When I was reading through "The Dungeon of the Mad Mage", I ran into this:
Silence. A permanent silence spell blots out all noise in this 20-foot-high room. A successful dispel magic spell (DC 17) ends the effect
I realize that as a DM, I can just make this happen, but wondering if there is a RAW in 5e that extends a spell's duration to permanent? Not finding it so far.
Outside of a handful of spells with specific caveats for making their effect permanent, typically daily casts for anything from a week to a year, I do not believe there’s any other rules for taking the effect of a limited duration spell and making it permanent in 5e. If your players are looking to do it and you want a starting point on how to make it happen, I’d say review the guidelines for designing a magic item in the DMG and the suggested rules for magic item crafting in Xanathar’s Guide to Everything
I never liked the idea of DM's just hand waving a spell effect or magic item without the player having a way to replicate it or counter it.
Eh, personally I don’t think it’s an issue, anymore than monsters having their own powers, Legendary Resistances, and Legendary and Lair actions are an issue. DMs have a different kit of tools than players.
I am not talking about monster and their abilities but NPC's which should be, logically be, built like PC's. How many times have we seen a bad guy get away because the DM didn't want him to die right then, but when he does eventually get defeated there is nothing that could possibly explain his escape.
If your going to keep the permanency spell out of the hand of casters then take the ability away from everyone except the gods.
In fact there are some spells that can be made permanent. I guess we need to take those away also.
Lets see. A caster wants to make a wand of web. If he just casts a web spell on it and follows any other rules of his DM it logically should be a one charge wand. Or at best only have as many charges as he casts into it. Right? If he casts permanency on it it the caster could make it a daily thing. If your want you could make a rule that says Permanency can only be used with spells lower than it was cast. It could also be removed with a simple dispel magic.
I am not talking about monster and their abilities but NPC's which should be, logically be, built like PC's. How many times have we seen a bad guy get away because the DM didn't want him to die right then, but when he does eventually get defeated there is nothing that could possibly explain his escape.
If your going to keep the permanency spell out of the hand of casters then take the ability away from everyone except the gods.
In fact there are some spells that can be made permanent. I guess we need to take those away also.
Lets see. A caster wants to make a wand of web. If he just casts a web spell on it and follows any other rules of his DM it logically should be a one charge wand. Or at best only have as many charges as he casts into it. Right? If he casts permanency on it it the caster could make it a daily thing. If your want you could make a rule that says Permanency can only be used with spells lower than it was cast. It could also be removed with a simple dispel magic.
The monster vs NPC distinction is one without a difference. The DM has the discretion to design and utilize statblocks that function differently from PC’s. D&D is an asymmetric game, and attempting to make it wholly symmetric would be a lot of work for what would probably be judged an inferior product
Outside of a handful of spells with specific caveats for making their effect permanent, typically daily casts for anything from a week to a year, I do not believe there’s any other rules for taking the effect of a limited duration spell and making it permanent in 5e. If your players are looking to do it and you want a starting point on how to make it happen, I’d say review the guidelines for designing a magic item in the DMG and the suggested rules for magic item crafting in Xanathar’s Guide to Everything
Fair enough, but I'm wondering how did a permanent Silence spell occur in "Dungeon of the Mad Mage?"
Outside of a handful of spells with specific caveats for making their effect permanent, typically daily casts for anything from a week to a year, I do not believe there’s any other rules for taking the effect of a limited duration spell and making it permanent in 5e. If your players are looking to do it and you want a starting point on how to make it happen, I’d say review the guidelines for designing a magic item in the DMG and the suggested rules for magic item crafting in Xanathar’s Guide to Everything
Fair enough, but I'm wondering how did a permanent Silence spell occur in "Dungeon of the Mad Mage?"
You mean from a lore perspective? Lore-wise, magic is significantly more versatile than “a spell does what it says and nothing more”. But, as this doesn’t translate to the still fairly crunchy playstyle of even 5e, that’s left purely as DM fiat rather than anything codified.
Outside of a handful of spells with specific caveats for making their effect permanent, typically daily casts for anything from a week to a year, I do not believe there’s any other rules for taking the effect of a limited duration spell and making it permanent in 5e. If your players are looking to do it and you want a starting point on how to make it happen, I’d say review the guidelines for designing a magic item in the DMG and the suggested rules for magic item crafting in Xanathar’s Guide to Everything
Fair enough, but I'm wondering how did a permanent Silence spell occur in "Dungeon of the Mad Mage?"
You mean from a lore perspective? Lore-wise, magic is significantly more versatile than “a spell does what it says and nothing more”. But, as this doesn’t translate to the still fairly crunchy playstyle of even 5e, that’s left purely as DM fiat rather than anything codified.
Not from a lore perspective, from a mechanical perspective. In other words, using the DMG, PHB, or any other source for that matter, how did the "permanent Silence" spell come into existence at all? It does exist as it's mentioned in the "Dungeon of the Mad Mage". I'm just trying to figure out what game mechanics and/or RAW exist to support its existence, or if it's just purely "creative license"?
Not from a lore perspective, from a mechanical perspective. In other words, using the DMG, PHB, or any other source for that matter, how did the "permanent Silence" spell come into existence at all? It does exist as it's mentioned in the "Dungeon of the Mad Mage". I'm just trying to figure out what game mechanics and/or RAW exist to support its existence, or if it's just purely "creative license"?
It's a dungeon component, it has the same amount of rules as any other part of building a dungeon, which is to say none. If a PC wants to build something like it, treat it as a magic item.
Outside of a handful of spells with specific caveats for making their effect permanent, typically daily casts for anything from a week to a year, I do not believe there’s any other rules for taking the effect of a limited duration spell and making it permanent in 5e. If your players are looking to do it and you want a starting point on how to make it happen, I’d say review the guidelines for designing a magic item in the DMG and the suggested rules for magic item crafting in Xanathar’s Guide to Everything
Fair enough, but I'm wondering how did a permanent Silence spell occur in "Dungeon of the Mad Mage?"
You mean from a lore perspective? Lore-wise, magic is significantly more versatile than “a spell does what it says and nothing more”. But, as this doesn’t translate to the still fairly crunchy playstyle of even 5e, that’s left purely as DM fiat rather than anything codified.
Not from a lore perspective, from a mechanical perspective. In other words, using the DMG, PHB, or any other source for that matter, how did the "permanent Silence" spell come into existence at all? It does exist as it's mentioned in the "Dungeon of the Mad Mage". I'm just trying to figure out what game mechanics and/or RAW exist to support its existence, or if it's just purely "creative license"?
DM fiat. There’s more to magic than the explicitly defined spells, features, and items. Xanathar’s Guide has examples of some magic traps, for instance.
Ok got it! Thanks for the explanations! I wasn't looking for a way for a PC to make the spell, I just wanted to be able to explain it if it was questioned, and also just in case a PC wanted to figure out how to duplicate such a spell.
I mean, I'd be judicious about PC's "duplicating" these kind of effects. The books already come with a decent spread of spells for traps, wards, and such designed for use by players. As has been said, magic item crafting is an option, but it's pretty time-intensive in-universe, probably by design to keep it as a "sometimes" feature.
What you are looking for is Hallow it can create silence until dispelled.
No, Hallow simply creates a boundary sound cannot cross in either direction. One can still speak clearly within the effect, it just can't be heard from outside.
What you are looking for is Hallow it can create silence until dispelled.
No, Hallow simply creates a boundary sound cannot cross in either direction. One can still speak clearly within the effect, it just can't be heard from outside.
No, I don't think that's right. The spell's "silence" effect clearly states "no sound can emanate from within the area." If you're trying to speak from within the area, you're not making sound.
What you are looking for is Hallow it can create silence until dispelled.
No, Hallow simply creates a boundary sound cannot cross in either direction. One can still speak clearly within the effect, it just can't be heard from outside.
No, I don't think that's right. The spell's "silence" effect clearly states "no sound can emanate from within the area." If you're trying to speak from within the area, you're not making sound.
Compare it to the description for Silence, which specifically says "no sound can be created" within the AoE. "Emanate" means "to spread out from a source" and if "within the area" is the source, then it follows that sound that originates within the area is only stopped at the boundary.
What you are looking for is Hallow it can create silence until dispelled.
No, Hallow simply creates a boundary sound cannot cross in either direction. One can still speak clearly within the effect, it just can't be heard from outside.
No, I don't think that's right. The spell's "silence" effect clearly states "no sound can emanate from within the area." If you're trying to speak from within the area, you're not making sound.
Compare it to the description for Silence, which specifically says "no sound can be created" within the AoE. "Emanate" means "to spread out from a source" and if "within the area" is the source, then it follows that sound that originates within the area is only stopped at the boundary.
No, that doesn’t follow at all. It says no sound can emanate from within the area, not that no sound can pass the border of the area. If you and I are five feet apart and both within the area, sound must emanate from me to you in order for you to hear me. The text explicitly states that that can’t happen.
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When I was reading through "The Dungeon of the Mad Mage", I ran into this:
I realize that as a DM, I can just make this happen, but wondering if there is a RAW in 5e that extends a spell's duration to permanent? Not finding it so far.
Thanks!
Outside of a handful of spells with specific caveats for making their effect permanent, typically daily casts for anything from a week to a year, I do not believe there’s any other rules for taking the effect of a limited duration spell and making it permanent in 5e. If your players are looking to do it and you want a starting point on how to make it happen, I’d say review the guidelines for designing a magic item in the DMG and the suggested rules for magic item crafting in Xanathar’s Guide to Everything
There's always Wish
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Their used to be a permanency spell just for doing this.
It also helped in the creation of magic items.
I never liked the idea of DM's just hand waving a spell effect or magic item without the player having a way to replicate it or counter it.
Eh, personally I don’t think it’s an issue, anymore than monsters having their own powers, Legendary Resistances, and Legendary and Lair actions are an issue. DMs have a different kit of tools than players.
It is best to keep the permanent spells out of the hands of the player characters.
I am not talking about monster and their abilities but NPC's which should be, logically be, built like PC's. How many times have we seen a bad guy get away because the DM didn't want him to die right then, but when he does eventually get defeated there is nothing that could possibly explain his escape.
If your going to keep the permanency spell out of the hand of casters then take the ability away from everyone except the gods.
In fact there are some spells that can be made permanent. I guess we need to take those away also.
Lets see. A caster wants to make a wand of web. If he just casts a web spell on it and follows any other rules of his DM it logically should be a one charge wand. Or at best only have as many charges as he casts into it. Right?
If he casts permanency on it it the caster could make it a daily thing.
If your want you could make a rule that says Permanency can only be used with spells lower than it was cast.
It could also be removed with a simple dispel magic.
The monster vs NPC distinction is one without a difference. The DM has the discretion to design and utilize statblocks that function differently from PC’s. D&D is an asymmetric game, and attempting to make it wholly symmetric would be a lot of work for what would probably be judged an inferior product
Fair enough, but I'm wondering how did a permanent Silence spell occur in "Dungeon of the Mad Mage?"
You mean from a lore perspective? Lore-wise, magic is significantly more versatile than “a spell does what it says and nothing more”. But, as this doesn’t translate to the still fairly crunchy playstyle of even 5e, that’s left purely as DM fiat rather than anything codified.
Not from a lore perspective, from a mechanical perspective. In other words, using the DMG, PHB, or any other source for that matter, how did the "permanent Silence" spell come into existence at all? It does exist as it's mentioned in the "Dungeon of the Mad Mage". I'm just trying to figure out what game mechanics and/or RAW exist to support its existence, or if it's just purely "creative license"?
It's a dungeon component, it has the same amount of rules as any other part of building a dungeon, which is to say none. If a PC wants to build something like it, treat it as a magic item.
DM fiat. There’s more to magic than the explicitly defined spells, features, and items. Xanathar’s Guide has examples of some magic traps, for instance.
Ok got it! Thanks for the explanations! I wasn't looking for a way for a PC to make the spell, I just wanted to be able to explain it if it was questioned, and also just in case a PC wanted to figure out how to duplicate such a spell.
I mean, I'd be judicious about PC's "duplicating" these kind of effects. The books already come with a decent spread of spells for traps, wards, and such designed for use by players. As has been said, magic item crafting is an option, but it's pretty time-intensive in-universe, probably by design to keep it as a "sometimes" feature.
What you are looking for is Hallow it can create silence until dispelled.
No, Hallow simply creates a boundary sound cannot cross in either direction. One can still speak clearly within the effect, it just can't be heard from outside.
No, I don't think that's right. The spell's "silence" effect clearly states "no sound can emanate from within the area." If you're trying to speak from within the area, you're not making sound.
Compare it to the description for Silence, which specifically says "no sound can be created" within the AoE. "Emanate" means "to spread out from a source" and if "within the area" is the source, then it follows that sound that originates within the area is only stopped at the boundary.
No, that doesn’t follow at all. It says no sound can emanate from within the area, not that no sound can pass the border of the area. If you and I are five feet apart and both within the area, sound must emanate from me to you in order for you to hear me. The text explicitly states that that can’t happen.