Situation: I'm planning on playing a Warlock with a pact of the chain Imp familiar. So far we've been handling invisibility as being "undetectability", at least in combat.
Now if my invisible, flying Imp occupies square 1 and a medium or larger creature moves through it, he can but: Since he faces heavy terrain on that square he'd know there's a creature in that square. Does this even apply when the Imp would be flying high enough to not possibly be able to collide with that creature (by logic)?
Also what if for some reason the creature decided to be trying to stand in the square my Imp is in?
While it is common to use a grided map in combat and refer to places on the map as 'squares' that is just because we are using a flat map. Once creatures are no longer on the same plane it is more accurate to think of the game space as being broken up into 5'x5'x5' cubes, rather than 5'x5' squares.
So if your imp is flying high enough that an enemy wouldn't bump into your imp when walking under them, then they don't. The enemies movement doesn't take them through the cube your imp occupies.
Oh, as for trying to stop in another creatures space, the rules don't give a specific answer. In general the rules assume everyone always makes valid choices. So when a creature unknowingly tries to end their movement in the space of an invisible creature it is up to the DM to decide what happens.
Personally I handle it like this: when a player tries to enter the space of an invisible creature I pause their movement at the last valid square they occupied before bumping into the invisible creature. If the player can't move through the invisible creatures space I tell them and they can choose where to move from there.
If you are asking if you can accidentally bump into an invisible creature and reveal its location, yes you can.
Here are some relevant rules on moving through creature spaces as a reminder:
Moving Around Other Creatures
You can move through a nonhostile creature’s space. In contrast, you can move through a hostile creature’s space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you. Remember that another creature’s space is difficult terrain for you.
Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can’t willingly end your move in its space.
As mentioned by others, if the creature is flying, then creatures below it are not in its space. 3d reality vs 2d maps and all that.
Thank you all for the replies, I'm glad they fit what I way thinking. Now just for the really improbable case of man Imp being on "Street level". I guess enemies could bump into my Imp?
As they can move through it's space one could argue a medium or bigger creature shouldn't bump into it but you could also argue some kind of "shoving" or squeezing involved in the movement.
Also, you've been mentioning thinking in cubes. Since you're basically also attacking cubes, you'd have to pinpoint not only the direction but the height when attacking flying creatures, right?
Thank you all for the replies, I'm glad they fit what I way thinking. Now just for the really improbable case of man Imp being on "Street level". I guess enemies could bump into my Imp?
If the imp decides that is not being hostile, then it won't impede the movement of other creatures.
Thank you all for the replies, I'm glad they fit what I way thinking. Now just for the really improbable case of man Imp being on "Street level". I guess enemies could bump into my Imp?
If the imp decides that is not being hostile, then it won't impede the movement of other creatures.
As mentioned in the rule I quoted, another creature's space is always difficult terrain unless they are 2 sizes different, RAW.
I think it is an oft forgotten rule and never followed for allies. I certainly forgot about it until this thread.
Size and invisibility doesn't change the fact that you can’t willingly end your move in another creature's space. But if the imp is flying above it it's different and doesn't matter to Moving Around Other Creatures.
Side note: invisibility is not undetectability. The rules for stealth, hiding, and invisibility are confusing (and I can't remember all the interactions off the top of my head right now), but someone else here could, I'm sure, shed some more light on how invisibility actually works.
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Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
Side note: invisibility is not undetectability. The rules for stealth, hiding, and invisibility are confusing (and I can't remember all the interactions off the top of my head right now), but someone else here could, I'm sure, shed some more light on how invisibility actually works.
I know you're right by RAW (and RAI obviously) but that's the way we've been handling it in our campaign. Of course this also applied to enemies which resulted in a specter almost TPK-ing us at lvl. 4 (though we've already been weakened in the dungeon).
Side note: invisibility is not undetectability. The rules for stealth, hiding, and invisibility are confusing (and I can't remember all the interactions off the top of my head right now), but someone else here could, I'm sure, shed some more light on how invisibility actually works.
I know you're right by RAW (and RAI obviously) but that's the way we've been handling it in our campaign. Of course this also applied to enemies which resulted in a specter almost TPK-ing us at lvl. 4 (though we've already been weakened in the dungeon).
No, I get that, I just wanted to make sure it was clear. You can never know if the people posting here have actually read the rules.... Lol. It's obviously no problem of anyone's if that's how your group wants to play it. You win D&D by havin' fun, so... have fun!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
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Situation: I'm planning on playing a Warlock with a pact of the chain Imp familiar. So far we've been handling invisibility as being "undetectability", at least in combat.
Now if my invisible, flying Imp occupies square 1 and a medium or larger creature moves through it, he can but: Since he faces heavy terrain on that square he'd know there's a creature in that square. Does this even apply when the Imp would be flying high enough to not possibly be able to collide with that creature (by logic)?
Also what if for some reason the creature decided to be trying to stand in the square my Imp is in?
I thought that Tiny creatures don't impede the movement of other creatures.
If the Imp is flying high, then they aren't in that square - they are in a space above that square.
While it is common to use a grided map in combat and refer to places on the map as 'squares' that is just because we are using a flat map. Once creatures are no longer on the same plane it is more accurate to think of the game space as being broken up into 5'x5'x5' cubes, rather than 5'x5' squares.
So if your imp is flying high enough that an enemy wouldn't bump into your imp when walking under them, then they don't. The enemies movement doesn't take them through the cube your imp occupies.
Oh, as for trying to stop in another creatures space, the rules don't give a specific answer. In general the rules assume everyone always makes valid choices. So when a creature unknowingly tries to end their movement in the space of an invisible creature it is up to the DM to decide what happens.
Personally I handle it like this: when a player tries to enter the space of an invisible creature I pause their movement at the last valid square they occupied before bumping into the invisible creature. If the player can't move through the invisible creatures space I tell them and they can choose where to move from there.
If you are asking if you can accidentally bump into an invisible creature and reveal its location, yes you can.
Here are some relevant rules on moving through creature spaces as a reminder:
As mentioned by others, if the creature is flying, then creatures below it are not in its space. 3d reality vs 2d maps and all that.
Thank you all for the replies, I'm glad they fit what I way thinking. Now just for the really improbable case of man Imp being on "Street level". I guess enemies could bump into my Imp?
As they can move through it's space one could argue a medium or bigger creature shouldn't bump into it but you could also argue some kind of "shoving" or squeezing involved in the movement.
Also, you've been mentioning thinking in cubes. Since you're basically also attacking cubes, you'd have to pinpoint not only the direction but the height when attacking flying creatures, right?
If the imp decides that is not being hostile, then it won't impede the movement of other creatures.
As mentioned in the rule I quoted, another creature's space is always difficult terrain unless they are 2 sizes different, RAW.
I think it is an oft forgotten rule and never followed for allies. I certainly forgot about it until this thread.
Size and invisibility doesn't change the fact that you can’t willingly end your move in another creature's space. But if the imp is flying above it it's different and doesn't matter to Moving Around Other Creatures.
Side note: invisibility is not undetectability. The rules for stealth, hiding, and invisibility are confusing (and I can't remember all the interactions off the top of my head right now), but someone else here could, I'm sure, shed some more light on how invisibility actually works.
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
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Again, thank you all for your help! :-)
I know you're right by RAW (and RAI obviously) but that's the way we've been handling it in our campaign. Of course this also applied to enemies which resulted in a specter almost TPK-ing us at lvl. 4 (though we've already been weakened in the dungeon).
No, I get that, I just wanted to make sure it was clear. You can never know if the people posting here have actually read the rules.... Lol. It's obviously no problem of anyone's if that's how your group wants to play it. You win D&D by havin' fun, so... have fun!
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.