This is actually important in the interpretation of Adamantine armour.
"This suit of armor is reinforced with adamantine, one of the hardest substances in existence. While you're wearing it, any critical hit against you becomes a normal hit."
If a die roll of 20 becomes a normal hit rather than a critical hit AND the auto hit feature is actually part of being a critical hit ... then it is possible for a creature with Adamantine armour to use the shield spell to cause the attack to miss ... assuming the 20 was actually a hit ... BECAUSE Adamantine armour changes the critical hit to a normal hit. Normal hits do NOT have an automatically hit property and so can be mitigated by other character abilities. This happens IF the auto hit on a 20 is part of being a critical hit. If critical hit refers to only the damage and the roll of a 20 automatically hits then all Adamantine armor does is mitigate the damage (which is how I think most people play it).
So, incorporating the auto hit feature into the definition of critical hit has implications for other rules.
Adamantine Armor changes a critical hit into a normal hit, not into a normal attack. A normal hit is still a hit; it's right there in the name. Adamantine Armor can never turn a hit into a miss.
The shield spell is triggered off a normal hit - not a normal attack.
"* - which you take when you are hit by an attack or targeted by the magic missile spell"
If the attack becomes a normal hit when Adamantine armor is involved AND rolling a 20 is only an automatic hit when it is a critical hit, then since the attack is no longer a critical hit when adamantine armor is involved and becomes a normal hit then the shield spell can be used since it is triggered by an attack that hits and a normal hit has no guarantee of hitting on a 20 unless it is a critical hit (using the definition in which the automatic hit is considered a property of a critical hit).
That's actually an interesting interaction I hadn't considered, thank you! Allow me to revise: Adamantine armor can never turn a hit into a miss without the intervention of some other feature that can already turn a hit into a miss.
The shield spell is triggered off a normal hit - not a normal attack.
"* - which you take when you are hit by an attack or targeted by the magic missile spell"
If the attack becomes a normal hit when Adamantine armor is involved AND rolling a 20 is only an automatic hit when it is a critical hit, then since the attack is no longer a critical hit when adamantine armor is involved and becomes a normal hit then the shield spell can be used since it is triggered by an attack that hits and a normal hit has no guarantee of hitting on a 20 unless it is a critical hit (using the definition in which the automatic hit is considered a property of a critical hit).
I come to different conclusions. To me if a natural 20 is rolled against you while wearing an Adamantine Armor, then Shield or any other AC bonus wouldn't turn it into a miss. It would only cancel the critical hit. The only feature canceling an automatic hit is an automatic miss.
RAW the magic armor strikethrough the crit effect, which is a seperate sentence in the rule for Rolling 1 or 20 .
If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC. This is called a critical hit, which is explained later in this section. When you score a critical hit, you get to roll extra dice for the attack's damage against the target. Roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal.
Are you striking out the part that says the opposite of your conclusion because it is contrary to your conclusion? The second, struck out sentence literally names the rule in the first sentence a critical hit. Which means that the first sentence describes a critical hit.
I don't understand why the PHB is written this way though, as it makes the critical hit rule completely unapproachable from a readability standpoint. Why is it described in two places across the chapter?
I'm striking the sentence relevant to critical hit since with a Adamantine Armor it isn't. But other parts of the rule for Rolling 1 or 20 still apply because the magic armor doesn't say it doesn't.
The armor never say if the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack doesn't hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC.
But literally, an automatic hit is part of a critical hit. The only reason you struck out the sentence seems to be that it disproves your conclusion. It calls a 20 that automatically hits a critical hit. So a critical hit is "If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20" and "the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC." Because the thing called a critical hit is exactly the first sentence "If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC."
Because of the sentence that you are ignoring. "This is called a critical hit..."
To me a Champion fighter with Improved Critical or Supersior Critical scoring a critical hit against a target wearring an Adamantine Armor on a roll of 18 or 19 would become a normal hit even if a roll should miss. #specificvsgeneral.
But literally, an automatic hit is part of a critical hit. The only reason you struck out the sentence seems to be that it disproves your conclusion. It calls a 20 that automatically hits a critical hit. So a critical hit is "If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20" and "the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC." Because the thing called a critical hit is exactly the first sentence "If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC."
Because of the sentence that you are ignoring. "This is called a critical hit..."
Automatic hit is not part of the rules for Critical Hit it's part of the rules for Rolling 1 or 20 which called them a critical hit but the Adamantine Armor cancel the critical hit. But it doesn't cancel the automatic hit part of nat 20.
No a critical hit is always a hit as it's names imply, you roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together.
But the part that says If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC is a distinct rules called Rolling 1 or 20, also tying to Critical Hit. It's not a feature of the Critical Hit rules that get cancel altogether, at leasts that's how i see it.
No, it isn't a distinct rule. taken out of context, you might think so, but the very next sentence calls that a critical hit.
I really don't understand the logic of your position. Your position is that a critical hit is an automatic hit because of its name, and not because of the sentences that says a particular thing an automatic hit and then name it a critical hit? Or in other words say a critical hit is an automatic hit...
For what reason are you ignoring "This is called a critical hit..."?
No, it isn't a distinct rule. taken out of context, you might thing so, but the very next sentence calls that a critical hit.
Yes but the sentence is in the rules for Rolling 1 or 20, and makes a reference to another rule called Critical Hit . This is how they are featured, in two different places as you said earlier..
I don't understand why the PHB is written this way though, as it makes the critical hit rule completely unapproachable from a readability standpoint. Why is it described in two places across the chapter?
The Critical Hit is not described in Rolling 1 or 20, it's referenced as being called one as a general rule a nat 20 is an automatic hit. It's called a critical rule, andhas other distinct effects on damage. But if an effect such as Adamantine Armor cancel the crit, the automatic hit is still occuring because Rolling 1 or 20 is a distinct rule with such effect even if no more called a critical hit. It makes a critical hit becomes a normal hit.
The shield spell is triggered off a normal hit - not a normal attack.
"* - which you take when you are hit by an attack or targeted by the magic missile spell"
If the attack becomes a normal hit when Adamantine armor is involved AND rolling a 20 is only an automatic hit when it is a critical hit, then since the attack is no longer a critical hit when adamantine armor is involved and becomes a normal hit then the shield spell can be used since it is triggered by an attack that hits and a normal hit has no guarantee of hitting on a 20 unless it is a critical hit (using the definition in which the automatic hit is considered a property of a critical hit).
I come to different conclusions. To me if a natural 20 is rolled against you while wearing an Adamantine Armor, then Shield or any other AC bonus wouldn't turn it into a miss. It would only cancel the critical hit. The only feature canceling an automatic hit is an automatic miss.
RAW the magic armor strikethrough the crit effect, which is a seperate sentence in the rule for Rolling 1 or 20 .
If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC. This is called a critical hit, which is explained later in this section. When you score a critical hit, you get to roll extra dice for the attack's damage against the target. Roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal.
I agree. That is how I usually run it. However, if you accept that the definition of "critical hit" is one which automatically hits on a 20 as some have suggested then a feature that changes a critical hit to a normal hit (as Adamantine armor does) would also lose the automatic hit property since it is no longer a critical hit but a normal hit.
It really depends on whether someone reads the rules and decides that an automatic hit on a die roll of 20 is part of the definition of critical hit or not. The description of critical hit itself only refers to doubling the damage dice.
No a critical hit is always a hit as it's names imply, you roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together.
But the part that says If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC is a distinct rules called Rolling 1 or 20, also tying to Critical Hit. It's not a feature of the Critical Hit rules that get cancel altogether, at leasts that's how i see it.
However, if a feature changes a critical hit which automatically hits into a normal hit that CAN miss ... then presumably the shield spell and other effects that trigger on a hit can be used to change that normal hit into a miss? The only way a hit can retain the automatic hit feature when something changes a critical hit to a normal hit is if the automatic hit feature is independent of it being called a critical hit.
I agree. That is how I usually run it. However, if you accept that the definition of "critical hit" is one which automatically hits on a 20 as some have suggested then a feature that changes a critical hit to a normal hit (as Adamantine armor does) would also lose the automatic hit property since it is no longer a critical hit but a normal hit.
The Adamantine Armor literally makes any critical hit against you becomes a normal hit. and if the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC. I come to different conclusion and can't say it becomes a miss.
I am confused why one would think anything except the damage rolls for a critical hit would be described in the damage rolls section of the combat chapter.
What does the sentence "This is called a critical hit, which is explained later in this chapter." actually mean then?
Doesn't it name the previous thing a critical hit? Do my eyes deceive me?
What is this sentence calling a critical hit? The only option is whatever the previous sentence described. Huh? guess I'm right.
Its a reference to Critical Hit which is no more when an Adamantine Armor make it become a normal hit, hence the strikethrough. So rolling a 20 no more is a critical hit. But the other effect of Rolling 1 or 20 are still occuring if you rolled a nat 20. It doesn't camcel the entire effect of rolling 20, just the effect resulting from a crit.
You're all free to come to different conclusions or opinions than me though : )
However, if a feature changes a critical hit which automatically hits into a normal hit that CAN miss ... then presumably the shield spell and other effects that trigger on a hit can be used to change that normal hit into a miss?
The bolded part is not in the Adamantine Armor. The crit becomes a normal hit period. On a hit, you roll damage according to how we are Making An Attack
Resolve the attack. You make the attack roll. On a hit, you roll damage, unless the particular attack has rules that specify otherwise. Some attacks cause special effects in addition to or instead of damage.
The only way a hit can retain the automatic hit feature when something changes a critical hit to a normal hit is if the automatic hit feature is independent of it being called a critical hit.
If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC still occur if you're Rolling 1 or 20 . To turn it into a miss the effect would need to specifically say it becomes a miss. It's the only thing that cancel a nat 20.
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That's actually an interesting interaction I hadn't considered, thank you! Allow me to revise: Adamantine armor can never turn a hit into a miss without the intervention of some other feature that can already turn a hit into a miss.
I come to different conclusions. To me if a natural 20 is rolled against you while wearing an Adamantine Armor, then Shield or any other AC bonus wouldn't turn it into a miss. It would only cancel the critical hit. The only feature canceling an automatic hit is an automatic miss.
RAW the magic armor strikethrough the crit effect, which is a seperate sentence in the rule for Rolling 1 or 20 .
If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC.
This is called a critical hit, which is explained later in this section. When you score a critical hit, you get to roll extra dice for the attack's damage against the target. Roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together. Then add any relevant modifiers as normal.Are you striking out the part that says the opposite of your conclusion because it is contrary to your conclusion? The second, struck out sentence literally names the rule in the first sentence a critical hit. Which means that the first sentence describes a critical hit.
I don't understand why the PHB is written this way though, as it makes the critical hit rule completely unapproachable from a readability standpoint. Why is it described in two places across the chapter?
I'm striking the sentence relevant to critical hit since with a Adamantine Armor it isn't. But other parts of the rule for Rolling 1 or 20 still apply because the magic armor doesn't say it doesn't.
The armor never say if the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack doesn't hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC.
But literally, an automatic hit is part of a critical hit. The only reason you struck out the sentence seems to be that it disproves your conclusion. It calls a 20 that automatically hits a critical hit. So a critical hit is "If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20" and "the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC." Because the thing called a critical hit is exactly the first sentence "If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC."
Because of the sentence that you are ignoring. "This is called a critical hit..."
To me a Champion fighter with Improved Critical or Supersior Critical scoring a critical hit against a target wearring an Adamantine Armor on a roll of 18 or 19 would become a normal hit even if a roll should miss. #specificvsgeneral.
So a Champion doesn't get a critical when a 19 misses?
Automatic hit is not part of the rules for Critical Hit it's part of the rules for Rolling 1 or 20 which called them a critical hit but the Adamantine Armor cancel the critical hit. But it doesn't cancel the automatic hit part of nat 20.
You are saying that an automatic hit is not part of a critical hit, so a champion who rolls a 19 can still miss (against any generic armor)?
No a critical hit is always a hit as it's names imply, you roll all of the attack's damage dice twice and add them together.
But the part that says If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC is a distinct rules called Rolling 1 or 20, also tying to Critical Hit. It's not a feature of the Critical Hit rules that get cancel altogether, at leasts that's how i see it.
No, it isn't a distinct rule. taken out of context, you might think so, but the very next sentence calls that a critical hit.
I really don't understand the logic of your position. Your position is that a critical hit is an automatic hit because of its name, and not because of the sentences that says a particular thing an automatic hit and then name it a critical hit? Or in other words say a critical hit is an automatic hit...
For what reason are you ignoring "This is called a critical hit..."?
Yes but the sentence is in the rules for Rolling 1 or 20, and makes a reference to another rule called Critical Hit . This is how they are featured, in two different places as you said earlier..
The Critical Hit is not described in Rolling 1 or 20, it's referenced as being called one as a general rule a nat 20 is an automatic hit. It's called a critical rule, andhas other distinct effects on damage. But if an effect such as Adamantine Armor cancel the crit, the automatic hit is still occuring because Rolling 1 or 20 is a distinct rule with such effect even if no more called a critical hit. It makes a critical hit becomes a normal hit.
I agree. That is how I usually run it. However, if you accept that the definition of "critical hit" is one which automatically hits on a 20 as some have suggested then a feature that changes a critical hit to a normal hit (as Adamantine armor does) would also lose the automatic hit property since it is no longer a critical hit but a normal hit.
It really depends on whether someone reads the rules and decides that an automatic hit on a die roll of 20 is part of the definition of critical hit or not. The description of critical hit itself only refers to doubling the damage dice.
What does the sentence "This is called a critical hit, which is explained later in this chapter." actually mean then?
Doesn't it name the previous thing a critical hit? Do my eyes deceive me?
What is this sentence calling a critical hit? The only option is whatever the previous sentence described. Huh? guess I'm right.
However, if a feature changes a critical hit which automatically hits into a normal hit that CAN miss ... then presumably the shield spell and other effects that trigger on a hit can be used to change that normal hit into a miss? The only way a hit can retain the automatic hit feature when something changes a critical hit to a normal hit is if the automatic hit feature is independent of it being called a critical hit.
The Adamantine Armor literally makes any critical hit against you becomes a normal hit. and if the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC. I come to different conclusion and can't say it becomes a miss.
I am confused why one would think anything except the damage rolls for a critical hit would be described in the damage rolls section of the combat chapter.
Its a reference to Critical Hit which is no more when an Adamantine Armor make it become a normal hit, hence the strikethrough. So rolling a 20 no more is a critical hit. But the other effect of Rolling 1 or 20 are still occuring if you rolled a nat 20. It doesn't camcel the entire effect of rolling 20, just the effect resulting from a crit.
You're all free to come to different conclusions or opinions than me though : )
But it refers to the sentence before? So why didn't you strike what it refers to out too?
The bolded part is not in the Adamantine Armor. The crit becomes a normal hit period. On a hit, you roll damage according to how we are Making An Attack
If the d20 roll for an attack is a 20, the attack hits regardless of any modifiers or the target's AC still occur if you're Rolling 1 or 20 . To turn it into a miss the effect would need to specifically say it becomes a miss. It's the only thing that cancel a nat 20.