Can a lantern of revealing detect ethereal creatures? I believe it does not because the lantern of revealing description only says "invisible creatures and objects". Invisible and ethereal are not the same so it would have to be specific for etherealness detection, like the See Invisibility spell does. Correct?
Ok thanks. I'm running a campaing where a night hag is haunting the players' dreams and they have a lantern of revealing. Just wanted to be 100% sure they can't see it with the lantern.
Creatures on the Ethereal Plane are invisible and silent to those on the Material Plane. The item says nothing about showing invisible creatures on different planes so in my game I would say it does if the creature is on the Border Ethereal and is trying to interact with the Material Plane. Most items that do some sort of detection but does not work cross planes say so (i.e locate spells and Orb of Time.
See invisibility lets you see invisible creatures and objects. The lantern of revealing reveals invisible creatures and objects. See invisibility lets you see into the ethereal plane, but the lantern of revealing does not.
Yes that is true but there are still other conflicts, so all of this truly rests in the hands of the DM.
So how does one resolve the statement that creature's on the border Ethereal are invisible to creates on material? Is the lantern a magic effect that does not overlap into the Ethereal? If so then why does Magic Circle stop creatures on the Ethereal?
There are too many situational issues and a DM can choose to interpret them for their table as the arbiter but then all rules need to match to that new ruling. If they wanted it to be super clear every item would need so much text to clarify its use in every instance which is crazy.
While lit, this hooded lantern burns for 6 hours on 1 pint of oil, shedding bright light in a 30-foot radius and dim light for an additional 30 feet.
Invisible creatures and objects are visible as long as they are in the lantern's bright light.
You can use an action to lower the hood, reducing the light to dim light in a 5-foot radius.
If you want a specific reason why the lantern of revealing does not illuminate creatures in the Ethereal plane, it's is because they are out of the range of the lantern's 30 foot area of bright light. Creatures on other planes are infinitely far away using conventional distance terminology. This interpretation is backed up as RAI in this tweet discussing spell effects across planes.
Yes, I am aware of that situation but that contradicts the Night Hag's ability to touch a creature while in the Ethereal. It is a silly point but there are contradicts that just don't make sense based on the wording, hence why the creators said the DM's ruling is final.
I appreciate your back and forth regarding this but don't feel like you have to reply to try and win anything. 🤓
" Nightmare Haunting (1/Day): While on the Ethereal Plane, the hag magically touches a sleeping Humanoid on The Material Plane. A Protection from Evil and Good spell cast on the target prevents this contact, as does a Magic Circle. As long as the contact persists, the target has dreadful visions. If these visions last for at least 1 hour, the target gains no benefit from its rest, and its hit point maximum is reduced by 5 (1d10). If this effect reduces the target's hit point maximum to 0, the target dies, and if the target was evil, its soul is trapped in the hag's Soul Bag. The reduction to the target's hit point maximum lasts until removed by the Greater Restoration spell or similar magic"
I'm running this same exact scenario and was looking to see what the hive mind thought about it. My thoughts are that the Lantern would indeed reveal the Hag as though casting a See Invisibility spell. In our case, the party still has to find a way to interact with the Hag (Force damage spells, etc.). I think it would be a cool moment when the Hag is either revealed or the party member on watch sees it descend upon the victim while they sleep- CREEPY!
One thing to note is that while creatures in the Ethereal plane are invisible, they are not invisible as in the condition . They are in another place entirely. This is backed up from the description of the etherealness which does not even use the word "invisible". the see invisibility specifically allows the caster to percieve the ethereal plane, but that is due to the specific rule of that spell, not because the creature in the plane is invisible. the wording even says it as an additive thing, as if ethereal sight and seeing invisible creatures are separate.
As to the Night Hag...their magic is innate, and can break the general rules of the Ethereal plane under the "specific beats general" rule. It would be a cool visual though, and I might play it as you get a faint glimpse rather than a full view of the hag at work.
It depends on the hag. If it's a night hag as iconrising says, then it benefits from etherealness, which we have already established will not be revealed. If it is a green hag, then its invisible passage feature turns the hag invisible and that would indeed be revealed by the lantern of revealing. A sea hag's illusory appearance would not be exposed with the lantern.
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"Not all those who wander are lost"
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Can a lantern of revealing detect ethereal creatures? I believe it does not because the lantern of revealing description only says "invisible creatures and objects". Invisible and ethereal are not the same so it would have to be specific for etherealness detection, like the See Invisibility spell does. Correct?
Yes, it is correct that things only do what they say they do.
Ok thanks. I'm running a campaing where a night hag is haunting the players' dreams and they have a lantern of revealing. Just wanted to be 100% sure they can't see it with the lantern.
Creatures on the Ethereal Plane are invisible and silent to those on the Material Plane. The item says nothing about showing invisible creatures on different planes so in my game I would say it does if the creature is on the Border Ethereal and is trying to interact with the Material Plane. Most items that do some sort of detection but does not work cross planes say so (i.e locate spells and Orb of Time.
See invisibility lets you see invisible creatures and objects. The lantern of revealing reveals invisible creatures and objects. See invisibility lets you see into the ethereal plane, but the lantern of revealing does not.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Yes that is true but there are still other conflicts, so all of this truly rests in the hands of the DM.
So how does one resolve the statement that creature's on the border Ethereal are invisible to creates on material? Is the lantern a magic effect that does not overlap into the Ethereal? If so then why does Magic Circle stop creatures on the Ethereal?
There are too many situational issues and a DM can choose to interpret them for their table as the arbiter but then all rules need to match to that new ruling. If they wanted it to be super clear every item would need so much text to clarify its use in every instance which is crazy.
The lantern of revealing does three things and three things only.
If you want a specific reason why the lantern of revealing does not illuminate creatures in the Ethereal plane, it's is because they are out of the range of the lantern's 30 foot area of bright light. Creatures on other planes are infinitely far away using conventional distance terminology. This interpretation is backed up as RAI in this tweet discussing spell effects across planes.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Yes, I am aware of that situation but that contradicts the Night Hag's ability to touch a creature while in the Ethereal. It is a silly point but there are contradicts that just don't make sense based on the wording, hence why the creators said the DM's ruling is final.
I appreciate your back and forth regarding this but don't feel like you have to reply to try and win anything. 🤓
"
Nightmare Haunting (1/Day): While on the Ethereal Plane, the hag magically touches a sleeping Humanoid on The Material Plane. A Protection from Evil and Good spell cast on the target prevents this contact, as does a Magic Circle. As long as the contact persists, the target has dreadful visions. If these visions last for at least 1 hour, the target gains no benefit from its rest, and its hit point maximum is reduced by 5 (1d10). If this effect reduces the target's hit point maximum to 0, the target dies, and if the target was evil, its soul is trapped in the hag's Soul Bag. The reduction to the target's hit point maximum lasts until removed by the Greater Restoration spell or similar magic"
I'm running this same exact scenario and was looking to see what the hive mind thought about it. My thoughts are that the Lantern would indeed reveal the Hag as though casting a See Invisibility spell. In our case, the party still has to find a way to interact with the Hag (Force damage spells, etc.). I think it would be a cool moment when the Hag is either revealed or the party member on watch sees it descend upon the victim while they sleep- CREEPY!
One thing to note is that while creatures in the Ethereal plane are invisible, they are not invisible as in the condition . They are in another place entirely. This is backed up from the description of the etherealness which does not even use the word "invisible". the see invisibility specifically allows the caster to percieve the ethereal plane, but that is due to the specific rule of that spell, not because the creature in the plane is invisible. the wording even says it as an additive thing, as if ethereal sight and seeing invisible creatures are separate.
As to the Night Hag...their magic is innate, and can break the general rules of the Ethereal plane under the "specific beats general" rule. It would be a cool visual though, and I might play it as you get a faint glimpse rather than a full view of the hag at work.
It depends on the hag. If it's a night hag as iconrising says, then it benefits from etherealness, which we have already established will not be revealed. If it is a green hag, then its invisible passage feature turns the hag invisible and that would indeed be revealed by the lantern of revealing. A sea hag's illusory appearance would not be exposed with the lantern.
"Not all those who wander are lost"