I am sure this has been asked a million times, but I just want to clarify as a returning DM (played 30 years ago).
I am a little confused on Skill checks/ability checks.
Do they Stack?
Example-
DM knows some goblins are hiding in the trees. He should ask the players to Roll a Wisdom (hang on ) check to see if the player spots them.
If the Wisdom bonus is +2...and the players Perception is +3, does the player get a +5 in total? Or should the DM say 'roll a perception check' really and its just the perception bonus of +3?
All skill checks are just ability checks with a relevant skill. As for the specific numbers, it depends on where you're getting your numbers from, if the ability is already included in the +3, the final bonus is +3, if it isn't, the bonus is +5. If you're reading from the DNDBeyond character sheet, the ability bonus is already included.
The DM should call for a roll against a given ability and let you know what proficiencies might be relevant, you then roll, add your ability modifier and, if relevant, your proficiency bonus. Your proficiency bonus is a static number that applies for all of your skills, though in some cases you will add double or half of your proficiency bonus instead.
All skill checks are just ability checks with a relevant skill. As for the specific numbers, it depends on where you're getting your numbers from, if the ability is already included in the +3, the final bonus is +3, if it isn't, the bonus is +5. If you're reading from the DNDBeyond character sheet, the ability bonus is already included.
The DM should call for a roll against a given ability and let you know what proficiencies might be relevant, you then roll, add your ability modifier and, if relevant, your proficiency bonus. Your proficiency bonus is a static number that applies for all of your skills, though in some cases you will add double or half of your proficiency bonus instead.
Sorry I wasnt clear in my post. My example of +2 and +3 were presuming those were the bonus's for Wisdom and Perception for that character.
Im reading from a pre made char from the Starter Set (Phandelver)
Example The Cleric has Perception of +3. If he rolls to spot the Goblin, does he get just +3?
He also has Wisdom 16 (+3). Does he get +6 in total or do I undertand you correctly in that The Perception has the Wisom bonus added in already, so its just +3?.
I think what I am trying to say, is does the player only recieve 1 bonus.
As in if the DM says Roll a Wisdom Check, he only get+3 (For Wisdom Bonus).
If the DM says Roll a Perception check, he only gets +3 (for perception bonus)
You never add Widsom and the Perception bonus together for +6?
Theres a little passage in the rules that says something like 'if the DM says roll Wisdom, a player can ask to roll on a skill instead I think?
Sorry for the confusion, so much to take in early on. Help is much appreciated, thank you.
To elaborate on the "double or half" part above, that is based on class features: Expertise or certain feats that emulate the effect are the sources of double proficiency, and the Bard's Jack of All Trades ability is the source of half on skills they are not proficient in. It's not something the DM is expected to make a call on.
As Lunali mentioned ... skill checks ARE just ability checks.
The only difference is whether you are proficient in the skill or not. If you are proficient in a skill (determined when the character is created based on the skills received as part of their race/class/background) then you ADD your proficiency bonus to any ability check using that skill.
An ability check adds the modifier for the related ability to the die roll.
A strength check adds the strength modifier. A character with 14 strength would add +2.
Let's say the DM wanted the characters to make an Athletics (Strength) check to see if they could open a door. A character with the Athletics skill adds their proficiency bonus AND their stat modifier to the roll. A character without the Athletics skill treats it identically to a plain strength check and just adds their stat modifier. As an example, a level 1 character with 14 strength who is not proficient in athletics would add +2 to their die roll on the ability check. A level 1 character with proficiency in Athletics and 12 strength would add +2 (proficiency bonus for a level 1 character) plus the strength stat bonus of +1 for a total of +3 on the die roll.
The same is true for perception. In your example, a level 5 character proficient in Perception would add +3 proficiency bonus for a level 5 character plus their wisdom modifier, a 14 wisdom adds +2, so their total perception (wisdom) check modifier would be +5.
However, when you are resolving hidden creature interactions, usually the hidden creature would make a stealth check and that would be compared to the passive perception score of the other creatures. This tells you how well the creatures are hidden.
As Lunali mentioned ... skill checks ARE just ability checks.
The only difference is whether you are proficient in the skill or not. If you are proficient in a skill (determined when the character is created based on the skills received as part of their race/class/background) then you ADD your proficiency bonus to any ability check using that skill.
An ability check adds the modifier for the related ability to the die roll.
A strength check adds the strength modifier. A character with 14 strength would add +2.
Let's say the DM wanted the characters to make an Athletics (Strength) check to see if they could open a door. A character with the Athletics skill adds their proficiency bonus AND their stat modifier to the roll. A character without the Athletics skill treats it identically to a plain strength check and just adds their stat modifier. As an example, a level 1 character with 14 strength who is not proficient in athletics would add +2 to their die roll on the ability check. A level 1 character with proficiency in Athletics and 12 strength would add +2 (proficiency bonus for a level 1 character) plus the strength stat bonus of +1 for a total of +3 on the die roll.
The same is true for perception. In your example, a level 5 character proficient in Perception would add +3 proficiency bonus for a level 5 character plus their wisdom modifier, a 14 wisdom adds +2, so their total perception (wisdom) check modifier would be +5.
However, when you are resolving hidden creature interactions, usually the hidden creature would make a stealth check and that would be compared to the passive perception score of the other creatures. This tells you how well the creatures are hidden.
I think I am getting myself more confused hehe.
On the Premade Char sheet for the Cleric in the Phandelver Box, the Cleric (Level 1) has a +3 for Perception (and Wisdom+3). Why would he only get a (to quote you)- +2 (proficiency bonus for a level 1 character) ?
His perception is +3?
So sorry for all the questions and again....thank you for the help to this new DM.
On the Premade Char sheet for the Cleric in the Phandelver Box, the Cleric (Level 1) has a +3 for Perception (and Wisdom+3). Why would he only get a (to quote you)- +2 (proficiency bonus for a level 1 character) ?
His perception is +3?
So sorry for all the questions and again....thank you for the help to this new DM.
The premade character does not have proficiency in perception, they have a wisdom bonus of +3, their total bonus for a wisdom(perception) check is +3. The premade wizard has a wisdom bonus of +1 and has proficiency in perception, their total bonus for a wisdom(perception) check is also +3.
On the Premade Char sheet for the Cleric in the Phandelver Box, the Cleric (Level 1) has a +3 for Perception (and Wisdom+3). Why would he only get a (to quote you)- +2 (proficiency bonus for a level 1 character) ?
His perception is +3?
So sorry for all the questions and again....thank you for the help to this new DM.
The premade character does not have proficiency in perception, they have a wisdom bonus of +3, their total bonus for a wisdom(perception) check is +3. The premade wizard has a wisdom bonus of +1 and has proficiency in perception, their total bonus for a wisdom(perception) check is also +3.
Ok...I havnt seen this (or missed it in the book so far) but I think this is related to the Skills with the full black circle next to them(as opposed to the empty circles) (presume those are the skills with proficiency?)
Is the book a little confusing in this or am I just a bit daft (its a lot to take in).
Do the Skills that you are NOT proficient in(full black circles) just = the standard Ability bonus?
I was trying to work it out as I hit the proficiency section, but that dosnt mention the full black circles.
Yes, solid black circle means you have proficiency in it. So the listed values for ones with empty circles are just the bonus from the ability that it has listed for that skill. If you look at the rogue sheet, you'll also see a solid circle with another circle around it that means expertise or double proficiency.
While the numbers listed for each skill are very useful as they're the ones you will use most of the time, you should be aware that skills are not tied to abilities. You can have a strength(intimidation) check for example or constitution(athletics), in those cases you'll have to calculate the bonus yourself.
Yes, solid black circle means you have proficiency in it. So the listed values for ones with empty circles are just the bonus from the ability that it has listed for that skill. If you look at the rogue sheet, you'll also see a solid circle with another circle around it that means expertise or double proficiency.
While the numbers listed for each skill are very useful as they're the ones you will use most of the time, you should be aware that skills are not tied to abilities. You can have a strength(intimidation) check for example or constitution(athletics), in those cases you'll have to calculate the bonus yourself.
Got it..thanks.
Was completely confused, though all the skills were the 'proficiencies'. I honestly dont think the book has mentioned the Full Black Circles being the Skills you are proficient in (might have but I missed it).
Yes, solid black circle means you have proficiency in it. So the listed values for ones with empty circles are just the bonus from the ability that it has listed for that skill. If you look at the rogue sheet, you'll also see a solid circle with another circle around it that means expertise or double proficiency.
While the numbers listed for each skill are very useful as they're the ones you will use most of the time, you should be aware that skills are not tied to abilities. You can have a strength(intimidation) check for example or constitution(athletics), in those cases you'll have to calculate the bonus yourself.
Got it..thanks.
Was completely confused, though all the skills were the 'proficiencies'. I honestly dont think the book has mentioned the Full Black Circles being the Skills you are proficient in (might have but I missed it).
Pg5
"PROFICIENCY BONUS You might be particularly skilled at a certain kind of task related to an ability check. The character sheets list each character's proficiencies with skills and special tools, and the monster statistics in the adventure book show monsters' proficiencies. If you have proficiency in a skill, such as Acrobatics or Deception (explained below), you add your proficiency bonus to ability checks you make that use that skill. If you have proficiency with a certain tool, such as thieves' tools or mason's tools, you add your proficiency bonus to ability checks you make using those tools. You never add your proficiency bonus more than once to the same d20 roll."
"SKILLS Each ability covers a broad range of capabilities, including skills that a character can be proficient in. A skill represents a specific aspect of an ability score, and a character's proficiency in a skill demonstrates a focus on that aspect. A Dexterity check might, for example, reflect a character's attempt to pull off an acrobatic stunt, to palm an object, or to stay hidden. Each of these aspects of Dexterity has an associated s kill: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth, respectively. So a character who has proficiency in the Stealth skill is pa rticula rly good at Dexterity checks related to sneaking and hiding.
Sometimes, the DM might ask for an ability check using a specific skill- for example, "Make a Wisdom (Perception) check." At other times, a player might ask the DM if proficiency in a particular skill applies to a check. In either case, proficiency in a skill means a character can add his or her proficiency bonus to ability checks that use that skill. Without proficiency in the skill, the character makes a normal ability check. For example, if a character attempts to climb up a dangerous cliff, the Dungeon Master might ask for a Strength (Athletics) check. If the character is proficient in Athletics, the character's proficiency bonus is added to the Strength check. If the character lacks that proficiency, he or she just makes a Strength check."
And - it isn't obvious where they tell you what the filled in circle means. In the section on leveling up to level 5 on the second page of the pre-gen characters:
"Your modifier for saving throws and skills you’re proficient in (indicated by a [filled o]) increases by 1."
Yes, solid black circle means you have proficiency in it. So the listed values for ones with empty circles are just the bonus from the ability that it has listed for that skill. If you look at the rogue sheet, you'll also see a solid circle with another circle around it that means expertise or double proficiency.
While the numbers listed for each skill are very useful as they're the ones you will use most of the time, you should be aware that skills are not tied to abilities. You can have a strength(intimidation) check for example or constitution(athletics), in those cases you'll have to calculate the bonus yourself.
Got it..thanks.
Was completely confused, though all the skills were the 'proficiencies'. I honestly dont think the book has mentioned the Full Black Circles being the Skills you are proficient in (might have but I missed it).
Pg5
"PROFICIENCY BONUS You might be particularly skilled at a certain kind of task related to an ability check. The character sheets list each character's proficiencies with skills and special tools, and the monster statistics in the adventure book show monsters' proficiencies. If you have proficiency in a skill, such as Acrobatics or Deception (explained below), you add your proficiency bonus to ability checks you make that use that skill. If you have proficiency with a certain tool, such as thieves' tools or mason's tools, you add your proficiency bonus to ability checks you make using those tools. You never add your proficiency bonus more than once to the same d20 roll."
"SKILLS Each ability covers a broad range of capabilities, including skills that a character can be proficient in. A skill represents a specific aspect of an ability score, and a character's proficiency in a skill demonstrates a focus on that aspect. A Dexterity check might, for example, reflect a character's attempt to pull off an acrobatic stunt, to palm an object, or to stay hidden. Each of these aspects of Dexterity has an associated s kill: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth, respectively. So a character who has proficiency in the Stealth skill is pa rticula rly good at Dexterity checks related to sneaking and hiding.
Sometimes, the DM might ask for an ability check using a specific skill- for example, "Make a Wisdom (Perception) check." At other times, a player might ask the DM if proficiency in a particular skill applies to a check. In either case, proficiency in a skill means a character can add his or her proficiency bonus to ability checks that use that skill. Without proficiency in the skill, the character makes a normal ability check. For example, if a character attempts to climb up a dangerous cliff, the Dungeon Master might ask for a Strength (Athletics) check. If the character is proficient in Athletics, the character's proficiency bonus is added to the Strength check. If the character lacks that proficiency, he or she just makes a Strength check."
And - it isn't obvious where they tell you what the filled in circle means. In the section on leveling up to level 5 on the second page of the pre-gen characters:
"Your modifier for saving throws and skills you’re proficient in (indicated by a [filled o]) increases by 1."
Yup..thanks. I was going round in circles with the presumption of the Skills being the Proficiencies of varying degree, without it noting so far that they were the full black circles. I knoda understood what people were telling me here, but it didnt click with the black circles.
One note, you mention- In the section on leveling up to level 5 on the second page of the pre-gen characters: - I cant see a section on the pre made characters anywhere? EDIT- Sorry I see it, on the back of the character sheets themselves. I was looking in the book. Thanks again.
I know this is an old discussion, but it popped up near the top of a Google search, so I just wanted to say thank you for the explanations. Like the original poster, I was confused about how much bonus to add. This discussion cleared it all up!
on skill/ability checks you'll always apply the appropriate stat modifier (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma) and then apply their Proficiency Bonus if they have chosen to be "proficient" in that skill. Note, you'll apply double their Proficiency Bonus if they are "expertise" in that skill.
note: Proficiency Bonus changes based upon the level of the character. At levels 1-4, Proficiency Bonus is +2; levels 5-7, Proficiency Bonus is +3, etc... (see PHB '14 page 15)
so you can math skills as such: Skill/Ability modifier= Stat modifier + Proficiency Bonus (if proficient)
in your example, if the character has WIS modifier of +2 and has proficiency in Perception (and is level 5-7: Prof Bonus = +3) then d20 roll for Perception would add +5. however, if the character is not proficient in Perception, then omit the Proficiency Bonus and simply apply the Wisdom modifier +2.
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I am sure this has been asked a million times, but I just want to clarify as a returning DM (played 30 years ago).
I am a little confused on Skill checks/ability checks.
Do they Stack?
Example-
DM knows some goblins are hiding in the trees. He should ask the players to Roll a Wisdom (hang on ) check to see if the player spots them.
If the Wisdom bonus is +2...and the players Perception is +3, does the player get a +5 in total? Or should the DM say 'roll a perception check' really and its just the perception bonus of +3?
Thanks
All skill checks are just ability checks with a relevant skill. As for the specific numbers, it depends on where you're getting your numbers from, if the ability is already included in the +3, the final bonus is +3, if it isn't, the bonus is +5. If you're reading from the DNDBeyond character sheet, the ability bonus is already included.
The DM should call for a roll against a given ability and let you know what proficiencies might be relevant, you then roll, add your ability modifier and, if relevant, your proficiency bonus. Your proficiency bonus is a static number that applies for all of your skills, though in some cases you will add double or half of your proficiency bonus instead.
Sorry I wasnt clear in my post. My example of +2 and +3 were presuming those were the bonus's for Wisdom and Perception for that character.
Im reading from a pre made char from the Starter Set (Phandelver)
Example The Cleric has Perception of +3. If he rolls to spot the Goblin, does he get just +3?
He also has Wisdom 16 (+3). Does he get +6 in total or do I undertand you correctly in that The Perception has the Wisom bonus added in already, so its just +3?.
I think what I am trying to say, is does the player only recieve 1 bonus.
As in if the DM says Roll a Wisdom Check, he only get+3 (For Wisdom Bonus).
If the DM says Roll a Perception check, he only gets +3 (for perception bonus)
You never add Widsom and the Perception bonus together for +6?
Theres a little passage in the rules that says something like 'if the DM says roll Wisdom, a player can ask to roll on a skill instead I think?
Sorry for the confusion, so much to take in early on. Help is much appreciated, thank you.
To elaborate on the "double or half" part above, that is based on class features: Expertise or certain feats that emulate the effect are the sources of double proficiency, and the Bard's Jack of All Trades ability is the source of half on skills they are not proficient in. It's not something the DM is expected to make a call on.
As Lunali mentioned ... skill checks ARE just ability checks.
The only difference is whether you are proficient in the skill or not. If you are proficient in a skill (determined when the character is created based on the skills received as part of their race/class/background) then you ADD your proficiency bonus to any ability check using that skill.
An ability check adds the modifier for the related ability to the die roll.
A strength check adds the strength modifier. A character with 14 strength would add +2.
Let's say the DM wanted the characters to make an Athletics (Strength) check to see if they could open a door. A character with the Athletics skill adds their proficiency bonus AND their stat modifier to the roll. A character without the Athletics skill treats it identically to a plain strength check and just adds their stat modifier. As an example, a level 1 character with 14 strength who is not proficient in athletics would add +2 to their die roll on the ability check. A level 1 character with proficiency in Athletics and 12 strength would add +2 (proficiency bonus for a level 1 character) plus the strength stat bonus of +1 for a total of +3 on the die roll.
The same is true for perception. In your example, a level 5 character proficient in Perception would add +3 proficiency bonus for a level 5 character plus their wisdom modifier, a 14 wisdom adds +2, so their total perception (wisdom) check modifier would be +5.
However, when you are resolving hidden creature interactions, usually the hidden creature would make a stealth check and that would be compared to the passive perception score of the other creatures. This tells you how well the creatures are hidden.
I think I am getting myself more confused hehe.
On the Premade Char sheet for the Cleric in the Phandelver Box, the Cleric (Level 1) has a +3 for Perception (and Wisdom+3). Why would he only get a (to quote you)- +2 (proficiency bonus for a level 1 character) ?
His perception is +3?
So sorry for all the questions and again....thank you for the help to this new DM.
The premade character does not have proficiency in perception, they have a wisdom bonus of +3, their total bonus for a wisdom(perception) check is +3. The premade wizard has a wisdom bonus of +1 and has proficiency in perception, their total bonus for a wisdom(perception) check is also +3.
Ok...I havnt seen this (or missed it in the book so far) but I think this is related to the Skills with the full black circle next to them(as opposed to the empty circles) (presume those are the skills with proficiency?)
Is the book a little confusing in this or am I just a bit daft (its a lot to take in).
Do the Skills that you are NOT proficient in(full black circles) just = the standard Ability bonus?
I was trying to work it out as I hit the proficiency section, but that dosnt mention the full black circles.
Yes, solid black circle means you have proficiency in it. So the listed values for ones with empty circles are just the bonus from the ability that it has listed for that skill. If you look at the rogue sheet, you'll also see a solid circle with another circle around it that means expertise or double proficiency.
While the numbers listed for each skill are very useful as they're the ones you will use most of the time, you should be aware that skills are not tied to abilities. You can have a strength(intimidation) check for example or constitution(athletics), in those cases you'll have to calculate the bonus yourself.
Got it..thanks.
Was completely confused, though all the skills were the 'proficiencies'. I honestly dont think the book has mentioned the Full Black Circles being the Skills you are proficient in (might have but I missed it).
Pg5
"PROFICIENCY BONUS
You might be particularly skilled at a certain kind of task related to an ability check. The character sheets list each character's proficiencies with skills and special tools, and the monster statistics in the adventure book show monsters' proficiencies. If you have proficiency in a skill, such as Acrobatics or Deception (explained below), you add your proficiency bonus to ability checks you make that use that skill. If you have proficiency with a certain tool, such as thieves' tools or mason's tools, you add your proficiency bonus to ability checks you make using those tools. You never add your proficiency bonus more than once to the same d20 roll."
"SKILLS
Each ability covers a broad range of capabilities, including skills that a character can be proficient in. A skill represents a specific aspect of an ability score, and a character's proficiency in a skill demonstrates a focus on that aspect. A Dexterity check might, for example, reflect a character's attempt to pull off an acrobatic stunt, to palm an object, or to stay hidden. Each of these aspects of Dexterity has an associated s kill: Acrobatics, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth, respectively. So a character who has proficiency in the Stealth skill is pa rticula rly good at Dexterity checks related to sneaking and hiding.
Sometimes, the DM might ask for an ability check using a specific skill- for example, "Make a Wisdom (Perception) check." At other times, a player might ask the DM if proficiency in a particular skill applies to a check. In either case, proficiency in a skill means a character can add his or her proficiency bonus to ability checks that use that skill. Without proficiency in the skill, the character makes a normal ability check. For example, if a character attempts to climb up a dangerous cliff, the Dungeon Master might ask for a Strength (Athletics) check. If the character is proficient in Athletics, the character's proficiency bonus is added to the Strength check. If the character lacks that proficiency, he or she just makes a Strength check."
And - it isn't obvious where they tell you what the filled in circle means. In the section on leveling up to level 5 on the second page of the pre-gen characters:
"Your modifier for saving throws and skills you’re proficient in (indicated by a [filled o]) increases by 1."
Yup..thanks. I was going round in circles with the presumption of the Skills being the Proficiencies of varying degree, without it noting so far that they were the full black circles. I knoda understood what people were telling me here, but it didnt click with the black circles.
One note, you mention- In the section on leveling up to level 5 on the second page of the pre-gen characters: - I cant see a section on the pre made characters anywhere? EDIT- Sorry I see it, on the back of the character sheets themselves. I was looking in the book. Thanks again.
I know this is an old discussion, but it popped up near the top of a Google search, so I just wanted to say thank you for the explanations. Like the original poster, I was confused about how much bonus to add. This discussion cleared it all up!
on skill/ability checks you'll always apply the appropriate stat modifier (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Wisdom, Intelligence, or Charisma) and then apply their Proficiency Bonus if they have chosen to be "proficient" in that skill. Note, you'll apply double their Proficiency Bonus if they are "expertise" in that skill.
note: Proficiency Bonus changes based upon the level of the character. At levels 1-4, Proficiency Bonus is +2; levels 5-7, Proficiency Bonus is +3, etc... (see PHB '14 page 15)
so you can math skills as such: Skill/Ability modifier= Stat modifier + Proficiency Bonus (if proficient)
in your example, if the character has WIS modifier of +2 and has proficiency in Perception (and is level 5-7: Prof Bonus = +3) then d20 roll for Perception would add +5. however, if the character is not proficient in Perception, then omit the Proficiency Bonus and simply apply the Wisdom modifier +2.