Are you implying that there is any evidence at all that any class of monsters can or cannot use multiattack outside of their turn? Or are you just assuming based on the class of monsters that can use it on their turn?
Neither one. I'm saying that the text you're pointing to is descriptive, not prescriptive.
In the MM, page 10, the Actions section starts with:
When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures
Multiattack is then listed as one of the more common actions found in stat blocks
Ready is the action the creature is taking. This part: "or use one of the actions available to all creatures" is talking about the normal actions everyone can do, Ready is one of them.
The monster is taking the Ready action.
To be clear, the monster isn't "doing" a Multiattack Action off turn. That's not how the Ready action even works.
On your turn you take the Ready Action.
You specify a trigger.
You specify an action you'd like to perform later.
Your action is now over.
At some point your turn ends.
The event you declared for your Ready action gets triggered.
You use your reaction to perform the course of action you specified.
At no point in this process are you ever "taking the multiattack action". Not on your turn. Not outside your turn.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
There are multiple examples of creatures whose Multiattack allows them to replace an attack with a Spellcasting action
However, the Ready action has separate rules for spells. Do those rules apply, in your mind, when you "Ready the Multiattack action?" Because you're not readying a spell, you're readying Multiattack
I would consider that legitimately unclear.
Your argument has been that "Multiattack" is an action that can be Readied just like any other, and that the rules text "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack action" defines creatures, not Multiattack. So what's unclear?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Your argument has been that "Multiattack" is an action that can be Readied just like any other, and that the rules text "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack action" defines creatures, not Multiattack. So what's unclear?
Whether readying multiattack (when multiattack includes a spell) is readying a spell. You are certainly using a readied action to cast a spell, it's just that the readied action is not the "[Tooltip Not Found]" action, and the ready action does not say "when you ready the [Tooltip Not Found] action", it says "when you ready a spell".
There are multiple examples of creatures whose Multiattack allows them to replace an attack with a Spellcasting action
However, the Ready action has separate rules for spells. Do those rules apply, in your mind, when you "Ready the Multiattack action?" Because you're not readying a spell, you're readying Multiattack
I would consider that legitimately unclear.
Your argument has been that "Multiattack" is an action that can be Readied just like any other, and that the rules text "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack action" defines creatures, not Multiattack. So what's unclear?
Nothing is unclear. Is there a specific part you're having difficulty with? Maybe an example creature helps?
Eg. Glabrezu:
The glabrezu makes four attacks: two with its pincers and two with its fists. Alternatively, it makes two attacks with its pincers and casts one spell.
The Glabrezu can Ready an action. He can choose to ready his Multiattack action. When he does he chooses to either ready 2 pincers and 2 claws. ||or|| He prepares to use two pincers and to cast one spell.
When he readies it, he starts the spell cast, and concentrates on it as normal. So when his trigger event occurs, he uses his reaction to perform the Readied course of action, also as normal. Releasing the spell and making his 2 pincer attacks.
The only restriction here is the spell must normally have a 1 action casting time. Turns out this wont be a problem for the Glabz, since that's all he has.
Ready rules, Re:spells:
When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell’s magic requires concentration (explained in chapter 10). If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
There are multiple examples of creatures whose Multiattack allows them to replace an attack with a Spellcasting action
However, the Ready action has separate rules for spells. Do those rules apply, in your mind, when you "Ready the Multiattack action?" Because you're not readying a spell, you're readying Multiattack
I would consider that legitimately unclear.
Your argument has been that "Multiattack" is an action that can be Readied just like any other, and that the rules text "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack action" defines creatures, not Multiattack. So what's unclear?
To be honest, to me, what is unclear is which of those is actually the argument. If you think of multiattack as an action, it says right on the tin for use "on its turn" and if you think of it as a classification, then again there is no classification of creatures that can ready multiple attacks. Goes straight back to the Sposta post I quoted.
I don't really feel like moving back and forth between those arguments creates the seamless defense that the other poster seems to. "It doesn't say you can only use it on its turn" means that it isn't RAW to use it off your turn. That is science.
Your argument has been that "Multiattack" is an action that can be Readied just like any other, and that the rules text "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack action" defines creatures, not Multiattack. So what's unclear?
Whether readying multiattack (when multiattack includes a spell) is readying a spell. You are certainly using a readied action to cast a spell, it's just that the readied action is not the "cast a spell" action, and the ready action does not say "when you ready the cast a spell action", it says "when you ready a spell".
If "on its turn" doesn't actually mean "on its turn", I'm not sure how "ready a spell" can mean "ready a Multiattack that has the option of including a spell"
(I haven't even gotten to the fact that some monsters with the Spellcasting option as part of their Multiattack also have ranged spell attacks as part of it too...)
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Your argument has been that "Multiattack" is an action that can be Readied just like any other, and that the rules text "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack action" defines creatures, not Multiattack. So what's unclear?
Whether readying multiattack (when multiattack includes a spell) is readying a spell. You are certainly using a readied action to cast a spell, it's just that the readied action is not the "cast a spell" action, and the ready action does not say "when you ready the cast a spell action", it says "when you ready a spell".
You don't need to decide whether or not you're casting a spell until you take the reaction though. If you can ready the multiattack action, that's what you're readying. It's a container whose contents are indeterminate until the reaction is taken, which is one reason to disallow it for readying.
Since you cast a spell as normal but hold its energy when you ready a spell, you absolutely need to choose which spell at the moment of taking the Ready action, not the reaction.
So if a Glabrezu Ready Multiattack, it will need to cast the spell and hold its energy, wether it uses it as a reaction on it's turn or another one. The debate here is not if Multiattack can be readied, but if once readied, it can be used as a reaction on your turn or another as well.
Since you cast a spell as normal but hold its energy when you ready a spell, you absolutely need to choose which spell at the moment of taking the Ready action, not the reaction.
If you ready multiattack, you are not readying a spell, so the rules on readying spells aren't relevant. The specific text of multiattack lets you replace an attack with a spell at the time you take the multiattack action. Whether or not you readied multiattack doesn't matter.
So if a Glabrezu Ready Multiattack, it will need to cast the spell and hold its energy, wether it uses it as a reaction on it's turn or another one. The debate here is not if Multiattack can be readied, but if once readied, it can be used as a reaction on your turn or another as well.
Unambiguously false. Replacing an attack with a spell is something you can do when you take the multiattack action, which you have not done yet if you ready it.
If that doesn't sit right with you, then we can always go back to the text that everyone agrees tells us that multiattack is meant to be used only on a creature's turn.
Since you cast a spell as normal but hold its energy when you ready a spell, you absolutely need to choose which spell at the moment of taking the Ready action, not the reaction.
But you're not readying a spell. You're readying Multiattack
The debate here is not if Multiattack can be readied
I'm late to the thread, but the debate here absolutely seems to be whether Multiattack is something you can Ready... and all the issues that arise if you decide that it is
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If a Glabrezu ready Multiattack, it either readies 4 attacks or 2 attacks and a spell as part of it's Ready action, and when you ready a spell, it need to cast it and hold its energy. I can see an ambiguity since it contain options.
I'm late to the thread, but the debate here absolutely seems to be whether Multiattack is something you can Ready... and all the issues that arise if you decide that it is
It's clear to me that Multiattack is an action you can Ready and use on your turn just like Extra Attack.
Yeah, not sure why this is 7 pages, but to me the rules are very clear. the only specific restriction placed on Multiattack is that it doesn't work with opportunity attacks, which require a single attack, not attack action. Further, Multiattack is consistently listed in the "actions" space of a statblock. So naturally, it flows that multiattack can be used as the action that is readied by the creature.
Regarding spells that are part of a multiattack, I would argue again that the action that is readied is a multiattack, not a spell, so the normal procedures and restrictions on readying spells would be moot, because what is being readied is not "two attacks and a spell" (in the case of the Glabrezu used in prior examples), but the overarching "multiattack" action, which may or may not include spells, and certainly would not require you to name the spell before the rest of the multiattack triggers (which is also key to readying a spell)
I don't really feel like moving back and forth between those arguments creates the seamless defense that the other poster seems to. "It doesn't say you can only use it on its turn" means that it isn't RAW to use it off your turn. That is science.
That is the well known logical fallacy of denying the antecedent. "It doesn't say you can only use it on your turn" means "You can use it outside of your turn if another rule would permit you to do so and no rule forbids you from doing so".
I'm late to the thread, but the debate here absolutely seems to be whether Multiattack is something you can Ready... and all the issues that arise if you decide that it is
It's clear to me that Multiattack is an action you can Ready and use on your turn just like Extra Attack.
Extra Attack is not an action and cannot be readied.
If a Glabrezu ready Multiattack, it either readies 4 attacks or 2 attacks and a spell as part of it's Ready action, and when you ready a spell, it need to cast it and hold its energy. I can see an ambiguity since it contain options.
Absolutely false. There is zero textual support for this position. Four attacks isn't an action. Two attacks and a spell isn't an action. The action is Multiattack, and either you follow the rules for Multiattack, which tell what you can do when you actually take it, or you don't. Your position here isn't even consistent with itself.
Your argument has been that "Multiattack" is an action that can be Readied just like any other, and that the rules text "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack action" defines creatures, not Multiattack. So what's unclear?
Whether readying multiattack (when multiattack includes a spell) is readying a spell. You are certainly using a readied action to cast a spell, it's just that the readied action is not the "cast a spell" action, and the ready action does not say "when you ready the cast a spell action", it says "when you ready a spell".
You don't need to decide whether or not you're casting a spell until you take the reaction though. If you can ready the multiattack action, that's what you're readying. It's a container whose contents are indeterminate until the reaction is taken, which is one reason to disallow it for readying.
There is no reason to believe this is true. Not sure where you came up with it.
You're basically arguing that someone could just ready an "Attack Action" or ready a "Cast a Spell Action" without having to specify their actual course of action.
But the ready rules ask you to specify it. You need to explain precisely what you're planning to do and precisely what will trigger you doing it.
You can't just ready "a spell" when "whenever I feel like it" happens.
You have to specify your course of action. And you must specify the trigger condition.
There is no incompatibility there with multiattack. You just specify what you're going to do and the trigger for it happening. Like my prior example of a Glabrazu choosing to ready 2 pincers and his choice of on his spells.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
As there seems to be some confusion over what the Ready action requires you to do, here's the actual rules text:
First, you decide what perceivable circumstance will trigger your reaction. Then, you choose the action you will take in response to that trigger, or you choose to move up to your speed in response to it.
If you say your Readied action is to move, you don't have to specify in advance where you're moving to, or how far you will move. You simply say, "If X happens, I will move" and then decide where and how far if X actually happens
If you view Multiattack as an action that can be Readied, it would operate exactly the same way. You would say, "If X happens, I will Multiattack", then decide what the composition of your Multiattack will be if X actually happens
There is a very specific exception to this for Readying a spell, of course, but you're not Readying a spell, you're Readying a Multiattack -- which might include a spell, but might not. Nothing forces you to make that choice in advance
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You don't need to decide whether or not you're casting a spell until you take the reaction though. If you can ready the multiattack action, that's what you're readying. It's a container whose contents are indeterminate until the reaction is taken, which is one reason to disallow it for readying.
You can ready attack and decide which attack at the point it's triggered. The only reason you can't ready [Tooltip Not Found] and decide when triggered is because ready specifically calls out the situation and thus overrides general rules.
Was going to point out that ready action also states
When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration. If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.
So you need to pick the spell you use if there is a cast spell option for it and that spell slot it wasted no mater what. Specific over general rules right there.
I'm late to the thread, but the debate here absolutely seems to be whether Multiattack is something you can Ready... and all the issues that arise if you decide that it is
It's clear to me that Multiattack is an action you can Ready and use on your turn just like Extra Attack.
Extra Attack is not an action and cannot be readied.
I didn't say Extra Attack was readied, i said it could be used on your turn when you use a Readied action (Attack)
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Ready is the action the creature is taking. This part: "or use one of the actions available to all creatures" is talking about the normal actions everyone can do, Ready is one of them.
The monster is taking the Ready action.
To be clear, the monster isn't "doing" a Multiattack Action off turn. That's not how the Ready action even works.
At no point in this process are you ever "taking the multiattack action". Not on your turn. Not outside your turn.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Your argument has been that "Multiattack" is an action that can be Readied just like any other, and that the rules text "A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack action" defines creatures, not Multiattack. So what's unclear?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Whether readying multiattack (when multiattack includes a spell) is readying a spell. You are certainly using a readied action to cast a spell, it's just that the readied action is not the "[Tooltip Not Found]" action, and the ready action does not say "when you ready the [Tooltip Not Found] action", it says "when you ready a spell".
Nothing is unclear. Is there a specific part you're having difficulty with? Maybe an example creature helps?
Eg. Glabrezu:
The Glabrezu can Ready an action. He can choose to ready his Multiattack action. When he does he chooses to either ready 2 pincers and 2 claws. ||or|| He prepares to use two pincers and to cast one spell.
When he readies it, he starts the spell cast, and concentrates on it as normal. So when his trigger event occurs, he uses his reaction to perform the Readied course of action, also as normal. Releasing the spell and making his 2 pincer attacks.
The only restriction here is the spell must normally have a 1 action casting time. Turns out this wont be a problem for the Glabz, since that's all he has.
Ready rules, Re:spells:
When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell’s magic requires concentration (explained in chapter 10). If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
To be honest, to me, what is unclear is which of those is actually the argument. If you think of multiattack as an action, it says right on the tin for use "on its turn" and if you think of it as a classification, then again there is no classification of creatures that can ready multiple attacks. Goes straight back to the Sposta post I quoted.
I don't really feel like moving back and forth between those arguments creates the seamless defense that the other poster seems to. "It doesn't say you can only use it on its turn" means that it isn't RAW to use it off your turn. That is science.
If "on its turn" doesn't actually mean "on its turn", I'm not sure how "ready a spell" can mean "ready a Multiattack that has the option of including a spell"
(I haven't even gotten to the fact that some monsters with the Spellcasting option as part of their Multiattack also have ranged spell attacks as part of it too...)
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You don't need to decide whether or not you're casting a spell until you take the reaction though. If you can ready the multiattack action, that's what you're readying. It's a container whose contents are indeterminate until the reaction is taken, which is one reason to disallow it for readying.
Since you cast a spell as normal but hold its energy when you ready a spell, you absolutely need to choose which spell at the moment of taking the Ready action, not the reaction.
So if a Glabrezu Ready Multiattack, it will need to cast the spell and hold its energy, wether it uses it as a reaction on it's turn or another one. The debate here is not if Multiattack can be readied, but if once readied, it can be used as a reaction on your turn or another as well.
If you ready multiattack, you are not readying a spell, so the rules on readying spells aren't relevant. The specific text of multiattack lets you replace an attack with a spell at the time you take the multiattack action. Whether or not you readied multiattack doesn't matter.
Unambiguously false. Replacing an attack with a spell is something you can do when you take the multiattack action, which you have not done yet if you ready it.
If that doesn't sit right with you, then we can always go back to the text that everyone agrees tells us that multiattack is meant to be used only on a creature's turn.
But you're not readying a spell. You're readying Multiattack
I'm late to the thread, but the debate here absolutely seems to be whether Multiattack is something you can Ready... and all the issues that arise if you decide that it is
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If a Glabrezu ready Multiattack, it either readies 4 attacks or 2 attacks and a spell as part of it's Ready action, and when you ready a spell, it need to cast it and hold its energy. I can see an ambiguity since it contain options.
It's clear to me that Multiattack is an action you can Ready and use on your turn just like Extra Attack.
Yeah, not sure why this is 7 pages, but to me the rules are very clear. the only specific restriction placed on Multiattack is that it doesn't work with opportunity attacks, which require a single attack, not attack action. Further, Multiattack is consistently listed in the "actions" space of a statblock. So naturally, it flows that multiattack can be used as the action that is readied by the creature.
Regarding spells that are part of a multiattack, I would argue again that the action that is readied is a multiattack, not a spell, so the normal procedures and restrictions on readying spells would be moot, because what is being readied is not "two attacks and a spell" (in the case of the Glabrezu used in prior examples), but the overarching "multiattack" action, which may or may not include spells, and certainly would not require you to name the spell before the rest of the multiattack triggers (which is also key to readying a spell)
That is the well known logical fallacy of denying the antecedent. "It doesn't say you can only use it on your turn" means "You can use it outside of your turn if another rule would permit you to do so and no rule forbids you from doing so".
Extra Attack is not an action and cannot be readied.
Absolutely false. There is zero textual support for this position. Four attacks isn't an action. Two attacks and a spell isn't an action. The action is Multiattack, and either you follow the rules for Multiattack, which tell what you can do when you actually take it, or you don't. Your position here isn't even consistent with itself.
There is no reason to believe this is true. Not sure where you came up with it.
You're basically arguing that someone could just ready an "Attack Action" or ready a "Cast a Spell Action" without having to specify their actual course of action.
But the ready rules ask you to specify it. You need to explain precisely what you're planning to do and precisely what will trigger you doing it.
You can't just ready "a spell" when "whenever I feel like it" happens.
You have to specify your course of action. And you must specify the trigger condition.
There is no incompatibility there with multiattack. You just specify what you're going to do and the trigger for it happening. Like my prior example of a Glabrazu choosing to ready 2 pincers and his choice of on his spells.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
As there seems to be some confusion over what the Ready action requires you to do, here's the actual rules text:
If you say your Readied action is to move, you don't have to specify in advance where you're moving to, or how far you will move. You simply say, "If X happens, I will move" and then decide where and how far if X actually happens
If you view Multiattack as an action that can be Readied, it would operate exactly the same way. You would say, "If X happens, I will Multiattack", then decide what the composition of your Multiattack will be if X actually happens
There is a very specific exception to this for Readying a spell, of course, but you're not Readying a spell, you're Readying a Multiattack -- which might include a spell, but might not. Nothing forces you to make that choice in advance
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You can ready attack and decide which attack at the point it's triggered. The only reason you can't ready [Tooltip Not Found] and decide when triggered is because ready specifically calls out the situation and thus overrides general rules.
Was going to point out that ready action also states
When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration. If your concentration is broken, the spell dissipates without taking effect. For example, if you are concentrating on the web spell and ready magic missile, your web spell ends, and if you take damage before you release magic missile with your reaction, your concentration might be broken.
So you need to pick the spell you use if there is a cast spell option for it and that spell slot it wasted no mater what. Specific over general rules right there.
I didn't say Extra Attack was readied, i said it could be used on your turn when you use a Readied action (Attack)