RAW is undefined, but toggling like this seems to be strongly against RAI, particularly since I believe the Beyond sheet will simply default to the best AC value for your equipped gear and features.
RAW is undefined, but toggling like this seems to be strongly against RAI, particularly since I believe the Beyond sheet will simply default to the best AC value for your equipped gear and features.
The beyond sheet allows you to pick other AC calculations too though. Just because it default to the highest, which is what most people will do in 99.99999% of situations, doesn't mean you HAVE to pick the highest.
The rule has been quoted. You pick between them whichever AC you want if you have more than one.
Obviously most people most time will pick the highest.
... but you don't have to.
"Player's Handbook: Some spells and class features give you a different way to calculate your AC. If you have multiple features that give you different ways to calculate your AC, you choose which one to use."
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
RAW is undefined, but toggling like this seems to be strongly against RAI, particularly since I believe the Beyond sheet will simply default to the best AC value for your equipped gear and features.
The beyond sheet allows you to pick other AC calculations too though. Just because it default to the highest, which is what most people will do in 99.99999% of situations, doesn't mean you HAVE to pick the highest.
The rule has been quoted. You pick between them whichever AC you want if you have more than one.
Obviously most people most time will pick the highest.
... but you don't have to.
My point is not that one can never choose to change them, just that there’s no indication one should be able to toggle AC from equipment or features mid-combat like this. The exact RAW is undefined, but nothing I can see suggests it is RAI to be able to alternate moment-to-moment.
RAW is undefined, but toggling like this seems to be strongly against RAI, particularly since I believe the Beyond sheet will simply default to the best AC value for your equipped gear and features.
The beyond sheet allows you to pick other AC calculations too though. Just because it default to the highest, which is what most people will do in 99.99999% of situations, doesn't mean you HAVE to pick the highest.
The rule has been quoted. You pick between them whichever AC you want if you have more than one.
Obviously most people most time will pick the highest.
... but you don't have to.
My point is not that one can never choose to change them, just that there’s no indication one should be able to toggle AC from equipment or features mid-combat like this. The exact RAW is undefined, but nothing I can see suggests it is RAI to be able to alternate moment-to-moment.
The RAW is defined. I just requoted it for your benefit.
You CHOOSE which AC to use.
So they get to choose.
Very straightforward.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
RAW is undefined, but toggling like this seems to be strongly against RAI, particularly since I believe the Beyond sheet will simply default to the best AC value for your equipped gear and features.
The beyond sheet allows you to pick other AC calculations too though. Just because it default to the highest, which is what most people will do in 99.99999% of situations, doesn't mean you HAVE to pick the highest.
The rule has been quoted. You pick between them whichever AC you want if you have more than one.
Obviously most people most time will pick the highest.
... but you don't have to.
My point is not that one can never choose to change them, just that there’s no indication one should be able to toggle AC from equipment or features mid-combat like this. The exact RAW is undefined, but nothing I can see suggests it is RAI to be able to alternate moment-to-moment.
The RAW is defined. I just requoted it for your benefit.
You CHOOSE which AC to use.
So they get to choose.
Very straightforward.
your point is well taken "The question "When is your AC calculated" is the wrong question."
but you miss a key question here that you did not ask or answer "You wanna know if you can swap between them. And the answer is: Yes. The rules says you get to pick which one you ise if you have more than one."
the right question is when can i swap between them?
theres nothing explicit that says when i can swap between my AC calculation. its implicit that i can, just not explicit as to when RAW. at least thats my whole take away and with every comment here seems to be the agreement?
RAW is undefined, but toggling like this seems to be strongly against RAI, particularly since I believe the Beyond sheet will simply default to the best AC value for your equipped gear and features.
The beyond sheet allows you to pick other AC calculations too though. Just because it default to the highest, which is what most people will do in 99.99999% of situations, doesn't mean you HAVE to pick the highest.
The rule has been quoted. You pick between them whichever AC you want if you have more than one.
Obviously most people most time will pick the highest.
... but you don't have to.
My point is not that one can never choose to change them, just that there’s no indication one should be able to toggle AC from equipment or features mid-combat like this. The exact RAW is undefined, but nothing I can see suggests it is RAI to be able to alternate moment-to-moment.
there is indication that you can choose to change them with no qualifiers thats backed up with the AC calculation. your putting qualifiers that do not exist in the rules so im unsure how you can back up that its RAI or RAW. what specific rule says you cant change it?
the entire "this is not explicit to any specific moment you can change them in gameplay" it literally just says you can choose.
and when a rule is general with no specifics to change it then it exists in its general context.
which would mean unless theres a rule that specifically states what you are expressing, the general is the rule.
thats my reading. from all this. its implicit that you can choose with no qualifiers on the time you get to choose that there are no qualifiers on when you get to choose? adding them is adding rules that are not there?
As DM i make a distinction between choosing a base AC calculation method formula and applying an AC modifier to it.
As Sage Advice specify
These methods—along with any others that give you a formula for calculating your AC—are mutually exclusive; you can benefit from only one at a time. If you have access to more than one, you pick which one to use. .....Once you have your base AC, it can be temporarily modified by situational bonuses and penalties. For instance, having half cover gives you a +2 bonus to your AC, and three-quarters cover gives a +5 bonus. Spells sometimes modify AC as well. Shield of faith, for example, grants a target a +2 bonus to AC until the spell ends.
As DM i make a distinction between choosing a base AC calculation method formula and applying an AC modifier to it.
As Sage Advice specify
These methods—along with any others that give you a formula for calculating your AC—are mutually exclusive; you can benefit from only one at a time. If you have access to more than one, you pick which one to use. .....Once you have your base AC, it can be temporarily modified by situational bonuses and penalties. For instance, having half cover gives you a +2 bonus to your AC, and three-quarters cover gives a +5 bonus. Spells sometimes modify AC as well. Shield of faith, for example, grants a target a +2 bonus to AC until the spell ends.
this explains how you calculate your AC and if you have multiple ways to calculate it then you pick which one you use for the base AC calculation.
so the how is explicit in what your different methods of AC calculations give you for your AC. they are exclusive to one another.
and when you need your Base AC you get to choose one of the methods and only one.
so when do you decide when you need your base AC?
sage advice follows that you need it any time you are being targeted with the making attack action. so that you can add your modifiers.
so it follows that whenever you need to provide your Base AC calculation you get to pick which method you use exclusive of the others.
I never dealt with a situation where a player was insisting to toggle between different base AC calculation methods in combat for the worse. I'd look at the root of the problem and the goal behind it to see if there wasn't a less chaotic approach possible than constantly re-calculating AC. The barbarian example cited earlier, who wants to increase chance of damaging itself to maintain Rage could just use Reckless Attack instead.
I don’t like airbud arguments. There is no rule anywhere that says that any choice you make cannot be changed at any point.
"There is no rule anywhere that says that any choice you make cannot be changed at any point." no there is not, but thats not what i am saying im saying there is a rule that tells you what choices you have when you have to make a choice.
so when it calls for something that you have a choice in you get to make that choice. unless something specifically says you dont have a choice.
AC is a choice when you have a choice of calculations, so any time you are required to provide your base AC you make the choice of how to calculate it unless something specifically says you dont have a choice.
I never dealt with a situation where a player was insisting to toggle between different base AC calculation methods in combat for the worse. I'd look at the root of the problem and the goal behind it to see if there wasn't a less chaotic approach possible than constantly re-calculating AC. The barbarian example cited earlier, who wants to increase chance of damaging itself to maintain Rage could just use Reckless Attack instead.
I can yes for sure and i did, but i wanted to increase my chance of being hit. so i told the DM my AC was lower this turn for these attack that were already at advantage.
because when he took his opportunity attacks i was choosing a different AC calculation per the AC rules.
you never have to and most people never will.
most people dont cast wish but the rules exist regardless to use if you happen to want to use them.
i dont see a problem at all? at least no one has brought up a RAW or RAI reason that there should be a problem with what i intended to do.
the problem came from my group thinking that you cant do that because you dont get to choose your AC calculations. which i pointed out you do you usually just dont bother because you dont have to. like to hit you rarely ever calculate it but technically you have to calculate it for every attack just like AC.
RAW is undefined, but toggling like this seems to be strongly against RAI, particularly since I believe the Beyond sheet will simply default to the best AC value for your equipped gear and features.
The beyond sheet allows you to pick other AC calculations too though. Just because it default to the highest, which is what most people will do in 99.99999% of situations, doesn't mean you HAVE to pick the highest.
The rule has been quoted. You pick between them whichever AC you want if you have more than one.
Obviously most people most time will pick the highest.
... but you don't have to.
My point is not that one can never choose to change them, just that there’s no indication one should be able to toggle AC from equipment or features mid-combat like this. The exact RAW is undefined, but nothing I can see suggests it is RAI to be able to alternate moment-to-moment.
The RAW is defined. I just requoted it for your benefit.
You CHOOSE which AC to use.
So they get to choose.
Very straightforward.
your point is well taken "The question "When is your AC calculated" is the wrong question."
but you miss a key question here that you did not ask or answer "You wanna know if you can swap between them. And the answer is: Yes. The rules says you get to pick which one you ise if you have more than one."
the right question is when can i swap between them?
theres nothing explicit that says when i can swap between my AC calculation. its implicit that i can, just not explicit as to when RAW. at least thats my whole take away and with every comment here seems to be the agreement?
The question doesn't make any sense.
An attack targets you, it is compared against your AC. You have more than one AC. You pick which AC.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I think the rules were written with the asump[tion that characters would want the highest AC they are eligable at any particular time but it does say you can choose. RAW I think you can choose at any point where it is about to be tested (mainly immediately before each attack) but if the DM has to ask you which AC calculation you are using before every attack combat will really be slowed own so I think it is sensible to limit it a certain amount.
A Defender allows you to choose your AC once per turn (though that is of necessity, if you could do it at will you could have +3 to your attacks and then switch to +3 AC before you either end your turn or are about to draw an op attack), but I think having the player choose their characters AC calculation once per turn is reasonable to speed things up even if not strictly RAW.
I don’t like airbud arguments. There is no rule anywhere that says that any choice you make cannot be changed at any point.
You can't go back in time to an already resolved attack and change which AC you chose
Once you pick which AC you're using that it. That's the AC for that attack. Unless a spell/feature says otherwise, like Shield, you can't change that AC. The attack either hits or misses based on what the attack roll was vs the AC you picked to use.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I never dealt with a situation where a player was insisting to toggle between different base AC calculation methods in combat for the worse. I'd look at the root of the problem and the goal behind it to see if there wasn't a less chaotic approach possible than constantly re-calculating AC. The barbarian example cited earlier, who wants to increase chance of damaging itself to maintain Rage could just use Reckless Attack instead.
No he can't. You have to attack for that ability.
But, if he attacked he wouldn't be in this situation would he? He wanted to get injured so that/because his action was something other than attacking.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
An attack targets you, it is compared against your AC. You have more than one AC. You pick which AC.
I agree with you, its implicit in the making an attack. for me, thats how i read it. i think its the correct way and nothing anyone has brought up points to the rules saying otherwise.
but its not explicit in the AC calculations that you have multiple base AC calculations other than the words "you can choose". alot of people seem to think this choice happens at different times based on the comments in this threat.
you and me agree that it happens what the AC is called for in the making an attack action.
alot of people dont think thats the case and im trying to figure out if they have a good reason to think that RAW or RAI
The rules don't offer further insight on when to choose between AC calculation methods whatsoever. A DM can certainly make the ruling that an AC calculation method must be chosen at anytime, or before an attack is made, even at the beginning of a turn, round, combat, minute, hour or even day. Like i said i'd be more concerned of the why then the when in this case.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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RAW is undefined, but toggling like this seems to be strongly against RAI, particularly since I believe the Beyond sheet will simply default to the best AC value for your equipped gear and features.
The beyond sheet allows you to pick other AC calculations too though. Just because it default to the highest, which is what most people will do in 99.99999% of situations, doesn't mean you HAVE to pick the highest.
The rule has been quoted. You pick between them whichever AC you want if you have more than one.
Obviously most people most time will pick the highest.
... but you don't have to.
"Player's Handbook: Some spells and class features give you a different way to calculate your AC. If you have multiple features that give you different ways to calculate your AC, you choose which one to use."
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
My point is not that one can never choose to change them, just that there’s no indication one should be able to toggle AC from equipment or features mid-combat like this. The exact RAW is undefined, but nothing I can see suggests it is RAI to be able to alternate moment-to-moment.
The RAW is defined. I just requoted it for your benefit.
You CHOOSE which AC to use.
So they get to choose.
Very straightforward.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Interesting take. Can I change my mind at any time for any choice that the game gives me?
your point is well taken "The question "When is your AC calculated" is the wrong question."
but you miss a key question here that you did not ask or answer "You wanna know if you can swap between them. And the answer is: Yes. The rules says you get to pick which one you ise if you have more than one."
the right question is when can i swap between them?
theres nothing explicit that says when i can swap between my AC calculation. its implicit that i can, just not explicit as to when RAW. at least thats my whole take away and with every comment here seems to be the agreement?
there is indication that you can choose to change them with no qualifiers thats backed up with the AC calculation. your putting qualifiers that do not exist in the rules so im unsure how you can back up that its RAI or RAW. what specific rule says you cant change it?
the entire "this is not explicit to any specific moment you can change them in gameplay" it literally just says you can choose.
and when a rule is general with no specifics to change it then it exists in its general context.
which would mean unless theres a rule that specifically states what you are expressing, the general is the rule.
thats my reading. from all this. its implicit that you can choose with no qualifiers on the time you get to choose that there are no qualifiers on when you get to choose? adding them is adding rules that are not there?
or am i reading everyones replys incorrectly.
any time it calls for an AC? thats the general rule and nothing specifically says otherwise
so in dnd the only thing that beats general RAW is specific RAW.
unless theres a specific that says you can't the general says you can?
*edited can to can't cause brain does opposites
As DM i make a distinction between choosing a base AC calculation method formula and applying an AC modifier to it.
As Sage Advice specify
I don’t like airbud arguments. There is no rule anywhere that says that any choice you make cannot be changed at any point.
this explains how you calculate your AC and if you have multiple ways to calculate it then you pick which one you use for the base AC calculation.
so the how is explicit in what your different methods of AC calculations give you for your AC. they are exclusive to one another.
and when you need your Base AC you get to choose one of the methods and only one.
so when do you decide when you need your base AC?
sage advice follows that you need it any time you are being targeted with the making attack action. so that you can add your modifiers.
so it follows that whenever you need to provide your Base AC calculation you get to pick which method you use exclusive of the others.
I never dealt with a situation where a player was insisting to toggle between different base AC calculation methods in combat for the worse. I'd look at the root of the problem and the goal behind it to see if there wasn't a less chaotic approach possible than constantly re-calculating AC. The barbarian example cited earlier, who wants to increase chance of damaging itself to maintain Rage could just use Reckless Attack instead.
"There is no rule anywhere that says that any choice you make cannot be changed at any point." no there is not, but thats not what i am saying
im saying there is a rule that tells you what choices you have when you have to make a choice.
so when it calls for something that you have a choice in you get to make that choice. unless something specifically says you dont have a choice.
AC is a choice when you have a choice of calculations, so any time you are required to provide your base AC you make the choice of how to calculate it unless something specifically says you dont have a choice.
I can yes for sure and i did, but i wanted to increase my chance of being hit. so i told the DM my AC was lower this turn for these attack that were already at advantage.
because when he took his opportunity attacks i was choosing a different AC calculation per the AC rules.
you never have to and most people never will.
most people dont cast wish but the rules exist regardless to use if you happen to want to use them.
i dont see a problem at all? at least no one has brought up a RAW or RAI reason that there should be a problem with what i intended to do.
the problem came from my group thinking that you cant do that because you dont get to choose your AC calculations. which i pointed out you do you usually just dont bother because you dont have to. like to hit you rarely ever calculate it but technically you have to calculate it for every attack just like AC.
The question doesn't make any sense.
An attack targets you, it is compared against your AC. You have more than one AC. You pick which AC.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I think the rules were written with the asump[tion that characters would want the highest AC they are eligable at any particular time but it does say you can choose. RAW I think you can choose at any point where it is about to be tested (mainly immediately before each attack) but if the DM has to ask you which AC calculation you are using before every attack combat will really be slowed own so I think it is sensible to limit it a certain amount.
A Defender allows you to choose your AC once per turn (though that is of necessity, if you could do it at will you could have +3 to your attacks and then switch to +3 AC before you either end your turn or are about to draw an op attack), but I think having the player choose their characters AC calculation once per turn is reasonable to speed things up even if not strictly RAW.
You can't go back in time to an already resolved attack and change which AC you chose
Once you pick which AC you're using that it. That's the AC for that attack. Unless a spell/feature says otherwise, like Shield, you can't change that AC. The attack either hits or misses based on what the attack roll was vs the AC you picked to use.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
No he can't. You have to attack for that ability.
But, if he attacked he wouldn't be in this situation would he? He wanted to get injured so that/because his action was something other than attacking.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I agree with you, its implicit in the making an attack. for me, thats how i read it. i think its the correct way and nothing anyone has brought up points to the rules saying otherwise.
but its not explicit in the AC calculations that you have multiple base AC calculations other than the words "you can choose". alot of people seem to think this choice happens at different times based on the comments in this threat.
you and me agree that it happens what the AC is called for in the making an attack action.
alot of people dont think thats the case and im trying to figure out if they have a good reason to think that RAW or RAI
The rules don't offer further insight on when to choose between AC calculation methods whatsoever. A DM can certainly make the ruling that an AC calculation method must be chosen at anytime, or before an attack is made, even at the beginning of a turn, round, combat, minute, hour or even day. Like i said i'd be more concerned of the why then the when in this case.