Question: When using the 2024 PHB rules, do wizards (players) need to cast identify when trying to copy other spellbooks?
When creating a Wizard character, the description of the Spellbook reads:
Your wizardly apprenticeship culminated in the creation of a unique book: your spellbook. It is a Tiny object that weighs 3 pounds, contains 100 pages, and can be read only by you or someone casting Identify.
But when you look at the Copying Spells sidebar, it doesn't mention anything about being able to read and copy spells from other spellbook:
Copying a Spell into the Book. When you find a level 1+ Wizard spell, you can copy it into your spellbook if it’s of a level you can prepare and if you have time to copy it. For each level of the spell, the transcription takes 2 hours and costs 50 GP. Afterward you can prepare the spell like the other spells in your spellbook.
So it seems like if there are 2 wizards in the party, they wouldn't be able to copy each other's spells without casting Identify to read their books. But shouldn't this also apply to when they pick up other Spellbooks as loot?
(I have a Scribe Wizard in my group and we're just converting rules over, so I'll need to understand this before we get to that point!)
The sidebar isn’t necessarily exhaustive; in the 2014 edition it didn’t go into detail about copying spell scrolls as that was all in the DMG, so I would expect there may be more details forthcoming.
That said, here’s how I’m running it in the meantime (this is my best interpretation from the limited information available but involves personal choice and preferences so take that as you will): Spellbooks are all encoded and all require Identify to read if not your own. However, if you have access to a wizard, you do not need to read their spellbook in order to learn their spells if they are willing to simply teach you.
The general prerequisite to begin the process seems to be "When you find a level 1+ Wizard spell, you can copy it into your spellbook".
But in 2024 it seems to be implied that the only valid sources of "finding" a spell is from a Spell Scroll magic item, or from a Spellbook or from perhaps some other specific yet to be published official item. Interestingly, the Spellbook has been removed from the general adventuring gear that anyone could buy at a common shop. Instead, the Wizard class states that the Wizard has "created" a "unique book" to be used as your Spellbook (and could potentially do so again to create a backup Spellbook?) . . . for free, I guess? I currently have no idea if the fact that the spellbook is a Tiny object has any mechanical significance.
Anyway, "finding" the spell probably implies that it includes also gaining access to the spell. In the case of the spellbook, it appears that you do have to cast Identify to gain access to the spells in that spellbook. I would not be surprised if when the new DMG comes out that the same thing is true for a Spell Scroll item now.
This change sort of harkens back to the old school Read Magic spell from way back in the day of early versions of D&D.
It's interesting that Identify is not listed as one of the six "recommended" spells for a Level 1 Wizard. It seems pretty essential now!
How might you rule the deduction in time it takes to copy a spell if it was a Scribe Wizard learning a spell from a wizard? If the wizard is TEACHING them the spell, would it not be considered "copying" the spell, and in turn take the normal time (and cost) to learn a new spell?
The sidebar isn’t necessarily exhaustive; in the 2014 edition it didn’t go into detail about copying spell scrolls as that was all in the DMG, so I would expect there may be more details forthcoming.
That said, here’s how I’m running it in the meantime (this is my best interpretation from the limited information available but involves personal choice and preferences so take that as you will): Spellbooks are all encoded and all require Identify to read if not your own. However, if you have access to a wizard, you do not need to read their spellbook in order to learn their spells if they are willing to simply teach you.
How might you rule the deduction in time it takes to copy a spell if it was a Scribe Wizard learning a spell from a wizard? If the wizard is TEACHING them the spell, would it not be considered "copying" the spell, and in turn take the normal time (and cost) to learn a new spell?
How might you rule the deduction in time it takes to copy a spell if it was a Scribe Wizard learning a spell from a wizard? If the wizard is TEACHING them the spell, would it not be considered "copying" the spell, and in turn take the normal time (and cost) to learn a new spell?
As written, the rules really don't provide any mechanic for learning a spell directly from another Wizard, such as through verbal instructions only. If you wanted to allow this as a DM, I could see two reasonable ways to rule it:
1. The Wizardly Quill feature for copying a spell does not apply at all since it needs access to the spell in written form to be able to do its thing. But you could still save 10 gp by using the ink from the Quill to manually scribe the spell. So, scribing a spell would require 2 hours and 40 gp per level.
2. The Wizardly Quill understands the other Wizard's instructions, but must wait for that Wizard to complete his lessons before copying the spell into your spellbook. In that case you would save nearly 1 hour and save 10 gp for the ink. So, scribing a spell would require 1 hour and 2 minutes and 40 gp per level.
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Question: When using the 2024 PHB rules, do wizards (players) need to cast identify when trying to copy other spellbooks?
When creating a Wizard character, the description of the Spellbook reads:
But when you look at the Copying Spells sidebar, it doesn't mention anything about being able to read and copy spells from other spellbook:
So it seems like if there are 2 wizards in the party, they wouldn't be able to copy each other's spells without casting Identify to read their books. But shouldn't this also apply to when they pick up other Spellbooks as loot?
(I have a Scribe Wizard in my group and we're just converting rules over, so I'll need to understand this before we get to that point!)
The sidebar isn’t necessarily exhaustive; in the 2014 edition it didn’t go into detail about copying spell scrolls as that was all in the DMG, so I would expect there may be more details forthcoming.
That said, here’s how I’m running it in the meantime (this is my best interpretation from the limited information available but involves personal choice and preferences so take that as you will): Spellbooks are all encoded and all require Identify to read if not your own. However, if you have access to a wizard, you do not need to read their spellbook in order to learn their spells if they are willing to simply teach you.
This does appear to be the case.
The general prerequisite to begin the process seems to be "When you find a level 1+ Wizard spell, you can copy it into your spellbook".
But in 2024 it seems to be implied that the only valid sources of "finding" a spell is from a Spell Scroll magic item, or from a Spellbook or from perhaps some other specific yet to be published official item. Interestingly, the Spellbook has been removed from the general adventuring gear that anyone could buy at a common shop. Instead, the Wizard class states that the Wizard has "created" a "unique book" to be used as your Spellbook (and could potentially do so again to create a backup Spellbook?) . . . for free, I guess? I currently have no idea if the fact that the spellbook is a Tiny object has any mechanical significance.
Anyway, "finding" the spell probably implies that it includes also gaining access to the spell. In the case of the spellbook, it appears that you do have to cast Identify to gain access to the spells in that spellbook. I would not be surprised if when the new DMG comes out that the same thing is true for a Spell Scroll item now.
This change sort of harkens back to the old school Read Magic spell from way back in the day of early versions of D&D.
It's interesting that Identify is not listed as one of the six "recommended" spells for a Level 1 Wizard. It seems pretty essential now!
How might you rule the deduction in time it takes to copy a spell if it was a Scribe Wizard learning a spell from a wizard? If the wizard is TEACHING them the spell, would it not be considered "copying" the spell, and in turn take the normal time (and cost) to learn a new spell?
How might you rule the deduction in time it takes to copy a spell if it was a Scribe Wizard learning a spell from a wizard? If the wizard is TEACHING them the spell, would it not be considered "copying" the spell, and in turn take the normal time (and cost) to learn a new spell?
As written, the rules really don't provide any mechanic for learning a spell directly from another Wizard, such as through verbal instructions only. If you wanted to allow this as a DM, I could see two reasonable ways to rule it:
1. The Wizardly Quill feature for copying a spell does not apply at all since it needs access to the spell in written form to be able to do its thing. But you could still save 10 gp by using the ink from the Quill to manually scribe the spell. So, scribing a spell would require 2 hours and 40 gp per level.
2. The Wizardly Quill understands the other Wizard's instructions, but must wait for that Wizard to complete his lessons before copying the spell into your spellbook. In that case you would save nearly 1 hour and save 10 gp for the ink. So, scribing a spell would require 1 hour and 2 minutes and 40 gp per level.