So, to address whether Ranger is being hideously shortchanged by the effect- no they aren’t. Both of the secondary options are designed to be situational, and I’m not sure where this idea that subclass is specced for up close work comes from. The only thing that slightly leans towards that is the extra 10ft of movement on the first turn, which is also good for a ranged build that wants to reach cover or kite back away from the front line. Also keep in mind that the subclass already gets a point blank fear option with the Fear spell two levels earlier, so it makes more sense for the feature to be built for hitting targets more than 30 ft out.
The fact that Dreadful Strike states: “When you attack a creature and hit it with a weapon,” means the ability to attack a creature at melee range is a possibility, and using a feature that places an effect on your enemy instead of yourself is idiotic especially if your attacking from a distance that the enemy might not even be able to see you from.
By the time they got to that point, someone had forgotten that attacking at melee range would become an issue, and now a fix is needed. a DM would have to ether houserule the character is unaffected, or force the character to make a save against the character’s own ability. Epic stupidity for a feature that if 5 minutes had been used to proofread, wouldn’t need a debate on how completely ridiculous one word can turn the ability into junk.
If you have to use the ability at a range that doesn’t affect the character class, then how can the effected creatures be freighted of the character and not the actual source of the effect which by RAW is the attacked creature?
Paradox created when attacking in melee range, solution is to make the character class the source of the mass fear effect, and the need for the class to have to make a save against it’s own feature is eliminated.
Piss poor, stupidity designed, and dreadfully mismanaged editing has become the normal for the new rules, and RAW the source of the mass fear effect is the attacked creature not the character. Change one word and the effect still applies when using a ranged weapon, you just have to be a bit closer to a group you want to affect.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
adding to that The_Ace_of_Rogues, they put a "fear" feature in a subclass based on "not being seen", whitout any clause that if you go invisible ior igf they cant see you it keep the condition on, and you can go invisible after making them fear your with any of your features, like walking into the shadows for darkvision creatures, their fear become useless to you and your party since they cant see you anymore
That's not really a gloomstalker problem, that's a problem with the frightened condition in general -- it should really be possible to be frightened of the unknown or unseen, as long as you either don't know where it is, or know it's in a threatening position.
i will keep clearing this out to you, Paradox_Traveler, the feature doenst make the target the source of fear, the RANGER is the source of fear since is the one doing the dreadful strikes that activate the feature. The point of origin is not the same as the source of the feature, as stated with the example of a fear spell that can originate form a "point" and not from a creature, but the source of fear would be the spellcaster, not the "point in space", same here, the origin or "point of origin for the AoE of affected creatures is 10ft around the creature the ranger hits with a dreadful strike, but the source of the fear is the ranger itself
Folk remember that you can disagree on rules without being uncivil to each other.
People can offer different readings of RAW. You can gently point out if you think another user has missed something, but it might be just that you feel there are different readings. This is fine.
You can also acknowledge when rules might say something RAW that doesn't feel right RAI, and that's fine too. RAW might be silly at times. Remember that the point of discussion is not only to say what the RAW is, but also to help each other, and the most helpful answer might be pointing out both RAW and suspected RAI and then leaving the user to make their own choices. This does not have to be an argument to 'win'.
(Also remember that you can edit your quotes to avoid including the entire reply chain. Folk do not need to read half the thread again.)
According to the pre-release video New Ranger | 2024 Player's Handbook (around 24:47), the Gloom Stalker is the source of that fear -- as stated in the rules and by most people in this thread:
[...] they're going to start being even more terrifying at level 11 with their Stalker's Flurry because their Psychic damage goes up so that bursty damage bursts even more and also they can start exuding Mass Fear to all around them [...] they are really terrifying resilient Hunters in the night [...]
Level 11: Stalker's Flurry The Psychic damage of your Dreadful Strikebecomes 2d8. In addition, when you use the Dreadful Strike effect of your Dread Ambusher feature, you can cause one of the following additional effects. Mass Fear.The target and each creature within 10 feet of it must make a Wisdom saving throw against your spell save DC. On a failed save, a creature has the Frightened condition until the start of your next turn. ( italic underlines are the key here.)
That clearly means the effect is coming from the the target of the attack not the caster or the character that made the attack.
"Coming from" is vague. It's centered on the target, but it's still your effect. And in every effect that inflicts frightened I can come up with, the victims are frightened of the person whose effect it is. There is nothing in this ability to make it an exception.
Also, the fact that the target has to make the save reinforces it. As prior discussion in this thread has pointed out, being frightened of yourself is, if not impossible, at the very least extremely mechanically weird.
If you have to save against your own spell DC especially in melee range, then the feature is broken and garbage as it is written. If your 600 feet away whats the point of attempting to frighten creatures that might not even notice you?
You use the other option then.
This one is for when you're breaking concealment, either because you have to or because you want to, and you want to scare off the enemies.
and a simple fix of changing “it” to “you” is the fix that makes the whole thing work the way it should.
Exempting the character (and perhaps their allies) from the effect is the thing that would make it work the way it's supposed to. Having it emanate from the character makes it useless except in melee.
The lack of user protection is an error. They happen.
Exempting the character (and perhaps their allies) from the effect is the thing that would make it work the way it's supposed to. Having it emanate from the character makes it useless except in melee.
The lack of user protection is an error. They happen.
thats the thing, isnt? they didnt add a "clause" i which the ranger isnt affected, i can even let pass the fact that you can affect your allies on this case, they can become frightned of you viewing how you destroy the creature in a dreadful strike, and then the AoE of such effect is the targeted creature, because that's what scare them: viewing how you aggresively hit that creature and remember, dreadful strikes are supposed to be terrifying to see, is not a normal "i stab you with a sword", it can be mosre like a "i stab you and then twist the sword and rip out the guts of such creature in a bloodbath" which then again, you are the cause of the fear because of this, they became afraid of you for watching that, you were the one activating the effect because you were the one dealing the dreadful strike, the creatures around your target will become terrified OF YOU, not the target, since the target can also "die" from your attack since also have the extra damage of the dreadful strike
"If your 600 feet away whats the point of attempting to frighten creatures that might not even notice you?"
Well, there is this thing called surprise, when you attack without being noticed but at the moment you attack they notice you, and the gloomstalker can super-benefit from it in the 1st round of combat. They will obviously notice you since you just hit a creature, and maybe is strategic. you can be at 600ft shooting arrrows, the fighter may be at 50ft from tehm hidding and waiting for them, the wizard may be behind you ready to fireball the rest when they ask for help, but the ones near your target hitted by a dreadfull strikewill be terrified of you, they wouldnt be able to go near you and will have disadvantages fighting any creature until your next turn while youa re within the line of sight, remember, attacking reveal your position, and if it was planned, maybe your allies are surrounding them.
Or if it was a planned kill, you just hit with advantage since were hidding, at 600ft, with extra damage, and outright killed the npc you wanted to kill, and then any creature near that creature can become frightened from you, so they cant go near you, assuring your escape, since they need to be to at least 600ft away, and they have disadvantages on ability checks too, so any other hidden ally will be harder to spot since their perception is now at disadvantage since is a perception check. or if youhave an infiltrated bard or rogue at the place, they can attempt to deceipt them in believing something, and their deception will work better, since the insight and perception of such creatures have disadvantage now
Yeah it is the Ranger's effect, targets are afraid of the ranger. Even if the targetting starts elsewhere, the targeting is for selecting... uh, targets. Not for selecting what they're frightened by.
They're frightened by the ranger. Who is using a fear ability.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
i can imagine the melee Mass fear as Invincible (from the tvshow) hitting an enemy and then after using the feature Dreadful Strike it explodes in a gore mass, so everyone around, even the ranger, get frightened of what the ranger just did, and the ranger goes "i thought you were stronger... i-... im sorry!" and then scares itself from itself
Yes, that was suggested before and if you really want to run your Gloom Stalker like that, nobody's going to stop you (except maybe your GM and the other players at the table if they find it too annoying). However, that doesn't change the fact that it's a very badly-worded ability.
The fact that Dreadful Strike states: “When you attack a creature and hit it with a weapon,” means the ability to attack a creature at melee range is a possibility, and using a feature that places an effect on your enemy instead of yourself is idiotic especially if your attacking from a distance that the enemy might not even be able to see you from.
By the time they got to that point, someone had forgotten that attacking at melee range would become an issue, and now a fix is needed. a DM would have to ether houserule the character is unaffected, or force the character to make a save against the character’s own ability.
Epic stupidity for a feature that if 5 minutes had been used to proofread, wouldn’t need a debate on how completely ridiculous one word can turn the ability into junk.
If you have to use the ability at a range that doesn’t affect the character class, then how can the effected creatures be freighted of the character and not the actual source of the effect which by RAW is the attacked creature?
Paradox created when attacking in melee range, solution is to make the character class the source of the mass fear effect, and the need for the class to have to make a save against it’s own feature is eliminated.
Piss poor, stupidity designed, and dreadfully mismanaged editing has become the normal for the new rules, and RAW the source of the mass fear effect is the attacked creature not the character.
Change one word and the effect still applies when using a ranged weapon, you just have to be a bit closer to a group you want to affect.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
That's not really a gloomstalker problem, that's a problem with the frightened condition in general -- it should really be possible to be frightened of the unknown or unseen, as long as you either don't know where it is, or know it's in a threatening position.
i will keep clearing this out to you, Paradox_Traveler, the feature doenst make the target the source of fear, the RANGER is the source of fear since is the one doing the dreadful strikes that activate the feature. The point of origin is not the same as the source of the feature, as stated with the example of a fear spell that can originate form a "point" and not from a creature, but the source of fear would be the spellcaster, not the "point in space", same here, the origin or "point of origin for the AoE of affected creatures is 10ft around the creature the ranger hits with a dreadful strike, but the source of the fear is the ranger itself
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ModeratorFolk remember that you can disagree on rules without being uncivil to each other.
People can offer different readings of RAW. You can gently point out if you think another user has missed something, but it might be just that you feel there are different readings. This is fine.
You can also acknowledge when rules might say something RAW that doesn't feel right RAI, and that's fine too. RAW might be silly at times. Remember that the point of discussion is not only to say what the RAW is, but also to help each other, and the most helpful answer might be pointing out both RAW and suspected RAI and then leaving the user to make their own choices. This does not have to be an argument to 'win'.
(Also remember that you can edit your quotes to avoid including the entire reply chain. Folk do not need to read half the thread again.)
D&D Beyond ToS || D&D Beyond Support
According to the pre-release video New Ranger | 2024 Player's Handbook (around 24:47), the Gloom Stalker is the source of that fear -- as stated in the rules and by most people in this thread:
"Coming from" is vague. It's centered on the target, but it's still your effect. And in every effect that inflicts frightened I can come up with, the victims are frightened of the person whose effect it is. There is nothing in this ability to make it an exception.
Also, the fact that the target has to make the save reinforces it. As prior discussion in this thread has pointed out, being frightened of yourself is, if not impossible, at the very least extremely mechanically weird.
You use the other option then.
This one is for when you're breaking concealment, either because you have to or because you want to, and you want to scare off the enemies.
Exempting the character (and perhaps their allies) from the effect is the thing that would make it work the way it's supposed to. Having it emanate from the character makes it useless except in melee.
The lack of user protection is an error. They happen.
thats the thing, isnt? they didnt add a "clause" i which the ranger isnt affected, i can even let pass the fact that you can affect your allies on this case, they can become frightned of you viewing how you destroy the creature in a dreadful strike, and then the AoE of such effect is the targeted creature, because that's what scare them: viewing how you aggresively hit that creature and remember, dreadful strikes are supposed to be terrifying to see, is not a normal "i stab you with a sword", it can be mosre like a "i stab you and then twist the sword and rip out the guts of such creature in a bloodbath" which then again, you are the cause of the fear because of this, they became afraid of you for watching that, you were the one activating the effect because you were the one dealing the dreadful strike, the creatures around your target will become terrified OF YOU, not the target, since the target can also "die" from your attack since also have the extra damage of the dreadful strike
"If your 600 feet away whats the point of attempting to frighten creatures that might not even notice you?"
Well, there is this thing called surprise, when you attack without being noticed but at the moment you attack they notice you, and the gloomstalker can super-benefit from it in the 1st round of combat. They will obviously notice you since you just hit a creature, and maybe is strategic. you can be at 600ft shooting arrrows, the fighter may be at 50ft from tehm hidding and waiting for them, the wizard may be behind you ready to fireball the rest when they ask for help, but the ones near your target hitted by a dreadfull strike will be terrified of you, they wouldnt be able to go near you and will have disadvantages fighting any creature until your next turn while youa re within the line of sight, remember, attacking reveal your position, and if it was planned, maybe your allies are surrounding them.
Or if it was a planned kill, you just hit with advantage since were hidding, at 600ft, with extra damage, and outright killed the npc you wanted to kill, and then any creature near that creature can become frightened from you, so they cant go near you, assuring your escape, since they need to be to at least 600ft away, and they have disadvantages on ability checks too, so any other hidden ally will be harder to spot since their perception is now at disadvantage since is a perception check. or if youhave an infiltrated bard or rogue at the place, they can attempt to deceipt them in believing something, and their deception will work better, since the insight and perception of such creatures have disadvantage now
Yeah it is the Ranger's effect, targets are afraid of the ranger. Even if the targetting starts elsewhere, the targeting is for selecting... uh, targets. Not for selecting what they're frightened by.
They're frightened by the ranger. Who is using a fear ability.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Welp, the errata came out and they didnt touch the Gloomstalker's Mass fear, so i think is RAI that it can scare itself from irself
I guess more errata are baking in the oven (though maybe not this one—who knows)
Also, this is a minor* one that may not have reached their awareness. (They don't read the DDB forums.)
* Yes, it's minor. Almost any DM that actually notices will ignore it.
The lack of errata does not rai make.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Honestly, it needs to be stripped from where it is and just made into a feature of the sub-class.
That way they could just make it do whatever, and then it would work however.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
What needs to be stripped? We’re already discussing a subclass feature.
i can imagine the melee Mass fear as Invincible (from the tvshow) hitting an enemy and then after using the feature Dreadful Strike it explodes in a gore mass, so everyone around, even the ranger, get frightened of what the ranger just did, and the ranger goes "i thought you were stronger... i-... im sorry!" and then scares itself from itself
Yes, that was suggested before and if you really want to run your Gloom Stalker like that, nobody's going to stop you (except maybe your GM and the other players at the table if they find it too annoying). However, that doesn't change the fact that it's a very badly-worded ability.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.