I'm pretty new to D&D so I'm a little unsure of mechanic interactions. I've been playing a NPC so i know the DM likes to try and kill everyone a decent amount, but he's fair with arguing the wording of things as long as it makes sense. I've made my first character now and I want to pop this combo at least once before he can prepare for it, just not sure if it'll work mechanically as the NPC I've been playing doesn't have mechanics to compare to.
I ritual cast Nightowl and order him to fly around above me following me as we adventure. We hit an encounter, I get rushed and hit by a melee attack, I use my reaction to cast veil making me blind, deaf and having full cover until the end of my next turn. My turn rolls up and I use my bonus action to see and hear with my nightowl.
1.Can i cast spells using the sight of my nightowl?
2.Do i get advantage from the unseen attacker rule?
3.If I move before my turn ends will it provoke opportunity attacks?
I think I found the two spells the OP is talking about and they are from a third party source, not WotC.
Nightowl: [REDACTED]
Veil:[REDACTED]
As for their questions, here is how I would interpret how these mechanics interact.
1) No. The spell is originating from you, not the Nightowl, and must have a clear path to the target. Many spells also require that you see the target but all spells require a clear path. Since Veil is giving you Total Cover from everything else there is no clear path to any target other than yourself. For reference here is the clear path rule: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#AClearPathtotheTarget
2) This is up to the DM but assuming the Total Cover problem didn't exist then technically yes. However I have seen DMs rule no when a character is not seen but their location is obvious.
3) You are definitely safe from Opportunity Attacks. As before you are technically unseen and so shouldn't provoke an Opportunity Attack as they require seeing the target. However even if the DM rules that you are still considered seen you are still an invalid target thanks to the Total Cover from Veil.
Edit: I just noticed that the version of Nightowl and Veil I found are on the Druid/Ranger and Wizard spell lists respectively. So I am a little confused how the OP has access to both
Sorry i didn't specify origins, like I said a little new. We're using Aurora builder with additional content added so anything within is fair game. Helps simplify with people playing online with us without TOO many obscure references to weave around. I'm doing this all with a Warlock and Pact of Tome with Book of Secrets.
Your answers and deductions were perfect Fangeye, thank you. Sorry I wasn't more clear Farling.
Now the next question is, how can I abuse this if I can't cast a fireball or eldritch blast outside of my total cover? Self AOE? Something like Thunderclap? Maybe something to do with wind as it says a 10 miles wind will disperse it. Just run away and self buff? I'm limited to Lvl 8 warlock/lvl 1 Sorc, but don't necessarily need specifics, just mechanically sound ideas.
I feel like the best way to combo with Veil is also the simplest. On your turn move away from any enemies and use the Ready action to ready a spell for when you can see again.
There is the cantrip Sacred Flame that might work. JC has talked about using it against a target that is visible but has total cover. However the text of the spell says the target can't benefit from cover for the save, it doesn't say that cover can't prevent a creature from being targeted in the first place.
There are also possible shenanigans with Find Familiar and Quickened Spell since you can cast touch spells from your familiar. The problem with this is that it is dependant on the initiative order. Your familiar has its own initiative and you may not be able to move it into melee for this before your turn comes.
So there are possible shenanigans but really the Ready action is your best bet.
In all the games we've played I don't think I've seen anyone make use of the Ready action. Just to clarify the order of operations for this
1.I get hit, use reaction for veil. It rotates to my turn, regaining my reaction.
2.Move away, use my action to ready, for example, 'I Eldritch blast the enemy that hit me when i can see again' and use my bonus to...hide? (I think i can argue that, the enemy can't technically see me and it's cool as hell for people to visualize I mist away and when the mist dissipates I have the staff and spell pointed and blasting, catching the enemy off guard)
3.My turn ends, so I can see again, so i use my reaction to blast'm.
The weakness here being I don't get another reaction until my next turn and it breaks concentration on any spell I have concentrated If i read up on the ready action correctly?
Just to ask about options here, I should be able to use a spell that targets myself even if I'm blind and deaf right? Also am I able to cast a spell and ready a spell?
Such as I cast 3rd party Smoulder as my bonus and ready a fireball as my action?
Or a combo such as 3rd party Grim Scythe and Thunderclap?
Edit: Seen a mod removed some similar links and I'm a good noob.
In all the games we've played I don't think I've seen anyone make use of the Ready action. Just to clarify the order of operations for this
1.I get hit, use reaction for veil. It rotates to my turn, regaining my reaction.
Assuming Veil is a reaction spell that triggers on being hit, then yes.
2.Move away, use my action to ready, for example, 'I Eldritch blast the enemy that hit me when i can see again' and use my bonus to...hide? (I think i can argue that, the enemy can't technically see me and it's cool as hell for people to visualize I mist away and when the mist dissipates I have the staff and spell pointed and blasting, catching the enemy off guard)
The legality of the bonus action here relies on too many other rules your character would need access to for me to say much, but you can certainly Ready that action, provided you can't see when you Ready it.
3.My turn ends, so I can see again, so i use my reaction to blast'm.
Sure.
The weakness here being I don't get another reaction until my next turn and it breaks concentration on any spell I have concentrated If i read up on the ready action correctly?
Yes.
Just to ask about options here, I should be able to use a spell that targets myself even if I'm blind and deaf right?
Yes, unless the spell requires you to see or hear the target. You can't see yourself while blind and you can't hear yourself while deaf, but spells don't require either unless they say they do.
Also am I able to cast a spell and ready a spell?
Yes, if you have the action economy for it. As an example, with sorcerous metamagic, you could bonus action cast Fire Bolt and then action ready a second Fire Bolt.
2.Move away, use my action to ready, for example, 'I Eldritch blast the enemy that hit me when i can see again' and use my bonus to...hide? (I think i can argue that, the enemy can't technically see me and it's cool as hell for people to visualize I mist away and when the mist dissipates I have the staff and spell pointed and blasting, catching the enemy off guard)
The legality of the bonus action here relies on too many other rules your character would need access to for me to say much, but you can certainly Ready that action, provided you can't see when you Ready it.
I figured the hide action was a bit shaky, part of the reason I asked about what other options I have.
Ahh shucks the fireball thing makes sense, I just wasn't entirely sure if Ready an action fell into the same rules for action economy. I thought maybe it would allow it to offset the drawbacks of using it. So just to finalize.
1. 1 Action Cantrip+1 Bonus action spell (lvl'd or cantrip)=ok
I'm pretty new to D&D so I'm a little unsure of mechanic interactions. I've been playing a NPC so i know the DM likes to try and kill everyone a decent amount, but he's fair with arguing the wording of things as long as it makes sense. I've made my first character now and I want to pop this combo at least once before he can prepare for it, just not sure if it'll work mechanically as the NPC I've been playing doesn't have mechanics to compare to.
I ritual cast Nightowl and order him to fly around above me following me as we adventure. We hit an encounter, I get rushed and hit by a melee attack, I use my reaction to cast veil making me blind, deaf and having full cover until the end of my next turn. My turn rolls up and I use my bonus action to see and hear with my nightowl.
1.Can i cast spells using the sight of my nightowl?
2.Do i get advantage from the unseen attacker rule?
3.If I move before my turn ends will it provoke opportunity attacks?
Where are you getting Veil from? It isn't a spell.
Do you mean that you are casting Find Familiar to summon an Owl?
1. If the spell requires you to see something, then probably yes.
2. Against who?
3. Opportunity Attacks can only be made by somebody against a creature that they can see.
I think I found the two spells the OP is talking about and they are from a third party source, not WotC.
Nightowl: [REDACTED]
Veil: [REDACTED]
As for their questions, here is how I would interpret how these mechanics interact.
1) No. The spell is originating from you, not the Nightowl, and must have a clear path to the target. Many spells also require that you see the target but all spells require a clear path. Since Veil is giving you Total Cover from everything else there is no clear path to any target other than yourself. For reference here is the clear path rule: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/spellcasting#AClearPathtotheTarget
2) This is up to the DM but assuming the Total Cover problem didn't exist then technically yes. However I have seen DMs rule no when a character is not seen but their location is obvious.
3) You are definitely safe from Opportunity Attacks. As before you are technically unseen and so shouldn't provoke an Opportunity Attack as they require seeing the target. However even if the DM rules that you are still considered seen you are still an invalid target thanks to the Total Cover from Veil.
Edit: I just noticed that the version of Nightowl and Veil I found are on the Druid/Ranger and Wizard spell lists respectively. So I am a little confused how the OP has access to both
Sorry i didn't specify origins, like I said a little new. We're using Aurora builder with additional content added so anything within is fair game. Helps simplify with people playing online with us without TOO many obscure references to weave around. I'm doing this all with a Warlock and Pact of Tome with Book of Secrets.
Your answers and deductions were perfect Fangeye, thank you. Sorry I wasn't more clear Farling.
Now the next question is, how can I abuse this if I can't cast a fireball or eldritch blast outside of my total cover? Self AOE? Something like Thunderclap? Maybe something to do with wind as it says a 10 miles wind will disperse it. Just run away and self buff? I'm limited to Lvl 8 warlock/lvl 1 Sorc, but don't necessarily need specifics, just mechanically sound ideas.
I feel like the best way to combo with Veil is also the simplest. On your turn move away from any enemies and use the Ready action to ready a spell for when you can see again.
There is the cantrip Sacred Flame that might work. JC has talked about using it against a target that is visible but has total cover. However the text of the spell says the target can't benefit from cover for the save, it doesn't say that cover can't prevent a creature from being targeted in the first place.
There are also possible shenanigans with Find Familiar and Quickened Spell since you can cast touch spells from your familiar. The problem with this is that it is dependant on the initiative order. Your familiar has its own initiative and you may not be able to move it into melee for this before your turn comes.
So there are possible shenanigans but really the Ready action is your best bet.
In all the games we've played I don't think I've seen anyone make use of the Ready action. Just to clarify the order of operations for this
1.I get hit, use reaction for veil. It rotates to my turn, regaining my reaction.
2.Move away, use my action to ready, for example, 'I Eldritch blast the enemy that hit me when i can see again' and use my bonus to...hide? (I think i can argue that, the enemy can't technically see me and it's cool as hell for people to visualize I mist away and when the mist dissipates I have the staff and spell pointed and blasting, catching the enemy off guard)
3.My turn ends, so I can see again, so i use my reaction to blast'm.
The weakness here being I don't get another reaction until my next turn and it breaks concentration on any spell I have concentrated If i read up on the ready action correctly?
Just to ask about options here, I should be able to use a spell that targets myself even if I'm blind and deaf right? Also am I able to cast a spell and ready a spell?
Such as I cast 3rd party Smoulder as my bonus and ready a fireball as my action?
Or a combo such as 3rd party Grim Scythe and Thunderclap?
Edit: Seen a mod removed some similar links and I'm a good noob.
Assuming Veil is a reaction spell that triggers on being hit, then yes.
The legality of the bonus action here relies on too many other rules your character would need access to for me to say much, but you can certainly Ready that action, provided you can't see when you Ready it.
Sure.
Yes.
Yes, unless the spell requires you to see or hear the target. You can't see yourself while blind and you can't hear yourself while deaf, but spells don't require either unless they say they do.
Yes, if you have the action economy for it. As an example, with sorcerous metamagic, you could bonus action cast Fire Bolt and then action ready a second Fire Bolt.
No, because Fireball isn't a cantrip.
I figured the hide action was a bit shaky, part of the reason I asked about what other options I have.
Ahh shucks the fireball thing makes sense, I just wasn't entirely sure if Ready an action fell into the same rules for action economy. I thought maybe it would allow it to offset the drawbacks of using it. So just to finalize.
1. 1 Action Cantrip+1 Bonus action spell (lvl'd or cantrip)=ok
2. 1 Action lvl'd spell+1 Bonus action spell (any)=no
3. 1 Ready action Cantrip+1 Bonus action spell (lvl'd or cantrip, but not concentration )=ok
4.1 Ready action lvl'd spell+1 Bonus action spell (any)=no
5.1 Ready action spell (any)+non-spell bonus action=ok
I think I have this figured out now, mostly. Thanks for everyone's help.