Can a person catapult an object that is a container as long as its under the weight limit. and does the object break and add the damage with the contents
as long as it fits in the catapult bucket, why not. Probably won't get the same range due to aerodynamics but I would not expect more damage from contents scattering to the 3 winds on impact. I would actualy think less damage than a nice dense rock.
If you are talking about the Catapult spell then it can launch an object with a weight of 1-5 pounds. Personally, I'd rule a bag and its contents as one object from the perspective of the spell but another DM might not. (though since most objects can be subdivided, it becomes more difficult to define one object if a DM says no - but still up to them).
In terms of what happens when the bag hits the ground or a target, that is entirely up to the DM to decide, the rules don't cover it. The rules cover throwing a container of alchemists fire and other examples but not a bag that contains something else. The object inside the bag could break and just leak any contents inside the bag and do nothing. The objects in the bag might not break at all since the bag provides some cushioning. The DM might give each item in the bag a saving throw, or allocate some damage and see if anything breaks, but there is no rule for it so the DM determines some way to resolve the outcome.
If you are talking about the Catapult spell then it can launch an object with a weight of 1-5 pounds. Personally, I'd rule a bag and its contents as one object from the perspective of the spell but another DM might not. (though since most objects can be subdivided, it becomes more difficult to define one object if a DM says no - but still up to them).
In terms of what happens when the bag hits the ground or a target, that is entirely up to the DM to decide, the rules don't cover it. The rules cover throwing a container of alchemists fire and other examples but not a bag that contains something else. The object inside the bag could break and just leak any contents inside the bag and do nothing. The objects in the bag might not break at all since the bag provides some cushioning. The DM might give each item in the bag a saving throw, or allocate some damage and see if anything breaks, but there is no rule for it so the DM determines some way to resolve the outcome.
Anyway, the answer to this one is Ask your DM.
<embarrassed blush> I took it literally and was thinking of a catapult.
I suppose one could make a mortar with some sort of flammable something inside and a fuse that sticks out of it. Light the fuse and catapult.
But this could be a case of preparation being needed. Clay jars come in any size so putting your 1 thousand ball bearings into the jar would allow you to throw it and it would break on impact.
A small wooden barrel thrown would also break but depending on distance might not shatter but just leak.
As a DM this would come down to 2 important factors:
1: Do they expend resource to get it?
2: Are they trying to abuse it?
Whilst the goal often seems to be to provide a "realistic" resolution, sometimes you have to tell the players "no, because that would be too powerful and would break the game".
So, if they spend downtime to make sealed clay pots containing ball bearings and alchemists fire, which they have bought, then they use the catapult spell on it, you can be damn well certain that they are going to be rewarded for their efforts with a flaming slippery danger zone when they catapult them.
If they just say "I put a bunch of rocks in a bag, and then catapulted the bag, I expect each rock to deal catapult damage individually", then the answer is an obvious no.
If they get 2 bags of holding and arrange them to collapse into one another and thus summon a portal to the astral sea, and then catapult that, again this is resource expenditure and totally within the realms of possibility - a check would be arranged to ensure they hit correctly, and there would probably be a strength save to avoid being sucked in if anyone has anything to grab hold of, but it would definitely "work".
I follow the idea the Magic is not Equal to Physics which Crawford has confirmed in tweet. The catapult spell says: "The object flies in a straight line up to 90 feet in a direction you choose before falling to the ground, stopping early if it impacts against a solid surface."
I think its wrong to presume that the object acts as though its suddenly been hit or launched because it flies in a completely straight line, not adhering to gravity or wind, and then simply falls to the ground rather than continuing with momentum. With that wording, its more like it moves in the grasp of something that immediately stops its momentum at the end and releases it. It also stops immediately if it hits something solid, so it could hit a thin, glass windows and the window might be damaged but "the object strikes the target and stops moving". Its very specific that the object doesn't continue to carry momentum or doesn't exactly have momentum to begin with but is just the near instant movement of 5lb.
The damage is also a givaway that the magic appears to do the bludgeoning damage rather than the object, possibly as backlash for hitting something. You could hurl a 5lb rock or a piece of cotton, even an arrow pointed at the target, but it'll still cause 3d8 bludgeoning damage and an extra d8 per higher level of casting despite the size or composition of the object. There's also no mention of any knockback only damage.
Really, if they're trying to launch a 5lb bag or container that has 30lb of rocks or other material in it, then technically the bag is the only thing moving since they're purposely exluding the rocks and the bad immediately hits the physical rocks, ceasing movement and doing bludgeoning damage to itself and the first rock it's considered to hit. Same with some rope. Unless the rope itself and whatever the rope is tied to are part of the spell, then technically some part of the object is hitting the physical rope as it flies and should immediately stop and do bludgeoning damage to both itself and the rope. It shouldn't even move to the maximum length of the rope or carry any part of the rope somewhere.
NOTE also for higher spell slots: "using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the maximum weight of objects that you can target with this spell increases by 5 pounds"
I like the use of the word "objects" there as plural. But it also details that an extra dice of bludgeoning damage is done. I would regard "objects" as meaning that if the total 5lb is made up of more than one object held together, then the spell can encompass all those object and will move them together.
FURTHER: if the players were looking to better utilise the spell in some way then its worth nothing three things. 1. its an instant, accurate hit on something that can't mage a dex save. There is no roll to hit, for all intents and purposes the caster picks an object and a destination and the object flies straight at it. 2. The object can be sent less than 90ft by the spell's wording. This is completely safe since the spell specifies that the object travels to that point and drops. With this in mind, the player can catapult something to a point directly above their palm and lave it drop safely into their hand. a point directly above a jar sack or other container you want it to fall into, or a hat directly above someone's head. 3. The object's orientation isn't mentioned as changing. Not sure on a cheese for this, but I think its worth noting for any ideas around the object possibly tumbling or waving around with wind resistance.
FINALLY: There are two possible cheeses to the spell 1. While you need a A Clear Path to the Target the spell doesn't mention that you need to see it. a caster would be blocked by a closed, glass windows from casting on something they can see but technically they can cast on an object within 60' in a fog cloud. 2. Liquids. Note the "impacts against a solid surface." - following the continued magic is not physics law, the spell if very specific about impacting against a solid rather than liquid. This opens back up to barrels and pitchers full of some liquid that could be acid or flamable oil, to hurling object underwater.
DM HAT: Personally, for the above two, I would rule that you 1st need to have a good idea bout the existence and presence of the object to get past #1. For number 2, I would simply say that the hurled object passes through gasses and liquids as if they don't exist. Which would mean the barrel or pitcher would fly 90' and the liquid would be left to splash down where it is. That itself could be cheesed in ways but I feel like more thought would need to go into it and I like that idea.
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Can a person catapult an object that is a container as long as its under the weight limit. and does the object break and add the damage with the contents
as long as it fits in the catapult bucket, why not. Probably won't get the same range due to aerodynamics but I would not expect more damage from contents scattering to the 3 winds on impact. I would actualy think less damage than a nice dense rock.
If you are talking about the Catapult spell then it can launch an object with a weight of 1-5 pounds. Personally, I'd rule a bag and its contents as one object from the perspective of the spell but another DM might not. (though since most objects can be subdivided, it becomes more difficult to define one object if a DM says no - but still up to them).
In terms of what happens when the bag hits the ground or a target, that is entirely up to the DM to decide, the rules don't cover it. The rules cover throwing a container of alchemists fire and other examples but not a bag that contains something else. The object inside the bag could break and just leak any contents inside the bag and do nothing. The objects in the bag might not break at all since the bag provides some cushioning. The DM might give each item in the bag a saving throw, or allocate some damage and see if anything breaks, but there is no rule for it so the DM determines some way to resolve the outcome.
Anyway, the answer to this one is Ask your DM.
<embarrassed blush> I took it literally and was thinking of a catapult.
I suppose one could make a mortar with some sort of flammable something inside and a fuse that sticks out of it. Light the fuse and catapult.
I would rule a bag would not break.
But this could be a case of preparation being needed. Clay jars come in any size so putting your 1 thousand ball bearings into the jar would allow you to throw it and it would break on impact.
A small wooden barrel thrown would also break but depending on distance might not shatter but just leak.
As a DM this would come down to 2 important factors:
1: Do they expend resource to get it?
2: Are they trying to abuse it?
Whilst the goal often seems to be to provide a "realistic" resolution, sometimes you have to tell the players "no, because that would be too powerful and would break the game".
So, if they spend downtime to make sealed clay pots containing ball bearings and alchemists fire, which they have bought, then they use the catapult spell on it, you can be damn well certain that they are going to be rewarded for their efforts with a flaming slippery danger zone when they catapult them.
If they just say "I put a bunch of rocks in a bag, and then catapulted the bag, I expect each rock to deal catapult damage individually", then the answer is an obvious no.
If they get 2 bags of holding and arrange them to collapse into one another and thus summon a portal to the astral sea, and then catapult that, again this is resource expenditure and totally within the realms of possibility - a check would be arranged to ensure they hit correctly, and there would probably be a strength save to avoid being sucked in if anyone has anything to grab hold of, but it would definitely "work".
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I follow the idea the Magic is not Equal to Physics which Crawford has confirmed in tweet. The catapult spell says: "The object flies in a straight line up to 90 feet in a direction you choose before falling to the ground, stopping early if it impacts against a solid surface."
I think its wrong to presume that the object acts as though its suddenly been hit or launched because it flies in a completely straight line, not adhering to gravity or wind, and then simply falls to the ground rather than continuing with momentum. With that wording, its more like it moves in the grasp of something that immediately stops its momentum at the end and releases it. It also stops immediately if it hits something solid, so it could hit a thin, glass windows and the window might be damaged but "the object strikes the target and stops moving". Its very specific that the object doesn't continue to carry momentum or doesn't exactly have momentum to begin with but is just the near instant movement of 5lb.
The damage is also a givaway that the magic appears to do the bludgeoning damage rather than the object, possibly as backlash for hitting something. You could hurl a 5lb rock or a piece of cotton, even an arrow pointed at the target, but it'll still cause 3d8 bludgeoning damage and an extra d8 per higher level of casting despite the size or composition of the object. There's also no mention of any knockback only damage.
Really, if they're trying to launch a 5lb bag or container that has 30lb of rocks or other material in it, then technically the bag is the only thing moving since they're purposely exluding the rocks and the bad immediately hits the physical rocks, ceasing movement and doing bludgeoning damage to itself and the first rock it's considered to hit. Same with some rope. Unless the rope itself and whatever the rope is tied to are part of the spell, then technically some part of the object is hitting the physical rope as it flies and should immediately stop and do bludgeoning damage to both itself and the rope. It shouldn't even move to the maximum length of the rope or carry any part of the rope somewhere.
NOTE also for higher spell slots: "using a spell slot of 2nd level or higher, the maximum weight of objects that you can target with this spell increases by 5 pounds"
I like the use of the word "objects" there as plural. But it also details that an extra dice of bludgeoning damage is done. I would regard "objects" as meaning that if the total 5lb is made up of more than one object held together, then the spell can encompass all those object and will move them together.
FURTHER: if the players were looking to better utilise the spell in some way then its worth nothing three things.
1. its an instant, accurate hit on something that can't mage a dex save. There is no roll to hit, for all intents and purposes the caster picks an object and a destination and the object flies straight at it.
2. The object can be sent less than 90ft by the spell's wording. This is completely safe since the spell specifies that the object travels to that point and drops. With this in mind, the player can catapult something to a point directly above their palm and lave it drop safely into their hand. a point directly above a jar sack or other container you want it to fall into, or a hat directly above someone's head.
3. The object's orientation isn't mentioned as changing. Not sure on a cheese for this, but I think its worth noting for any ideas around the object possibly tumbling or waving around with wind resistance.
FINALLY: There are two possible cheeses to the spell
1. While you need a A Clear Path to the Target the spell doesn't mention that you need to see it. a caster would be blocked by a closed, glass windows from casting on something they can see but technically they can cast on an object within 60' in a fog cloud.
2. Liquids. Note the "impacts against a solid surface." - following the continued magic is not physics law, the spell if very specific about impacting against a solid rather than liquid. This opens back up to barrels and pitchers full of some liquid that could be acid or flamable oil, to hurling object underwater.
DM HAT: Personally, for the above two, I would rule that you 1st need to have a good idea bout the existence and presence of the object to get past #1. For number 2, I would simply say that the hurled object passes through gasses and liquids as if they don't exist. Which would mean the barrel or pitcher would fly 90' and the liquid would be left to splash down where it is. That itself could be cheesed in ways but I feel like more thought would need to go into it and I like that idea.