turn" and one saying "on its turn"???
If an action, as part of its description, says "on your turn you can do X", it isn't usable outside of your turn, but that's not what multiattack says.
Are you really claiming that there is a material difference between a feature saying "on your turn" and one saying "on its turn"???
Yes. "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack ability." is not in fact a description of the multiattack ability -- it's a description of the type of creature that has the ability.
5e is allergic to formal language, so it tries to use standard English, and in standard English the subject of that sentence is "a creature".
Yes. "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack ability." is not in fact a description of the multiattack ability -- it's a description of the type of creature that has the ability.
I see what you mean, and the same could be said of Extra Attack "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Extra Attack ability." but where they differ is that the latter has a built-in restriction to only use it on your turn. And no official ruling clarify it in Sage Advice as its inquiring about use it on Opportunity Attacks. So yes RAW Multiattack has no ''on turn'' restriction and could theorically be Ready. But it's obviously not intended by the Dev's own admission;
@thethain Can a creature (or druid) ready the multiattack action?
@JeremyECrawford A creature is meant to use Multiattack only on its turn, not on someone else's.
Yes. "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack ability." is not in fact a description of the multiattack ability -- it's a description of the type of creature that has the ability.
I see what you mean, and the same could be said of Extra Attack "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Extra Attack ability." but where they differ is that the latter has a built-in restriction to only use it on your turn. And no official ruling clarify it in Sage Advice as its inquiring about use it on Opportunity Attacks. So yes RAW Multiattack has no ''on turn'' restriction and could theorically be Ready. But it's obviously not intended by the Dev's own admission;
@thethain Can a creature (or druid) ready the multiattack action?
@JeremyECrawford A creature is meant to use Multiattack only on its turn, not on someone else's.
If you're saying that the rule that says it isn't strong enough because it isn't repeated in each stat block that's different than saying than saying there is no rule. But to be fair, each word you have to repeat in hundreds of stat blocks adds up to pages and pages of additional text. General rules in the MM intro should be sufficient for these types of rules.
The MM entry is a general statement on what monsters that can make multiple attacks on their turn have, which is itself not limiting usage.
A proper way to restrict it in the MM entry would have been to instead say "A creature with the Multiattack ability can only use it on its turn." making Ready off-limit in a more definitive way.
If you're saying that the rule that says it isn't strong enough because it isn't repeated in each stat block that's different than saying than saying there is no rule.
No, it could easily be in the general rule for multiattack. Just add "A creature can’t use Multiattack outside of its turn." to the multiattack paragraph. Which probably makes the sentence about opportunity attacks unnecessary, so it actually makes the text more compact.
Yes. "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack ability." is not in fact a description of the multiattack ability -- it's a description of the type of creature that has the ability.
5e is allergic to formal language, so it tries to use standard English, and in standard English the subject of that sentence is "a creature".
Of course it is, it is the only place where the Multiattack ability is defined. And it describes how you know if a creature has that ability but it does nothing at all to describe what type of creature that has it.
And sure, it is yet another case of bad writing in the rules and yes, it could have been helped by having wording along the lines what you suggested in your later post. But trying to argue that when it says "on its turn" it does in fact mean something other that "on its turn" seems spurious to me. If other rules indicated that it was reasonable to expect to be doing multiple attacks outside of your turn then I could possibly see it being a decent argument. But both the second sentence of Multiattack and the equivalent PC ability shows quite clearly that it shouldn't be expected. Yes there are some spells that allows you to make multiple attack rolls outside of your turn but those are very much the exception, not the norm.
No one is saying it means anything else. Just cause you read the magical 3 three words "On its turn" Does not mean it is limited to its turn, use some context mate.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
No one is saying it means anything else. Just cause you read the magical 3 three words "On its turn" Does not mean it is limited to its turn, use some context mate.
Except that it literally does. See the rest of the thread.
It does not say it is limited to their turn does it? No. It says a creature that can multiple attacks on their turn, HAS the multiattack ability. The Multiattack ability is an action. Therefore it can be readied. Simple as that mate.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
no...its like entirely wrong
Exactly. It doesn't need to say you can't cast 5 firebolts at once, because the rules for casting spells have built in restrictions (needing an action, etc). Just like how multiattack has the built in restriction of being an action it can take on its turn.
More like you don't hate martials. I have few problems with it as a house rule when it applies equally to extra attack, but I still think it favors monsters more since they already usually have the advantage of terrain and numbers.
Except...it doesn't. Nowhere does it state that multiattack can only be used on a creature's turn, just that it can't be used as an opportunity attack (which would actually be an unnecessary restriction if it were generally unusable off turn. My suspicion is that the devs just forgot that readied actions existed).
It specifically DOES say that it can only be used on a creature's turn. The words "on its turn" in the very description of Multiattack. Without those words it would be able to use it at other times too.
Which does not matter. Saying an ability can be used on its turn does not mean it can only be used on its its turn.
In the context of how D&D’s rules are written, yes it does.
If a an action or feature can be used on your turn, essentially you can't use it when it's not your turn.
If an action, as part of its description, says "on your turn you can do X", it isn't usable outside of your turn, but that's not what multiattack says.
I'll ask a simple question: If the writers intent had been that monsters with Multiattack can make multiple attacks on any turn then why did they write "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack ability" instead of "A creature that can make multiple attacks has the Multiattack ability?"
Are you really claiming that there is a material difference between a feature saying "on your turn" and one saying "on its turn"???
Yes. "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack ability." is not in fact a description of the multiattack ability -- it's a description of the type of creature that has the ability.
5e is allergic to formal language, so it tries to use standard English, and in standard English the subject of that sentence is "a creature".
I see what you mean, and the same could be said of Extra Attack "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Extra Attack ability." but where they differ is that the latter has a built-in restriction to only use it on your turn. And no official ruling clarify it in Sage Advice as its inquiring about use it on Opportunity Attacks. So yes RAW Multiattack has no ''on turn'' restriction and could theorically be Ready. But it's obviously not intended by the Dev's own admission;
If you're saying that the rule that says it isn't strong enough because it isn't repeated in each stat block that's different than saying than saying there is no rule. But to be fair, each word you have to repeat in hundreds of stat blocks adds up to pages and pages of additional text. General rules in the MM intro should be sufficient for these types of rules.
The MM entry is a general statement on what monsters that can make multiple attacks on their turn have, which is itself not limiting usage.
A proper way to restrict it in the MM entry would have been to instead say "A creature with the Multiattack ability can only use it on its turn." making Ready off-limit in a more definitive way.
No, it could easily be in the general rule for multiattack. Just add "A creature can’t use Multiattack outside of its turn." to the multiattack paragraph. Which probably makes the sentence about opportunity attacks unnecessary, so it actually makes the text more compact.
Of course it is, it is the only place where the Multiattack ability is defined. And it describes how you know if a creature has that ability but it does nothing at all to describe what type of creature that has it.
And sure, it is yet another case of bad writing in the rules and yes, it could have been helped by having wording along the lines what you suggested in your later post. But trying to argue that when it says "on its turn" it does in fact mean something other that "on its turn" seems spurious to me. If other rules indicated that it was reasonable to expect to be doing multiple attacks outside of your turn then I could possibly see it being a decent argument. But both the second sentence of Multiattack and the equivalent PC ability shows quite clearly that it shouldn't be expected. Yes there are some spells that allows you to make multiple attack rolls outside of your turn but those are very much the exception, not the norm.
Quick question, Does it say it can only be used on its turn? No
It is purely giving a description of why it has that ability. It does not say. "A creature that has the multiattack ability can use it on its turn"
It says "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack ability"
It does not say it is required for the action to be on someones turn. It simply states why certain creatures have the ability.
"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
My Homebrew Please click it, they have my family.
No one is saying it means anything else. Just cause you read the magical 3 three words "On its turn" Does not mean it is limited to its turn, use some context mate.
"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
My Homebrew Please click it, they have my family.
Except that it literally does. See the rest of the thread.
It does not say it is limited to their turn does it? No. It says a creature that can multiple attacks on their turn, HAS the multiattack ability. The Multiattack ability is an action. Therefore it can be readied. Simple as that mate.
"Anyone can smith at the cosmic anvil, yet only I can forge a weapon as good as thee."
My Homebrew Please click it, they have my family.