A 6th-level Dwarf Battlemaster uses his movement to climb up a wall (Athletics check) where three goblins with bows are standing. The Dwarf makes it to the wall's top (movement expended). The Dwarf wants to use his first attack to grapple one of the Goblins and then use his next attack to Shove/Toss the Goblin off the wall.
Question:
I've read sage advice from JC where he states, "If you take the Attack action and have multiple attacks, you can replace any of them with a grapple/shove."
I was unsure if the Dwarf needed both Attack actions to perform his plan. Or if all that was necessary was for the Dwarf to use the Shove action and shove the Goblin behind him and off the wall?
As HamFrozenSolid says you can simply Shove using one attack as long as you're in the right position to do what you want, grappling isn't required that.
Usually you only want to Grapple then Shove if you want to hold a target prone (as you can't get back up if you have 0 speed, and being grappled reduces your speed to 0, so grapple + shove can effectively "pin" a target). That said, if the goblins aren't close enough to shove off the edge (it's normally only 5 feet) you could grapple in order to move the goblin closer to the edge before shoving.
Alternatively you might throw a goblin, which can be allowed using a Grapple followed by an improvised weapon attack if the grappler is strong enough to reasonably lift and throw a goblin.
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Presuming the goblins are on the edge of the wall and you climb right next to one of them, shoving alone may be possible to push it away from you diagonally so that it falls.
In order to move a goblin off the wall with a grapple, you'd need to move and drag or carry it with you in a manner that takes him off the edge and release the grapple at this moment. So you couldn't do this with no movement left.
Presuming the goblins are on the edge of the wall and you climb right next to one of them, shoving alone may be possible to push it away from you diagonally so that it falls.
In order to move a goblin off the wall with a grapple, you'd need to move and drag or carry it with you in a manner that takes him off the edge and release the grapple at this moment. So you couldn't do this with no movement left.
Yes, the goblins were on the edge of the wall which would have made a shove possible. I always looked at the Shove direction action as something that is done in front or to the side of the character and not necessarily shoved behind. I see your point about the grapple and movement may not be possible with the dwarf using more than half his movement to climb the wall so he would not be able to grapple and move the goblin over the edge.
How i do push, every space/square moved into must be further away from you, or closer for pull. It's all about increasing or reducing distances between you and your target.
Setup:
A 6th-level Dwarf Battlemaster uses his movement to climb up a wall (Athletics check) where three goblins with bows are standing. The Dwarf makes it to the wall's top (movement expended). The Dwarf wants to use his first attack to grapple one of the Goblins and then use his next attack to Shove/Toss the Goblin off the wall.
Question:
I've read sage advice from JC where he states, "If you take the Attack action and have multiple attacks, you can replace any of them with a grapple/shove."
I was unsure if the Dwarf needed both Attack actions to perform his plan. Or if all that was necessary was for the Dwarf to use the Shove action and shove the Goblin behind him and off the wall?
You do not need to grapple something in order to shove it.
As HamFrozenSolid says you can simply Shove using one attack as long as you're in the right position to do what you want, grappling isn't required that.
Usually you only want to Grapple then Shove if you want to hold a target prone (as you can't get back up if you have 0 speed, and being grappled reduces your speed to 0, so grapple + shove can effectively "pin" a target). That said, if the goblins aren't close enough to shove off the edge (it's normally only 5 feet) you could grapple in order to move the goblin closer to the edge before shoving.
Alternatively you might throw a goblin, which can be allowed using a Grapple followed by an improvised weapon attack if the grappler is strong enough to reasonably lift and throw a goblin.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Presuming the goblins are on the edge of the wall and you climb right next to one of them, shoving alone may be possible to push it away from you diagonally so that it falls.
In order to move a goblin off the wall with a grapple, you'd need to move and drag or carry it with you in a manner that takes him off the edge and release the grapple at this moment. So you couldn't do this with no movement left.
Thanks, everyone! I feel like I had not ruled it wrong at the time, but I thought there may have been fewer steps than what I had the dwarf take.
Yes, the goblins were on the edge of the wall which would have made a shove possible. I always looked at the Shove direction action as something that is done in front or to the side of the character and not necessarily shoved behind. I see your point about the grapple and movement may not be possible with the dwarf using more than half his movement to climb the wall so he would not be able to grapple and move the goblin over the edge.
How i do push, every space/square moved into must be further away from you, or closer for pull. It's all about increasing or reducing distances between you and your target.