Disadvantage on Concentration checks isn't really worth it unless you're a paladin. Your average martial isn't going to be doing more than 20+ damage in a single swing, so the concentration check DC is always going to be pretty low, even at high levels.
Gotta make a big boom if you want to break conc reliably.
I recently came to the conclusion that eldritch knight's features make more sense as an anti-mage martial rather than as a pitiful attempt at a gish.
The mage slayer feat is kinda terrible. Like it is good if enemy spellcasters rush you and try to cast spells in melee range and does almost nothing if they don't. And we all know how close casters like being to enemy martials... counterspell and dispel magic are purely better at actually doing what the feat thinks it can do.
The main benefit I see from mage slayer is the concentration disadvantage. If you make a build with eldritch blast (repelling, agonizing) and take mage slayer, then that's 4 attacks. If any hit, then the enemy is probably going to lose concentration, and if not, then maybe the next one.
Or just cast dispel magic and end the spell without a save. Or just cast magic missile and have them make 3 saves without a chance of an attack missing. Or if we are talking about being level 17+ anyway, just cast meteor swarm or power word kill or disintegrate or banishment and delete the caster along with their spell... And you can always use silvery barbs to give disadvantage on any 1 save to make the above spells even more likely to work.
Mage slayer doesn't really do anything worth giving up better feats or an ASI for, IMHO.
To be fair, 4 eldritch blasts is probably going to end it instantly, but may as well get insurance for a "just in case" scenario.
I’m not sure the mage slayer feat was designed with a spell caster in mind. The example you just gave is a big part of my thinking not.
I have wondered about good story-based anti-mage builds too, but ultimately I have never played in a game where enough of the enemies were spellcasters that such a specialized build would get a satisfying level of use to be worth exploring.
When I was playing Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden, we came across a spellcasters quite a lot. One homebrew campaign I have been in also used spellcasters often but I have been in other campaigns where we never fought any mages. I think of it as if you built a character to specialize in hunting dragons. You will probably not come across dragons all the time, but when you do, you will be able to hold your own against them. I feel like it is a risky move building an entire character to fight one specific type of monster because they might be wasted and never or rarely come across the monster you want to fight.
It is important to ask whether the intent is to take out one high level mage (over 10th level) at a time or to kill multiple "support/cannon fodder" mages (8th level and under).
Any smite-based builds are less useful against a room with multiple mages who are about the same level, but great against an Archmage or Lich.
Against multiple mages, builds that include the Silence spell and abilities or spells that disrupt line of sight become a lot more clutch.
Yaun-Ti or a race that is something other than humanoid Ancients Paladin 8 Shadow Monk 5 Divine Soul Sorcerer 5 Fighter 2
Focus on Charisma and Strenght
Ancients Paladin gives us all the paladin things, higher saving throw bonuses, resistance, and smites for dealing with those casters asap Shadow monk is something you could also substitute out realistically, but I like it for this build. The main things are being able to punish the casters before they can do anything, and the silence spell
Divine soul sorcerer is for subtle spell, and being able to succeed on any save that may come our way.
Feats Get athletics expertise Mageslayer can work, but is not necessary
General idea
Ambush makes us almost quaranteed to win.
Runs upto caster Subtle casts silence Action surge Grapple (our... idk +17 vs a possible like +9 on a good day Use the rest of our attacks the pummel the *****, smiting if you feel like it. (Enemy also can't use shield, which is fun). Can also try and stun if you are particularly scared of this caster
Roll init
Whoever goes first, unless the enemy caster can ignore verbal components all they can really do is struggle against our grapple. Misty step does not work, due to It's verbal component.
Rinse and repeat until you win
Shadow monk can be substituted out for just some sorc or paladin levels, same with fighter. This would make a more well versed character, who is not as good at pummeling makes in 6 seconds.
The main thing is grapple + subtle silence spell. After that most casters are quite helpless.
I personally liked "Treantmonk's" mage hunter conditions and build.
He figured the most important characteristics were: 1. win initiative 2. cast silence (without being counterspelled) 3. move to melee with enemy caster 4. grapple caster in silence
With that in mind the went:
Name: Bad Kitty SPECIES: Tabaxi (Feline agility allows move double speed until end of turn). ABILITY SCORES STR = 13 (+1) DEX = 14 (+2) CON = 14 (+2) INT = 9 (-1) WIS = 8 (-1) CHA = 17 (+3)
CLASS 5 levels - 1-5: Sorcerer (Wild Magic) -ability: Tides of Chaos - Gain advantage on a grapple check you'll make -metamagic: Quickened Spell (cast silence as a bonus action to save Action for grapple), Subtle Spell (cast in silence without Verbal component) -magical guidance: spend 1 sorcery point to reroll an ability check (failed grapple) FEAT L4: Fey Touched - L1 spell: Gift of Alacrity (8 hours +1d8 to initiative).
SPELLS: Cantrips: Firebolt, Green-Flame Blade, Shocking Grasp (hit = no reactions like counterspell), Mage Hand, Booming Blade L1: Shield, Mage Armor L2: Web, Mirror Image L3: Counterspell, Fireball (rather than Dispel Magic, just to be useful outside of dealing with mages)
CLASS 3 levels - 6-8: BARD (College of Eloquence) - Jack of all Trades: add half proficiency bonus to ability check without proficiency bonus (Initiative, counterspell check, dispell magic if taken) - Expertise - Athletics (grapple), Perception - Unsettling Words - subtract saving throws
SPELLS: Cantrip: Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation L1: Healing Word, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Longstrider (increase speed by 10') L2: Aid, Blindness/Deafness, Silence (The doom of a mage)
TACTIC 1st Turn (Available from L8): Initiative roll: +3 Initiative and Gift of Alacrity for +1d8 - PlanB on initiative loss: counterspell Move: Longstrider for +10' plus Feline Agility for double speed (enough move to get out of sight in tight space for casting Silence then run back) Bonus Action: quicken cast silence outside 60' to avoid counterspell, run the 60' to melee range with mage - PlanB if within counterspell distance, subtle cast silence as an action but miss grapple part of strategy this turn Action: Grapple Athletics check = D20+5 (Tides of Chaos = Advantage on check) - Failed roll = magical guidance to re-roll
Issues: low damage dealing
Check "The Real Mage Hunter" Video on Treantmonk's YT Channel for the details and further levelling.
Without diving into homebrew, what is the best character build intended for killing mages? I know the mageslayer feat is obvious, but between all the feats, species traits, class and sub-class abilities, resistances, magic items, spells, and multi-classing, what combination would be an absolute nightmare for a mage to fight? I know the ability to cast counterspell and silence would be a great boon. Any other ideas on how to make such a character with all those options? I'm imagining roughly 13th or 14th level currently with a roadmap on where to go for higher levels.
The ones that win initiative and fighters. If you multiclass you just go like one level of rogue, get hex or hunters mark.
You could also try my "quickling" build in the "Monk" section.
Basically a super fast character. Just pick "mage slayer" instead of alert. Once you have a few levels under your belly this character is fast enough to either be completely out of range for most spells or to run into melee combat and start whaling on the poor wizard. His movement ignores opportunity attacks, difficult terrain and he can move through other creatures spaces as long as they are at medium size or larger... and if needed he can also run along vertical surfaces or over liquids. So he WILL get to where ever he wants to go. Combine this with stunning attack (as many wizards have not the best con-saves) and you should be good.
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Disadvantage on Concentration checks isn't really worth it unless you're a paladin. Your average martial isn't going to be doing more than 20+ damage in a single swing, so the concentration check DC is always going to be pretty low, even at high levels.
Gotta make a big boom if you want to break conc reliably.
To be fair, 4 eldritch blasts is probably going to end it instantly, but may as well get insurance for a "just in case" scenario.
DMing:
Dragons of Stormwreck Isle
Playing:
None sadly.
Optimization Guides:
Literally Too Angry to Die - A Guide to Optimizing a Barbarian
I’m not sure the mage slayer feat was designed with a spell caster in mind. The example you just gave is a big part of my thinking not.
I have wondered about good story-based anti-mage builds too, but ultimately I have never played in a game where enough of the enemies were spellcasters that such a specialized build would get a satisfying level of use to be worth exploring.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
When I was playing Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden, we came across a spellcasters quite a lot. One homebrew campaign I have been in also used spellcasters often but I have been in other campaigns where we never fought any mages. I think of it as if you built a character to specialize in hunting dragons. You will probably not come across dragons all the time, but when you do, you will be able to hold your own against them. I feel like it is a risky move building an entire character to fight one specific type of monster because they might be wasted and never or rarely come across the monster you want to fight.
It is important to ask whether the intent is to take out one high level mage (over 10th level) at a time or to kill multiple "support/cannon fodder" mages (8th level and under).
Any smite-based builds are less useful against a room with multiple mages who are about the same level, but great against an Archmage or Lich.
Against multiple mages, builds that include the Silence spell and abilities or spells that disrupt line of sight become a lot more clutch.
Yaun-Ti or a race that is something other than humanoid
Ancients Paladin 8
Shadow Monk 5
Divine Soul Sorcerer 5
Fighter 2
Focus on Charisma and Strenght
Ancients Paladin gives us all the paladin things, higher saving throw bonuses, resistance, and smites for dealing with those casters asap
Shadow monk is something you could also substitute out realistically, but I like it for this build. The main things are being able to punish the casters before they can do anything, and the silence spell
Divine soul sorcerer is for subtle spell, and being able to succeed on any save that may come our way.
Feats
Get athletics expertise
Mageslayer can work, but is not necessary
General idea
Ambush makes us almost quaranteed to win.
Runs upto caster
Subtle casts silence
Action surge
Grapple (our... idk +17 vs a possible like +9 on a good day
Use the rest of our attacks the pummel the *****, smiting if you feel like it. (Enemy also can't use shield, which is fun). Can also try and stun if you are particularly scared of this caster
Roll init
Whoever goes first, unless the enemy caster can ignore verbal components all they can really do is struggle against our grapple. Misty step does not work, due to It's verbal component.
Rinse and repeat until you win
Shadow monk can be substituted out for just some sorc or paladin levels, same with fighter. This would make a more well versed character, who is not as good at pummeling makes in 6 seconds.
The main thing is grapple + subtle silence spell. After that most casters are quite helpless.
I personally liked "Treantmonk's" mage hunter conditions and build.
He figured the most important characteristics were:
1. win initiative
2. cast silence (without being counterspelled)
3. move to melee with enemy caster
4. grapple caster in silence
With that in mind the went:
Name: Bad Kitty
SPECIES: Tabaxi (Feline agility allows move double speed until end of turn).
ABILITY SCORES
STR = 13 (+1)
DEX = 14 (+2)
CON = 14 (+2)
INT = 9 (-1)
WIS = 8 (-1)
CHA = 17 (+3)
CLASS 5 levels - 1-5: Sorcerer (Wild Magic)
-ability: Tides of Chaos - Gain advantage on a grapple check you'll make
-metamagic: Quickened Spell (cast silence as a bonus action to save Action for grapple), Subtle Spell (cast in silence without Verbal component)
-magical guidance: spend 1 sorcery point to reroll an ability check (failed grapple)
FEAT L4: Fey Touched - L1 spell: Gift of Alacrity (8 hours +1d8 to initiative).
SPELLS:
Cantrips: Firebolt, Green-Flame Blade, Shocking Grasp (hit = no reactions like counterspell), Mage Hand, Booming Blade
L1: Shield, Mage Armor
L2: Web, Mirror Image
L3: Counterspell, Fireball (rather than Dispel Magic, just to be useful outside of dealing with mages)
CLASS 3 levels - 6-8: BARD (College of Eloquence)
- Jack of all Trades: add half proficiency bonus to ability check without proficiency bonus (Initiative, counterspell check, dispell magic if taken)
- Expertise - Athletics (grapple), Perception
- Unsettling Words - subtract saving throws
SPELLS:
Cantrip: Minor Illusion, Prestidigitation
L1: Healing Word, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Longstrider (increase speed by 10')
L2: Aid, Blindness/Deafness, Silence (The doom of a mage)
TACTIC 1st Turn (Available from L8):
Initiative roll: +3 Initiative and Gift of Alacrity for +1d8
- PlanB on initiative loss: counterspell
Move: Longstrider for +10' plus Feline Agility for double speed (enough move to get out of sight in tight space for casting Silence then run back)
Bonus Action: quicken cast silence outside 60' to avoid counterspell, run the 60' to melee range with mage
- PlanB if within counterspell distance, subtle cast silence as an action but miss grapple part of strategy this turn
Action: Grapple Athletics check = D20+5 (Tides of Chaos = Advantage on check) - Failed roll = magical guidance to re-roll
Issues: low damage dealing
Check "The Real Mage Hunter" Video on Treantmonk's YT Channel for the details and further levelling.
The best build to kill mages is ... a mage. Send a wolf to catch a wolf.
The ones that win initiative and fighters. If you multiclass you just go like one level of rogue, get hex or hunters mark.
You could also try my "quickling" build in the "Monk" section.
Basically a super fast character. Just pick "mage slayer" instead of alert. Once you have a few levels under your belly this character is fast enough to either be completely out of range for most spells or to run into melee combat and start whaling on the poor wizard. His movement ignores opportunity attacks, difficult terrain and he can move through other creatures spaces as long as they are at medium size or larger... and if needed he can also run along vertical surfaces or over liquids. So he WILL get to where ever he wants to go. Combine this with stunning attack (as many wizards have not the best con-saves) and you should be good.