we are a group of people which are all new to dnd, including the one who's playing for dungeon master. and sometimes we get into some situations where we are not sure what to roll for and how to proceed.
for example, im standing on top of a ledge and a goblin walks by. now i want to jump off the ledge (10ft. high) and land a dropkick on the goblin, in my opinion this is an athletics or acrobatics check to see if i succeed in the action and if i do i should roll for an unarmed strike?
my dm on the othe hand said i needed an athletics check to see if i could make the jump, then an acrobatics check to see if i would land on the goblin and then a attack roll to see if i would do any damage to the goblin. in the end i succeeded on the first two but failed the last and fell on top of the goblin without it taking any damage (i took 1d6 dmg for the fall).
so what would have been the right approach in such a situation?
If a creature falls into the space of a second creature and neither of them is Tiny, the second creature must succeed on a DC 15 Dexterity saving throw or be impacted by the falling creature, and any damage resulting from the fall is divided evenly between them. The impacted creature is also knocked prone, unless it is two or more sizes larger than the falling creature.
With Falling damage delivering 1d6 per 10ft, I would have simply say that you use your move to go out and fall. If the Goblins fails a DC 15 dexterity save then it takes half of that 1D6 damage. So if you roll 4 on the dice then you each take two hits and BOTH fall prone. You can then use half your move to stand up (if you have half remaining) and make a regular unarmed attack for the drop-kick at advantage (since the Goblin is prone).
1. Goblin rolls dexterity save to beat 15 and avoid you 2. Roll 1d6 damage and split it between you and the goblin if it failed the save 3. Roll unarmed attack at advantage to kick the Goblin while it's down. Or just smack it with whatever melee weapon you have.
There are some homebrew rules out there that suggest using an athletics or acrobatic roll to avoid fall damage, the idea being that whatever you roll you can reduce the fall damage by.
NOTE: I believe that you can technically still make the unarmed attack (drop kick) mid fall as you're coming down on the goblin however you're better to see if falling on the goblin knocks it prone so you can stand up and attack with advantage instead.
Your DM should keep in mind that mathematically whenever you call for multiple checks in a row the probability for succeeding on the overall task is greatly reduced. When possible, it would be better to simply adjust the DC of a single check or to call for the check with advantage or disadvantage if you want to influence the probability for success to match up with the game situation.
Here, you are jumping off of a 10-foot high structure and attempting to dropkick a goblin who is walking on ground level.
To make a long story short, this is just an attack roll and possibly some fall damage. You do not need the Athletics or Acrobatics checks. Mathematically, the attack roll is enough to determine your success or failure on whether or not you can effectively execute this attack.
More detail:
First scenario -- the Goblin sees you the whole time and prepares to defend himself.
You jump down into the square next to the goblin, which puts that goblin within your melee range while you are still in the air next to the goblin. This might cost some movement. From Chapter 8, jumping is a special type of movement -- it is not generally its own Action.
At this moment, you attempt an unarmed strike. Because of the difficulty of this maneuver compared to a typical unarmed strike while standing next to an enemy in melee, I might impose disadvantage on this unarmed strike attempt.
On a miss, I would rule that this descent becomes a fall and you would take the 1d6 fall damage and become prone.
On a hit, this contact with the goblin might slow your decent by just enough to avoid fall damage. On the other hand, it might make things worse (the same) for you. Although you will technically end up in the space next to the goblin, I might use this rule from the Jumping section in Chapter 8:
When you land in difficult terrain, you must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to land on your feet. Otherwise, you land prone.
and we would rule that failing this check also causes fall damage. If the situation is perceived in a slightly different way, we might instead call for a DC 10 Dexterity Saving throw with the same results on success and failure.
Second Scenario -- the Goblin doesn't see you coming.
There are two ways to rule that. The first way is that perhaps the situation is such that the Goblin just won't see you and you gain the benefit of being an Unseen Attacker.
The second (and third) way to rule this is that the DM might require you to attempt to Hide first (and he may prompt you to do this or he may just respond if you actively ask to do this). Hiding involves a Contest by making a Dexterity (Stealth) check and that is compared against the Goblin's Passive Perception score. If successful, the DM might rule that you are attacking from a Hidden position and you remain quiet enough to gain the benefit of being an Unseen Attacker.
If you successfully attack from a Hidden position and this action is causing both sides to roll initiative to begin combat -- then there is the possibility that the DM will rule that you also gain the benefits of Surprise (when combat begins) in addition to the benefit of being an Unseen Attacker (on your turn).
Attacking as an Unseen Attacker gives you advantage on your attack roll. If it was also ruled that your maneuver was difficult to attempt and therefore gave you disadvantage on your attack roll -- this advantage and disadvantage would cancel out and you would make a normal attack roll.
At this point, the results of a miss or a hit would be ruled in the same way as in the first scenario above.
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we are a group of people which are all new to dnd, including the one who's playing for dungeon master. and sometimes we get into some situations where we are not sure what to roll for and how to proceed.
for example, im standing on top of a ledge and a goblin walks by. now i want to jump off the ledge (10ft. high) and land a dropkick on the goblin, in my opinion this is an athletics or acrobatics check to see if i succeed in the action and if i do i should roll for an unarmed strike?
my dm on the othe hand said i needed an athletics check to see if i could make the jump, then an acrobatics check to see if i would land on the goblin and then a attack roll to see if i would do any damage to the goblin. in the end i succeeded on the first two but failed the last and fell on top of the goblin without it taking any damage (i took 1d6 dmg for the fall).
so what would have been the right approach in such a situation?
Source.
With Falling damage delivering 1d6 per 10ft, I would have simply say that you use your move to go out and fall. If the Goblins fails a DC 15 dexterity save then it takes half of that 1D6 damage. So if you roll 4 on the dice then you each take two hits and BOTH fall prone. You can then use half your move to stand up (if you have half remaining) and make a regular unarmed attack for the drop-kick at advantage (since the Goblin is prone).
1. Goblin rolls dexterity save to beat 15 and avoid you
2. Roll 1d6 damage and split it between you and the goblin if it failed the save
3. Roll unarmed attack at advantage to kick the Goblin while it's down. Or just smack it with whatever melee weapon you have.
There are some homebrew rules out there that suggest using an athletics or acrobatic roll to avoid fall damage, the idea being that whatever you roll you can reduce the fall damage by.
NOTE: I believe that you can technically still make the unarmed attack (drop kick) mid fall as you're coming down on the goblin however you're better to see if falling on the goblin knocks it prone so you can stand up and attack with advantage instead.
Your DM should keep in mind that mathematically whenever you call for multiple checks in a row the probability for succeeding on the overall task is greatly reduced. When possible, it would be better to simply adjust the DC of a single check or to call for the check with advantage or disadvantage if you want to influence the probability for success to match up with the game situation.
Here, you are jumping off of a 10-foot high structure and attempting to dropkick a goblin who is walking on ground level.
To make a long story short, this is just an attack roll and possibly some fall damage. You do not need the Athletics or Acrobatics checks. Mathematically, the attack roll is enough to determine your success or failure on whether or not you can effectively execute this attack.
More detail:
First scenario -- the Goblin sees you the whole time and prepares to defend himself.
You jump down into the square next to the goblin, which puts that goblin within your melee range while you are still in the air next to the goblin. This might cost some movement. From Chapter 8, jumping is a special type of movement -- it is not generally its own Action.
At this moment, you attempt an unarmed strike. Because of the difficulty of this maneuver compared to a typical unarmed strike while standing next to an enemy in melee, I might impose disadvantage on this unarmed strike attempt.
On a miss, I would rule that this descent becomes a fall and you would take the 1d6 fall damage and become prone.
On a hit, this contact with the goblin might slow your decent by just enough to avoid fall damage. On the other hand, it might make things worse (the same) for you. Although you will technically end up in the space next to the goblin, I might use this rule from the Jumping section in Chapter 8:
and we would rule that failing this check also causes fall damage. If the situation is perceived in a slightly different way, we might instead call for a DC 10 Dexterity Saving throw with the same results on success and failure.
Second Scenario -- the Goblin doesn't see you coming.
There are two ways to rule that. The first way is that perhaps the situation is such that the Goblin just won't see you and you gain the benefit of being an Unseen Attacker.
The second (and third) way to rule this is that the DM might require you to attempt to Hide first (and he may prompt you to do this or he may just respond if you actively ask to do this). Hiding involves a Contest by making a Dexterity (Stealth) check and that is compared against the Goblin's Passive Perception score. If successful, the DM might rule that you are attacking from a Hidden position and you remain quiet enough to gain the benefit of being an Unseen Attacker.
If you successfully attack from a Hidden position and this action is causing both sides to roll initiative to begin combat -- then there is the possibility that the DM will rule that you also gain the benefits of Surprise (when combat begins) in addition to the benefit of being an Unseen Attacker (on your turn).
Attacking as an Unseen Attacker gives you advantage on your attack roll. If it was also ruled that your maneuver was difficult to attempt and therefore gave you disadvantage on your attack roll -- this advantage and disadvantage would cancel out and you would make a normal attack roll.
At this point, the results of a miss or a hit would be ruled in the same way as in the first scenario above.