"After assigning your ability scores, adjust them according to your background. Your background lists three abilities; increase one of those scores by 2 and a different one by 1, or increase all three by 1."
Not a fan of my background determining which ability scores I can bump. For example, Criminal has you bump Dex, Con and Int, as if there are no criminals who rely on brawn to get the job done. I know I can hand wave those sorts of things as DM, but I think that is a swing and a miss in terms of design.
And if I hand wave it as a DM, the player will have to override their ability scores because DDB limits your choices for your ability score bump to the options determined by your background. That's a clunky workaround for an unnecessarily limiting feature.
You won't see many fighters picking criminal as a background. And wanna be a farmer who found a spellbook and decided to pursue magic? Well, you won't have a 17 intelligence at the beginning of your career (I guess a farmer with a 17 intelligence can't exist in D&D).
Wanna be a Noble who joined the priesthood? You won't be the wisest in your graduating class, so to speak.
I really think this feature detracts rather than enhances.
You make a good point about this in general. But it looks like the idea was to remove this same issue from the choice of Species. In 2014, each Race and many subraces had specific ability score increases associated with them, making certain Race/Class combinations less desirable in a similar manner that you're describing with the 2024 backgrounds. In order to encourage all manner of Species/Class combinations, this issue was relocated. I personally think that it makes more sense for these things to be associated with the Species, but D&D has been criticized for decades for implying that certain Races are smarter or stronger than others because of what that might imply about races in real life or whatever, so they've been trying really hard to move away from that, for better or worse.
The 2024 DMG will include the Custom Background rules, but for now you can follow the rules for how to customize older backgrounds that are present in the 2024 PHB. Very few older backgrounds included a feat, so on most cases you can tweak them however you want
Yeah, in trying to make a character earlier and this was worse than ability scores being tied to race. Not only are the scores tied to backgrounds but also the feat. I was making a warlock and so I was just like I guess I'm going with musician because it works and the feat isn't bad.
You won't see many fighters picking criminal as a background. And wanna be a farmer who found a spellbook and decided to pursue magic? Well, you won't have a 17 intelligence at the beginning of your career (I guess a farmer with a 17 intelligence can't exist in D&D).
Wanna be a Noble who joined the priesthood? You won't be the wisest in your graduating class, so to speak.
I really think this feature detracts rather than enhances.
While I agree with the logic, a lot of players want to not feel constricted into making particular choices. There wasa lot of push back with ability scores being tied to race / species. While it might be logical that the strongest goliath is stronger than the strongest halfling, that means that many players feel that prevents them playing a halfling barbarian as it was sub optimal.
With the 2024 backgrounds you are not only getting ability score increases but also your feat. If an optimiser wants musician because it is the best feat the only 2024 background available to them is entertainer, I expect a lot of such players will be taking pre 2024 backgrounds as they are so much more flexible than the 2024 backgrounds (at least untoil the 2024 DMG comes out)
You won't see many fighters picking criminal as a background.
Yeah you will -- lots of fighters are dex-primary, and for them it's the best background in the free rules by a fair margin (soldier is the only other one that boosts dex, and alert is a good feat while savage attacker is utter trash).
Currently this is one of the worst changes in 2024. I am a fan of how ToV handles character creation. I will be creating a setup for my players to do something closer to that setup.
Yeah, in trying to make a character earlier and this was worse than ability scores being tied to race. Not only are the scores tied to backgrounds but also the feat. I was making a warlock and so I was just like I guess I'm going with musician because it works and the feat isn't bad.
I agree. It’s not fun being so restricted. I don’t see why ability scores have to be tied to anything, just say “all character get +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1” and leave it at that.
You won't see many fighters picking criminal as a background.
Yeah you will -- lots of fighters are dex-primary, and for them it's the best background in the free rules by a fair margin (soldier is the only other one that boosts dex, and alert is a good feat while savage attacker is utter trash).
You won't see many fighters picking criminal as a background.
Yeah you will -- lots of fighters are dex-primary, and for them it's the best background in the free rules by a fair margin (soldier is the only other one that boosts dex, and alert is a good feat while savage attacker is utter trash).
I don't disagree with your experience - but in the campaigns I have run (since the early 80's) - I can only remember a couple of instances where someone had a Dex-based fighter. In my experience it is VERY rare. But you are mentioning an example of the what I see as a problem rather than my actual point, which is that it's a needless shackling that detracts rather than enhances. Another example: A Noble cleric would not be able to optimize Wisdom at creation.
Once true customizable backgrounds are put out, it'lll be a moot point; I just see it as a swing and a miss.
You won't see many fighters picking criminal as a background. And wanna be a farmer who found a spellbook and decided to pursue magic? Well, you won't have a 17 intelligence at the beginning of your career (I guess a farmer with a 17 intelligence can't exist in D&D).
Wanna be a Noble who joined the priesthood? You won't be the wisest in your graduating class, so to speak.
I really think this feature detracts rather than enhances.
While I agree with the logic, a lot of players want to not feel constricted into making particular choices. There wasa lot of push back with ability scores being tied to race / species. While it might be logical that the strongest goliath is stronger than the strongest halfling, that means that many players feel that prevents them playing a halfling barbarian as it was sub optimal.
With the 2024 backgrounds you are not only getting ability score increases but also your feat. If an optimiser wants musician because it is the best feat the only 2024 background available to them is entertainer, I expect a lot of such players will be taking pre 2024 backgrounds as they are so much more flexible than the 2024 backgrounds (at least untoil the 2024 DMG comes out)
It's like they moved from bioessentialism to classism ;-)
I get why they moved away from tying the bumps to race - that always bugged me in terms of mechanics. I prefer the way they handled it in Tasha's. Simple enough.
That said, I don't even know why they even include them in the first place nowadays - why not just make the standard array higher? Or just eliminate them altogether since every species gets them?
Yeah, I personally feel the Backgrounds are the absolute dumbest change in the 2024 PHB. I'll be sticking to legacy backgrounds.
I am also underwhelmed with the number of choices available - as important as background is to the character creation process, I wish they had put more options in there. I know space is limited, but if it is THAT important, it needs space! I look forward to the release of the DMG!
the race ability score thing wasnt an issue before they released 2024 rules tho since they had the optional rule of just picking whatever ability score you want to put boosts in. not including the same optional rule for backgrounds in 2024 is a giant L as that would solve all the problems. just dont tie the ability score boost to anything and let players choose why they have a +2 to strength its not like you could have worked out your muscles or have found a potion that gave the effect of taking steroids as an acolyte
Tying origin feats to backgrounds is another issue too, on that note. Basically, 5e has grown to the point where background, species, etc didn't necessarily dictate your future; anyone from any origin could grow to greatness. I'd be perfectly fine with certain stat boosts being suggested based on background if you want a close fit, but binding them is wrong.
This is by far the most annoying thing about the 2024 rules.
I understand that it makes backgrounds relevant, and it does makes sense, but it takes away a lot of the customization we've had over the past 5 years.
I loved the optional rules in Tasha's, which not only allowed for customizable backgrounds, but basically said, "put ability scores wherever". This was since copied for every new race up until the new rules were released. This seems to have gone backwards.
I suppose its fine if you're not trying to optimize, if you're happy to play with whatever you have, but a lot of are DO try to optimize. To play with the character we want to play, without having to hold back because the stats don't swing that way.
While I hope that customizable backgrounds will be included, looking at the new DMG, I'm not sure they will. They seem to be under "DM's Toolbox" with the idea that they're the DM's jurisdiction. Which is fine, you should talk to DM when using a custom background, but it probably means there won't be a customization option under the character creator. The only option is making a homebrew. Which can be a rather arduous process if you're not familiar.
The funny thing is, for the past 3-4 years ability scores havent been tied to races/species. Tasha's Cauldron of Everything had an optional rule 'put your ASI's wherever, just think of a reason why your character is different'.
Every new race/species since has had the option "pick either +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 and add to whichever Ability scores you want'.
It may not have been the most creative, but It gave freedom and 'encourage all manner of Species/Class combinations.'
I get that some people like limitations as it may 'encourage more creative storytelling', but me, I like the freedom to come up with weird stuff on my own.
I personally think that they should have kept that method. Let the player come up with reason why his character was harder better faster stronger while being free to choose whatever.
Some people get really up-in-arms about D&D moving even a little bit away from the nature/nurture divide. It was stupid in the 70s and continues to be so now.
Anyway, to address the OP of this thread...in the 2024 PHB rules, you can use the older 2014 backgrounds and apply whatever +2/+1 (or +1/+1/+1) and origin feat you'd like. You can even do this with the 2014 custom background. So the DMG option for custom backgrounds is still effectively accessible. (even if none of that is fully supported on dndbeyond yet.)
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"After assigning your ability scores, adjust them according to your background. Your background lists three abilities; increase one of those scores by 2 and a different one by 1, or increase all three by 1."
Not a fan of my background determining which ability scores I can bump. For example, Criminal has you bump Dex, Con and Int, as if there are no criminals who rely on brawn to get the job done. I know I can hand wave those sorts of things as DM, but I think that is a swing and a miss in terms of design.
And if I hand wave it as a DM, the player will have to override their ability scores because DDB limits your choices for your ability score bump to the options determined by your background. That's a clunky workaround for an unnecessarily limiting feature.
I think they rolled a natural 1 on that.
Just my 2 coppers
You won't see many fighters picking criminal as a background. And wanna be a farmer who found a spellbook and decided to pursue magic? Well, you won't have a 17 intelligence at the beginning of your career (I guess a farmer with a 17 intelligence can't exist in D&D).
Wanna be a Noble who joined the priesthood? You won't be the wisest in your graduating class, so to speak.
I really think this feature detracts rather than enhances.
You make a good point about this in general. But it looks like the idea was to remove this same issue from the choice of Species. In 2014, each Race and many subraces had specific ability score increases associated with them, making certain Race/Class combinations less desirable in a similar manner that you're describing with the 2024 backgrounds. In order to encourage all manner of Species/Class combinations, this issue was relocated. I personally think that it makes more sense for these things to be associated with the Species, but D&D has been criticized for decades for implying that certain Races are smarter or stronger than others because of what that might imply about races in real life or whatever, so they've been trying really hard to move away from that, for better or worse.
The 2024 DMG will include the Custom Background rules, but for now you can follow the rules for how to customize older backgrounds that are present in the 2024 PHB. Very few older backgrounds included a feat, so on most cases you can tweak them however you want
Yeah, in trying to make a character earlier and this was worse than ability scores being tied to race. Not only are the scores tied to backgrounds but also the feat. I was making a warlock and so I was just like I guess I'm going with musician because it works and the feat isn't bad.
While I agree with the logic, a lot of players want to not feel constricted into making particular choices. There wasa lot of push back with ability scores being tied to race / species. While it might be logical that the strongest goliath is stronger than the strongest halfling, that means that many players feel that prevents them playing a halfling barbarian as it was sub optimal.
With the 2024 backgrounds you are not only getting ability score increases but also your feat. If an optimiser wants musician because it is the best feat the only 2024 background available to them is entertainer, I expect a lot of such players will be taking pre 2024 backgrounds as they are so much more flexible than the 2024 backgrounds (at least untoil the 2024 DMG comes out)
Yeah, I personally feel the Backgrounds are the absolute dumbest change in the 2024 PHB. I'll be sticking to legacy backgrounds.
Yeah you will -- lots of fighters are dex-primary, and for them it's the best background in the free rules by a fair margin (soldier is the only other one that boosts dex, and alert is a good feat while savage attacker is utter trash).
Currently this is one of the worst changes in 2024. I am a fan of how ToV handles character creation. I will be creating a setup for my players to do something closer to that setup.
I agree. It’s not fun being so restricted. I don’t see why ability scores have to be tied to anything, just say “all character get +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1” and leave it at that.
I don't disagree with your experience - but in the campaigns I have run (since the early 80's) - I can only remember a couple of instances where someone had a Dex-based fighter. In my experience it is VERY rare. But you are mentioning an example of the what I see as a problem rather than my actual point, which is that it's a needless shackling that detracts rather than enhances. Another example: A Noble cleric would not be able to optimize Wisdom at creation.
Once true customizable backgrounds are put out, it'lll be a moot point; I just see it as a swing and a miss.
It's like they moved from bioessentialism to classism ;-)
I get why they moved away from tying the bumps to race - that always bugged me in terms of mechanics. I prefer the way they handled it in Tasha's. Simple enough.
That said, I don't even know why they even include them in the first place nowadays - why not just make the standard array higher? Or just eliminate them altogether since every species gets them?
Oh well. :-)
I am also underwhelmed with the number of choices available - as important as background is to the character creation process, I wish they had put more options in there. I know space is limited, but if it is THAT important, it needs space! I look forward to the release of the DMG!
the race ability score thing wasnt an issue before they released 2024 rules tho since they had the optional rule of just picking whatever ability score you want to put boosts in. not including the same optional rule for backgrounds in 2024 is a giant L as that would solve all the problems. just dont tie the ability score boost to anything and let players choose why they have a +2 to strength its not like you could have worked out your muscles or have found a potion that gave the effect of taking steroids as an acolyte
Tying origin feats to backgrounds is another issue too, on that note. Basically, 5e has grown to the point where background, species, etc didn't necessarily dictate your future; anyone from any origin could grow to greatness. I'd be perfectly fine with certain stat boosts being suggested based on background if you want a close fit, but binding them is wrong.
This is by far the most annoying thing about the 2024 rules.
I understand that it makes backgrounds relevant, and it does makes sense, but it takes away a lot of the customization we've had over the past 5 years.
I loved the optional rules in Tasha's, which not only allowed for customizable backgrounds, but basically said, "put ability scores wherever". This was since copied for every new race up until the new rules were released. This seems to have gone backwards.
I suppose its fine if you're not trying to optimize, if you're happy to play with whatever you have, but a lot of are DO try to optimize. To play with the character we want to play, without having to hold back because the stats don't swing that way.
While I hope that customizable backgrounds will be included, looking at the new DMG, I'm not sure they will. They seem to be under "DM's Toolbox" with the idea that they're the DM's jurisdiction. Which is fine, you should talk to DM when using a custom background, but it probably means there won't be a customization option under the character creator. The only option is making a homebrew. Which can be a rather arduous process if you're not familiar.
Lets hope I'm wrong.
The funny thing is, for the past 3-4 years ability scores havent been tied to races/species.
Tasha's Cauldron of Everything had an optional rule 'put your ASI's wherever, just think of a reason why your character is different'.
Every new race/species since has had the option "pick either +2/+1 or +1/+1/+1 and add to whichever Ability scores you want'.
It may not have been the most creative, but It gave freedom and 'encourage all manner of Species/Class combinations.'
I get that some people like limitations as it may 'encourage more creative storytelling', but me, I like the freedom to come up with weird stuff on my own.
I personally think that they should have kept that method. Let the player come up with reason why his character was harder better faster stronger while being free to choose whatever.
Some people get really up-in-arms about D&D moving even a little bit away from the nature/nurture divide. It was stupid in the 70s and continues to be so now.
Anyway, to address the OP of this thread...in the 2024 PHB rules, you can use the older 2014 backgrounds and apply whatever +2/+1 (or +1/+1/+1) and origin feat you'd like. You can even do this with the 2014 custom background. So the DMG option for custom backgrounds is still effectively accessible. (even if none of that is fully supported on dndbeyond yet.)