The spell description tion says "You touch a closed door, window, gate, chest, or other entryway, and it becomes locked for the duration.
You and the creatures you designate when you cast this spell can open the object normally. You can also set a password that, when spoken within 5 feet of the object, suppresses this spell for 1 minute. Otherwise, it is impassable until it is broken or the spell is dispelled or suppressed. Casting Knock on the object suppresses Arcane Lock for 10 minutes.
While affected by this spell, the object is more difficult to break or force open; the DC to break it or pick any locks on it increases by 10."
So my question is with a typical locked wooden door is doesn't it just make the DC to break it down or pick the lock 25?
If the door has no lock wouldn't it be DC 25 to break down, but only DC 10 to pick?
And finally a door that's barred on the other side would be DC 30 to break and impossible to pick?
If the door has no lock wouldn't it be DC 25 to break down, but only DC 10 to pick?
No, you cannot pick this door open since there are no locks on it. It is a door with no locks which becomes locked for the duration.
I was going off the assumption that a door or container without a lock would still have a handle or latch which could be opened with thieves tools even if magic is stopping the mechanism from functioning normally.
If it didn't have any mechanism wouldn't it just be a strength check of 10 to open since the only thing keeping the object closed is the spell which increases the DC by 10?
It is clearly not intended that an unlocked container becomes harder to open than a locked one while under the effects of this spell.
For that matter, the sentence in the spell "Otherwise, it is impassable until it is broken or the spell is dispelled or suppressed." seems to be incompatible with the later sentence "While affected by this spell, the object is more difficult to break or force open; the DC to break it or pick any locks on it increases by 10."
The only way to reconcile these is to take the first sentence at face value, which is that you must break the thing, dispel or suppress the spell. At that point, whether the thing has its own lock or not is moot or only serves as a red herring: the lock may be harder to pick, but the rest of the effect of the spell is what is keeping you out of the object anyway.
The spell description tion says "You touch a closed door, window, gate, chest, or other entryway, and it becomes locked for the duration.
You and the creatures you designate when you cast this spell can open the object normally. You can also set a password that, when spoken within 5 feet of the object, suppresses this spell for 1 minute. Otherwise, it is impassable until it is broken or the spell is dispelled or suppressed. Casting Knock on the object suppresses Arcane Lock for 10 minutes.
While affected by this spell, the object is more difficult to break or force open; the DC to break it or pick any locks on it increases by 10."
So my question is with a typical locked wooden door is doesn't it just make the DC to break it down or pick the lock 25?
If the door has no lock wouldn't it be DC 25 to break down, but only DC 10 to pick?
And finally a door that's barred on the other side would be DC 30 to break and impossible to pick?
first, the initial difficulty of the door or container has to be established. Most average unlocked objects have a open difficulty is 5 or less ( very easy, no lock ), 5-15 if security is employed ( easy to med diff), or 15 - 20 ( hard ) due to multiple lockout measures.
All arcane lock does is increase the difficulty an individual has to deal with in opening the affected object(s), and turns a simple opening of whatever your trying to get at, into a speed bump.
You can’t pick a door with no physical lock that has been magically locked, you ether have to disperse the spell, or massively overpower it. ( unless the DC is so high, the dm tries to keep you from attempting, and watches you fail stubbornly. )
Magic locks just work differently than non magical types, and really are at the discretion of the dm whether they want you to open what has clearly been a deemed a secure area.
It is clearly not intended that an unlocked container becomes harder to open than a locked one while under the effects of this spell.
I don't think that we can make this assumption based on the spell description. The way that I read it, we start with the premise that there is a "closed gate, and it becomes locked for the duration". The main idea is that you are locking something that is unlocked -- however, the use of the word "closed" instead of "unlocked" means that both locked and unlocked gates are valid targets.
Now let's create an example. Suppose it's an outdoor swinging gate with no latch that either hangs in place with no resistance or locked with a simple, flimsy padlock. DC 5 to pick the lock and DC 5 to break off the padlock by pushing on the gate itself at which point it can swing open freely. For convenience, let's also suppose that there is another identical swinging gate nearby, but this one has no padlock.
"While affected by this spell, the object is more difficult to break or force open; the DC to break it or pick any locks on it increases by 10"
To me, if we start with Gate #1 in the locked position and Gate #2 in the closed position, we end up with DC 15 to pick and DC 15 to force open Gate #1 and for Gate #2 there is no padlock so it's impossible to pick and it is DC 10 to force it open. In the case of Gate #2 the above assumption was thwarted since the unlocked gate becomes harder to open than the gate which was locked by a simple, non-magical lock. For Gate #2, it would appear as if it was just hanging there, ready to be easily pushed open with minimal force, but it's being magically held shut by the spell to the tune of DC 10.
I agree that some of this is a bit ambiguous though, particularly with how it's unclear if "breaking the object" should be interchangeable with "forcing the object open" or not.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, it's less clear to me what happens if Gate #1 is left in the closed, but unlocked position. Does the spell actually cause the padlock to lock itself, and also strengthen it? In which case we end up back at the final result of DC 15 to pick and DC 15 to force open. Or, does the spell ignore the unlocked lock and just magically hold the gate shut, in which case we have a lock that is impossible to pick (it's already unlocked) and a DC 10 to force the gate open -- basically, it would end up with the same result as Gate #2 which has no padlock at all. I'm not sure which of those makes more sense for the spell description in question.
I wrote something (now deleted), and now I have doubts after reading the last comments.
In my view, if a door doesn't have any lock, the spell is still effective for such doors. One way to open it could be through a successful Strength (Athletics) check. With the spell, the base DC for opening that door should be increased by 10. The base DC must be set by the DM.
For example, to break down a hypothetical wooden door without any locks and withoutarcane lock the difficulty could be none, and with the spell, therefore, it would be 10.
It's my understanding after seeing these kinds of things in some official modules:
Example for a door without any locks: The adamantine door to this room has an arcane lock spell cast on it, but it swings open when a dwarf or a creature transformed into a dwarf touches it. Another creature can force it open with a successful DC 21 Strength (Athletics) check. A knock spell or similar magic also opens it. [...]
Example for a door with a lock: An arcane lock spell is cast on the gates. Forcing them open requires a successful DC 25 Strength (Athletics) check, while picking the lock requires a successful DC 20 Dexterity check using thieves' tools.
Example for a lid without any locks: The sarcophagus lid is sealed with an arcane lockspell. It can be opened with a knock spell or forced open with a successful DC 25 Strength (Athletics) check.
The spell description tion says "You touch a closed door, window, gate, chest, or other entryway, and it becomes locked for the duration.
You and the creatures you designate when you cast this spell can open the object normally. You can also set a password that, when spoken within 5 feet of the object, suppresses this spell for 1 minute. Otherwise, it is impassable until it is broken or the spell is dispelled or suppressed. Casting Knock on the object suppresses Arcane Lock for 10 minutes.
While affected by this spell, the object is more difficult to break or force open; the DC to break it or pick any locks on it increases by 10."
So my question is with a typical locked wooden door is doesn't it just make the DC to break it down or pick the lock 25?
If the door has no lock wouldn't it be DC 25 to break down, but only DC 10 to pick?
And finally a door that's barred on the other side would be DC 30 to break and impossible to pick?
"the DC to break it or pick any locks on it increases by 10."
No, you cannot pick this door open since there are no locks on it. It is a door with no locks which becomes locked for the duration.
I was going off the assumption that a door or container without a lock would still have a handle or latch which could be opened with thieves tools even if magic is stopping the mechanism from functioning normally.
If it didn't have any mechanism wouldn't it just be a strength check of 10 to open since the only thing keeping the object closed is the spell which increases the DC by 10?
It is clearly not intended that an unlocked container becomes harder to open than a locked one while under the effects of this spell.
For that matter, the sentence in the spell "Otherwise, it is impassable until it is broken or the spell is dispelled or suppressed." seems to be incompatible with the later sentence "While affected by this spell, the object is more difficult to break or force open; the DC to break it or pick any locks on it increases by 10."
The only way to reconcile these is to take the first sentence at face value, which is that you must break the thing, dispel or suppress the spell. At that point, whether the thing has its own lock or not is moot or only serves as a red herring: the lock may be harder to pick, but the rest of the effect of the spell is what is keeping you out of the object anyway.
first, the initial difficulty of the door or container has to be established. Most average unlocked objects have a open difficulty is 5 or less ( very easy, no lock ), 5-15 if security is employed ( easy to med diff), or 15 - 20 ( hard ) due to multiple lockout measures.
All arcane lock does is increase the difficulty an individual has to deal with in opening the affected object(s), and turns a simple opening of whatever your trying to get at, into a speed bump.
You can’t pick a door with no physical lock that has been magically locked, you ether have to disperse the spell, or massively overpower it. ( unless the DC is so high, the dm tries to keep you from attempting, and watches you fail stubbornly. )
Magic locks just work differently than non magical types, and really are at the discretion of the dm whether they want you to open what has clearly been a deemed a secure area.
I don't think that we can make this assumption based on the spell description. The way that I read it, we start with the premise that there is a "closed gate, and it becomes locked for the duration". The main idea is that you are locking something that is unlocked -- however, the use of the word "closed" instead of "unlocked" means that both locked and unlocked gates are valid targets.
Now let's create an example. Suppose it's an outdoor swinging gate with no latch that either hangs in place with no resistance or locked with a simple, flimsy padlock. DC 5 to pick the lock and DC 5 to break off the padlock by pushing on the gate itself at which point it can swing open freely. For convenience, let's also suppose that there is another identical swinging gate nearby, but this one has no padlock.
"While affected by this spell, the object is more difficult to break or force open; the DC to break it or pick any locks on it increases by 10"
To me, if we start with Gate #1 in the locked position and Gate #2 in the closed position, we end up with DC 15 to pick and DC 15 to force open Gate #1 and for Gate #2 there is no padlock so it's impossible to pick and it is DC 10 to force it open. In the case of Gate #2 the above assumption was thwarted since the unlocked gate becomes harder to open than the gate which was locked by a simple, non-magical lock. For Gate #2, it would appear as if it was just hanging there, ready to be easily pushed open with minimal force, but it's being magically held shut by the spell to the tune of DC 10.
I agree that some of this is a bit ambiguous though, particularly with how it's unclear if "breaking the object" should be interchangeable with "forcing the object open" or not.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, it's less clear to me what happens if Gate #1 is left in the closed, but unlocked position. Does the spell actually cause the padlock to lock itself, and also strengthen it? In which case we end up back at the final result of DC 15 to pick and DC 15 to force open. Or, does the spell ignore the unlocked lock and just magically hold the gate shut, in which case we have a lock that is impossible to pick (it's already unlocked) and a DC 10 to force the gate open -- basically, it would end up with the same result as Gate #2 which has no padlock at all. I'm not sure which of those makes more sense for the spell description in question.
I wrote something (now deleted), and now I have doubts after reading the last comments.
In my view, if a door doesn't have any lock, the spell is still effective for such doors. One way to open it could be through a successful Strength (Athletics) check. With the spell, the base DC for opening that door should be increased by 10. The base DC must be set by the DM.
For example, to break down a hypothetical wooden door without any locks and without arcane lock the difficulty could be none, and with the spell, therefore, it would be 10.
It's my understanding after seeing these kinds of things in some official modules: