You can use an arcane focus (see the Adventuring Gear section) as a spellcasting focus for your wizard spells.
from the feat:
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
Compare the wording. neither makes an exception about allowing spells not normally cast with a focus to use one.
Note how they are arranged: You can use [item(s)] as a spellcasting focus for [list of spells]. The differences are only the items and the list of spells. Note how one simply gives you the list of spells as "your wizard spells" whereas the other gives the list of spells as "any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability." Note how neither say anything about contradicting the spellcasting component rules listed in a different place.
Again, note how features that do contradict the component rules tell you that they do (and the only reason that they do is because they tell you that they do).
If you take all these notes, the result is very very very clear that the feat does not change how casting spells works. You cannot cast a non-M spell using your focus via this feat.
The “Specific Beats General” ruleset is meant to apply only to the specific feature where the feature’s description contradicts a general rule of the game.Within the boundaries of how that feature can be implemented or executed in the game, the specific rule defined in the feature is priority over the general rule.This does not mean the specific rule has dismissed or overruled the general rule outside of the execution of this feature; and furthermore, the specific rules of any feature should not be used as a blanket argument or evidence to challenge the general rules of the game.The specific rule only applies to the feature where the rule is defined.
When discussing features, game elements, and game scenarios; the general ruleset always applies and is only overruled when stated otherwise in a description or if conditions are met where a feature (with specific rules) is applicable.
You can cast greater restoration and heal without expending a spell slot, without preparing the spell, and without material components, provided you use alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus. Once you cast either spell with this feature, you can’t cast that spell with it again until you finish a long rest.
This feature grants the character to ability to cast two spells and removes requirements set in the general rules for casting these spells.One aspect of this rule that is open for interpretation is the segment that says “…provided you use alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus” and if this only applies to the previous segment of the statement (as in “without material components, provided you use alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus").This interpretation would only apply to the greater restoration spell and alleviates the requirement to consume materials. The other interpretation implies that the spell casting focus applies to casting both spells associated with the feature.While not exactly the same, it is not uncommon for rules to have items with magically properties allowing a character to cast a particular spell.
Personally, I am fine with either interpretation, and do not see an issue with either ruling.The end result is this feature removes several requirements for casting these specific spells under a specific set of conditions.
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
This rule grants the character the ability to select an artisan tool and that tool type can be used as a spellcasting focus. There is nothing else mentioned in this rule that grants the character extra spell casting abilities or overrules the general ruleset for casting a spell. It only provides the condition when the artisan tools can be use as a spellcasting focus.
It specifically says you can then use those tools to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
Once you start applying the general rules for spellcasting to override this specific example you exclude some spells that use INT as their spellcasting ability, namely those without an M component.
The feat doesn't spell it out as clearly as some other rules do but it creates a specific set of conditions for you to meet which allow you to cast a subset of spells, all of those spells not just the ones with an M component.
It is worded this way because generally you cannot do this, not even Artificers themselves are allowed to use tools or anything else to cast spells that use INT as their spellcasting ability. They can cast their own (Artificer) but not all spells that use INT as their spellcasting ability (Wizard).
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
The general rules do not override anything in the feat. The feat doesn't say ANYTHING on the topic you are talking about, so ONLY the general rule applies.
If the feat says I can use the tools to cast any spell that uses INT spellcasting ability.
And the general rules say I can't use tools to cast spells without an M component.
How is that not a conflict when Magic Missile is both a spell with INT spellcasting ability and no M component?
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Isn't this the entire point of the debate going on in this thread right now?
I am agreeing with what the feat specifically allows me to do.
And others are saying the general rules override this and don't permit the feat to do what it says it can do.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
So you have no reason that identically worded constructions work differently?
Then they work the same. Meaning whatever you say for "your wizard spells" is the same for "any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability."
And since we know how casting works for "your wizard spells" then that obviously means we know how it works for "any spell you cast that uses intelligence as its spellcasting ability." That is to say the focus works to replace M components of spells that have them.
If you first say that they are nearly identical and then a little later in the same post claim they are identical then you are merely arguing semantics. You know the difference as we all do. Wizards, all wizards, are able to use an arcane focus to cast their spells. This is a general rule that applies to all wizards.
The feat has a specific wording that creates what is usually an impossible thing to happen, that is why they worded it that way, so that no one could come along and try to impose the general rules that cover wizards (or any other class) over top of the specific feature the feat is allowing you to do.
The feat doesn't have it's own class or spell list so they say you are allowed to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability. That means any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability, not just ones with an M component.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
I just don't understand what you think is different. Could you explain why the component rules do apply to "your wizard spells" again? Because it surely can't be anything that I can think up. Everything that I could possibly imagine would still apply to any other spell list, including "any spell you cast that uses intelligence as its spellcasting ability."
What is different? You keep saying the same thing, but none of it actually explains the difference in these two rules that would make them work differently.
The feat doesn't have it's own class or spell list so they say you are allowed to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability. That means any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability, not just ones with an M component.
Ok that's the list.... but then do you get to ignore all the other rules of spellcasting too? or only the ones that you find convenient to ignore? Because again, if we are ignoring rules that aren't mentioned in the feat, that could be almost all the spellcasting rules.
One might point out that "your wizard spells" is a big list of spells, and includes some without M components, yet we still follow the component rules when applying a focus to wizard spells. For what reason is one different than the other?
It specifically says you can then use those tools to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
It does not say that. The feat states: "...you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability." The description is specially saying a character with this feat "can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus". It does not grant any additional benefits other than being able to use the selected artisan tool as a spellcasting focus; and there is nothing written that suggests the general ruleset for how a spellcasting focus works should be modified. The part of the description that states "any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability" is a condition that needs to be met in order to uses the tools as spellcasting focus.
Removing the actual documented text and restructuring the statement can lead to false interpretations of the game's rules. It is important to leave the text as written so that specific information is not ignored.
Once you start applying the general rules for spellcasting to override this specific example you exclude some spells that use INT as their spellcasting ability, namely those without an M component.
Spells do not use a spellcasting ability; Spellcastinguses the specllasting ability. This is a rather important distinction because it is common, and occurs with a high frequency, that a single spell can be casted using different spellcasting abilities. The feature that grants a character spellcasting identifies what the spellcasting ability is (i.e. INT, CHA, WIS). A character gains spellcasting features based on their class, subclass, feats, or inherent characteristics (there might be more examples I am missing).
Spells do have a component requirement, and these must be met, unless if a character has a Spellcasting Feature that specifically says the spell can be casted without components.
There is nothing specific in the description of Artificer Initiate that overrules the general ruleset for the function of Spellcasting Focus. The feat only permits the character to use a selected artisan tool as a focus under specified conditions.
The feat doesn't spell it out as clearly as some other rules do but it creates a specific set of conditions for you to meet which allow you to cast a subset of spells, all of those spells not just the ones with an M component.
It is worded this way because generally you cannot do this, not even Artificers themselves are allowed to use tools or anything else to cast spells that use INT as their spellcasting ability. They can cast their own (Artificer) but not all spells that use INT as their spellcasting ability (Wizard).
You admit the feat doesn't specify any exceptions, like how other descriptions do when they want to specify a rule that contradicts the general ruleset. Therefore if the description doesn't specify an exception or contradiction to a general rule then the general rule is still applicable. There is no evidence or justification otherwise.
The wording of the feat is to grant the character the ability to use their selected artisan tools as a spellcasting focus and to limit the applicable use of this focus. In other words, a Sorcerer cannot take this feat and be able to use the artisan tools as a spellcasting focus for their Sorcerer Spells because the Sorcerer Spellcasting feature is Charisma based. However, if that same character had another spellcasting feature that uses INT as their spellcasting ability then a spell that is accessible by this second spellcasting feature that requires a non-consumable material component can be successfully cast by the character by using the selected artisan tools as a spellcasting focus.
As you say the entire wording must be adhered to and you cannot separate the ability to use a tool as a spellcasting focus from just what spells you can use that tool as a spellcasting focus for.
You gain proficiency with one type of artisan’s tools of your choice, and you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability.
You don't just get to use the tools as a spellcasting focus and that's it. There are conditions. Those conditions include any spell that use INT as its spellcasting ability.
That means Magic Missile , Knock , Catapult , Thunderwave and many more, the list goes on and on. How many are on the list and where do we find this list? Can we just make up rules or stick with the general rules for spellcasting. NO! We must follow RAW and just go by what the feat says. It says we can use any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability. This includes every single spell on the Artificer and Wizard spell list. EVERY SINGLE ONE! NO EXCEPTIONS!
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
The feat doesn't have it's own class or spell list so they say you are allowed to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability. That means any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability, not just ones with an M component.
Ok that's the list.... but then do you get to ignore all the other rules of spellcasting too? or only the ones that you find convenient to ignore? Because again, if we are ignoring rules that aren't mentioned in the feat, that could be almost all the spellcasting rules.
One might point out that "your wizard spells" is a big list of spells, and includes some without M components, yet we still follow the component rules when applying a focus to wizard spells. For what reason is one different than the other?
I don't see you actually addressing any of the complaints people bring up. We know what spells are eligible, but what rules do you have to follow to cast them? None at all apparently?
Once again for the umpteenth time the general rules for spellcasting are followed by all wizards which means they can only use their focus for castig spells WITH an M component.
And the feat allows you to use the tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability. This means all spells on the Artificer and Wizard lists. ALL SPELLS!
So by following the rules and adhering to RAW we see that wizards (and by extension all classes) cannot use their respective foci to cast spells without an M component.
But anyone with the Artificer Initiate feat can use the artisan tool spellcasting focus they chose to cast any spell, with or without an M component, so long as that spell can be found on a spell list that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Again, the rule states you "can use [item] as a focus for [list of spells]."
How do you use a focus for a spell with no M component? What rules govern that? Where is it detailed? It needs to be somewhere written down how you use a focus for a spell with no M component. Why? Because the only general rules that govern foci deal with M components.
Not as focus for list of spells... for any spell on that list.
You hold the focus in at least one hand and cast the spell as the feat specifically describes you are able to do.
The general rules don't allow you to do this, but the feat does. It is detailed right there in the feat that I have been quoting this entire time while you guys have been trying to add in general rules that don't appear anywhere in the feat.
Again, it's written right there in the feat, that's why, so that no one can legitimately argue otherwise. Everyone can just read the feat and follow the instructions and rules therein.
Yes, the general rules that govern foci do deal with M components, but this feat skirts that rule by allowing you to use this particular foci to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
Not as focus for list of spells... for any spell on that list.
Ok, semantic games i see. but somehow still missing the point. Any spell on any list that you replace [list of spells] with would still follow spellcasting rules, no?
You hold the focus in at least one hand and cast the spell as the feat specifically describes you are able to do.
where is this written?
The general rules don't allow you to do this, but the feat does. It is detailed right there in the feat that I have been quoting this entire time while you guys have been trying to add in general rules that don't appear anywhere in the feat.
We are talking about general rules that the feat doesn't mention EXACTLY because the feat doesn't mention them. This is where your understanding disconnect stems from: the part you are having trouble with is that if a rule doesn't make an exception to a general rule then it still applies. This feat doesn't make any exceptions for M components or focuses that change how they work, which means we use the general rules for how a focus works still applies. So we need to discuss them.
The general rules don't allow you to do this, but the feat does.
No, it does not.
The general spellcasting rules for using focus items are not overriden in the wizard rules, and not overriden in the Artificer Initiate feat. They are overriden in the Artificer spellcasting rules, which are not included as part of the Artificer Initiate feat.
Your argument is misleading. And I still can't fathom why you're bothering. Either you convince your DM (or yourself) to use this as a house rule, or you don't.
I don't have to convince anyone. I just read the feat and apply it. Anyone else is free to do the same. They are also free to ignore what the feat says and apply the general rules for spellcasting.
Does the Magic Missile spell, if chosen from the wizard spell list, use INT as its spellcasting ability... yes or no?
If no then you can't cast it with this feat because the feat only allows you to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
If yes then you can cast it with this feat because the feat only allows you to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
It's not up to me to decide but each and every person reading the feat. Adjudicate it as you see fit.
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"A rightful place awaits you in the Realms Above, in the Land of the Great Light. Come in peace, and live beneath the sun again, where trees and flowers grow."
— The message of Eilistraee to all decent drow.
"Run thy sword across my chains, Silver Lady, that I may join your dance.”
— A basic prayer.
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If you are interested, Double check the word for word structure of the two rules. I have quoted my earlier post for reference
Note how they are arranged: You can use [item(s)] as a spellcasting focus for [list of spells]. The differences are only the items and the list of spells. Note how one simply gives you the list of spells as "your wizard spells" whereas the other gives the list of spells as "any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability." Note how neither say anything about contradicting the spellcasting component rules listed in a different place.
Again, note how features that do contradict the component rules tell you that they do (and the only reason that they do is because they tell you that they do).
If you take all these notes, the result is very very very clear that the feat does not change how casting spells works. You cannot cast a non-M spell using your focus via this feat.
The “Specific Beats General” ruleset is meant to apply only to the specific feature where the feature’s description contradicts a general rule of the game. Within the boundaries of how that feature can be implemented or executed in the game, the specific rule defined in the feature is priority over the general rule. This does not mean the specific rule has dismissed or overruled the general rule outside of the execution of this feature; and furthermore, the specific rules of any feature should not be used as a blanket argument or evidence to challenge the general rules of the game. The specific rule only applies to the feature where the rule is defined.
When discussing features, game elements, and game scenarios; the general ruleset always applies and is only overruled when stated otherwise in a description or if conditions are met where a feature (with specific rules) is applicable.
For the specific rule being discussed for the Chemical Mastery:
This feature grants the character to ability to cast two spells and removes requirements set in the general rules for casting these spells. One aspect of this rule that is open for interpretation is the segment that says “…provided you use alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus” and if this only applies to the previous segment of the statement (as in “without material components, provided you use alchemist’s supplies as the spellcasting focus"). This interpretation would only apply to the greater restoration spell and alleviates the requirement to consume materials. The other interpretation implies that the spell casting focus applies to casting both spells associated with the feature. While not exactly the same, it is not uncommon for rules to have items with magically properties allowing a character to cast a particular spell.
Personally, I am fine with either interpretation, and do not see an issue with either ruling. The end result is this feature removes several requirements for casting these specific spells under a specific set of conditions.
Moving on to the Artificer Initiate rule under discussion:
This rule grants the character the ability to select an artisan tool and that tool type can be used as a spellcasting focus. There is nothing else mentioned in this rule that grants the character extra spell casting abilities or overrules the general ruleset for casting a spell. It only provides the condition when the artisan tools can be use as a spellcasting focus.
It specifically says you can then use those tools to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
Once you start applying the general rules for spellcasting to override this specific example you exclude some spells that use INT as their spellcasting ability, namely those without an M component.
The feat doesn't spell it out as clearly as some other rules do but it creates a specific set of conditions for you to meet which allow you to cast a subset of spells, all of those spells not just the ones with an M component.
It is worded this way because generally you cannot do this, not even Artificers themselves are allowed to use tools or anything else to cast spells that use INT as their spellcasting ability. They can cast their own (Artificer) but not all spells that use INT as their spellcasting ability (Wizard).
The general rules do not override anything in the feat. The feat doesn't say ANYTHING on the topic you are talking about, so ONLY the general rule applies.
I respectfully ask you to read the rule again.
If the feat says I can use the tools to cast any spell that uses INT spellcasting ability.
And the general rules say I can't use tools to cast spells without an M component.
How is that not a conflict when Magic Missile is both a spell with INT spellcasting ability and no M component?
And if the wizard class says you can use a focus for any of your wizard spells, how again is that any different?
Again, I would like to see you actually explain why identical rule constructions work differently.
Isn't this the entire point of the debate going on in this thread right now?
I am agreeing with what the feat specifically allows me to do.
And others are saying the general rules override this and don't permit the feat to do what it says it can do.
So you have no reason that identically worded constructions work differently?
Then they work the same. Meaning whatever you say for "your wizard spells" is the same for "any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability."
And since we know how casting works for "your wizard spells" then that obviously means we know how it works for "any spell you cast that uses intelligence as its spellcasting ability." That is to say the focus works to replace M components of spells that have them.
If you first say that they are nearly identical and then a little later in the same post claim they are identical then you are merely arguing semantics. You know the difference as we all do. Wizards, all wizards, are able to use an arcane focus to cast their spells. This is a general rule that applies to all wizards.
The feat has a specific wording that creates what is usually an impossible thing to happen, that is why they worded it that way, so that no one could come along and try to impose the general rules that cover wizards (or any other class) over top of the specific feature the feat is allowing you to do.
The feat doesn't have it's own class or spell list so they say you are allowed to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability. That means any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability, not just ones with an M component.
No. You are wrong.
I just don't understand what you think is different. Could you explain why the component rules do apply to "your wizard spells" again? Because it surely can't be anything that I can think up. Everything that I could possibly imagine would still apply to any other spell list, including "any spell you cast that uses intelligence as its spellcasting ability."
What is different? You keep saying the same thing, but none of it actually explains the difference in these two rules that would make them work differently.
Ok that's the list.... but then do you get to ignore all the other rules of spellcasting too? or only the ones that you find convenient to ignore? Because again, if we are ignoring rules that aren't mentioned in the feat, that could be almost all the spellcasting rules.
One might point out that "your wizard spells" is a big list of spells, and includes some without M components, yet we still follow the component rules when applying a focus to wizard spells. For what reason is one different than the other?
It does not say that. The feat states: "...you can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell you cast that uses Intelligence as its spellcasting ability." The description is specially saying a character with this feat "can use that type of tool as a spellcasting focus". It does not grant any additional benefits other than being able to use the selected artisan tool as a spellcasting focus; and there is nothing written that suggests the general ruleset for how a spellcasting focus works should be modified. The part of the description that states "any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability" is a condition that needs to be met in order to uses the tools as spellcasting focus.
Removing the actual documented text and restructuring the statement can lead to false interpretations of the game's rules. It is important to leave the text as written so that specific information is not ignored.
Spells do not use a spellcasting ability; Spellcasting uses the specllasting ability. This is a rather important distinction because it is common, and occurs with a high frequency, that a single spell can be casted using different spellcasting abilities. The feature that grants a character spellcasting identifies what the spellcasting ability is (i.e. INT, CHA, WIS). A character gains spellcasting features based on their class, subclass, feats, or inherent characteristics (there might be more examples I am missing).
Spells do have a component requirement, and these must be met, unless if a character has a Spellcasting Feature that specifically says the spell can be casted without components.
There is nothing specific in the description of Artificer Initiate that overrules the general ruleset for the function of Spellcasting Focus. The feat only permits the character to use a selected artisan tool as a focus under specified conditions.
You admit the feat doesn't specify any exceptions, like how other descriptions do when they want to specify a rule that contradicts the general ruleset. Therefore if the description doesn't specify an exception or contradiction to a general rule then the general rule is still applicable. There is no evidence or justification otherwise.
The wording of the feat is to grant the character the ability to use their selected artisan tools as a spellcasting focus and to limit the applicable use of this focus. In other words, a Sorcerer cannot take this feat and be able to use the artisan tools as a spellcasting focus for their Sorcerer Spells because the Sorcerer Spellcasting feature is Charisma based. However, if that same character had another spellcasting feature that uses INT as their spellcasting ability then a spell that is accessible by this second spellcasting feature that requires a non-consumable material component can be successfully cast by the character by using the selected artisan tools as a spellcasting focus.
As you say the entire wording must be adhered to and you cannot separate the ability to use a tool as a spellcasting focus from just what spells you can use that tool as a spellcasting focus for.
You don't just get to use the tools as a spellcasting focus and that's it. There are conditions. Those conditions include any spell that use INT as its spellcasting ability.
That means Magic Missile , Knock , Catapult , Thunderwave and many more, the list goes on and on. How many are on the list and where do we find this list? Can we just make up rules or stick with the general rules for spellcasting. NO! We must follow RAW and just go by what the feat says. It says we can use any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability. This includes every single spell on the Artificer and Wizard spell list. EVERY SINGLE ONE! NO EXCEPTIONS!
I don't see you actually addressing any of the complaints people bring up. We know what spells are eligible, but what rules do you have to follow to cast them? None at all apparently?
Once again for the umpteenth time the general rules for spellcasting are followed by all wizards which means they can only use their focus for castig spells WITH an M component.
And the feat allows you to use the tool as a spellcasting focus for any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability. This means all spells on the Artificer and Wizard lists. ALL SPELLS!
So by following the rules and adhering to RAW we see that wizards (and by extension all classes) cannot use their respective foci to cast spells without an M component.
But anyone with the Artificer Initiate feat can use the artisan tool spellcasting focus they chose to cast any spell, with or without an M component, so long as that spell can be found on a spell list that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
Again, the rule states you "can use [item] as a focus for [list of spells]."
How do you use a focus for a spell with no M component? What rules govern that? Where is it detailed? It needs to be somewhere written down how you use a focus for a spell with no M component. Why? Because the only general rules that govern foci deal with M components.
Not as focus for list of spells... for any spell on that list.
You hold the focus in at least one hand and cast the spell as the feat specifically describes you are able to do.
The general rules don't allow you to do this, but the feat does. It is detailed right there in the feat that I have been quoting this entire time while you guys have been trying to add in general rules that don't appear anywhere in the feat.
Again, it's written right there in the feat, that's why, so that no one can legitimately argue otherwise. Everyone can just read the feat and follow the instructions and rules therein.
Yes, the general rules that govern foci do deal with M components, but this feat skirts that rule by allowing you to use this particular foci to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
Ok, semantic games i see. but somehow still missing the point. Any spell on any list that you replace [list of spells] with would still follow spellcasting rules, no?
where is this written?
We are talking about general rules that the feat doesn't mention EXACTLY because the feat doesn't mention them. This is where your understanding disconnect stems from: the part you are having trouble with is that if a rule doesn't make an exception to a general rule then it still applies. This feat doesn't make any exceptions for M components or focuses that change how they work, which means we use the general rules for how a focus works still applies. So we need to discuss them.
No, it does not.
The general spellcasting rules for using focus items are not overriden in the wizard rules, and not overriden in the Artificer Initiate feat. They are overriden in the Artificer spellcasting rules, which are not included as part of the Artificer Initiate feat.
Your argument is misleading. And I still can't fathom why you're bothering. Either you convince your DM (or yourself) to use this as a house rule, or you don't.
I don't have to convince anyone. I just read the feat and apply it. Anyone else is free to do the same. They are also free to ignore what the feat says and apply the general rules for spellcasting.
Does the Magic Missile spell, if chosen from the wizard spell list, use INT as its spellcasting ability... yes or no?
If no then you can't cast it with this feat because the feat only allows you to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
If yes then you can cast it with this feat because the feat only allows you to cast any spell that uses INT as its spellcasting ability.
It's not up to me to decide but each and every person reading the feat. Adjudicate it as you see fit.