Ideally my fighter will be casting 8th level Conjure Minor Elementals from an Enspelled Weapon
Is this possible Rules As Written?(Does it count a basic 8th level spell for the purpose of casting with a Magic Item)
While that spell is, in general, eligible for use in that item, there's a general rule about magic items in the Dungeon Master's Guide that says that when a spell is cast from a magic item it is "cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level". This would mean that an Enspelled Weapon would always be casting that particular spell at 4th level.
It's important to remember that "upcasting" is an unofficial term used by the community. The actual concept within the rules is casting "with a higher level spell slot", and so you have to actually use a higher level spell slot to get those benefits. They generally don't apply when you cast a spell without using a spell slot at all.
The spell is determined when the weapon is created and must belong to the Conjuration, Divination, Evocation, Necromancy, or Transmutation school of magic.
So, if the weapon was created using that spell at that level, I think it's fine.
EDIT: but if the weapon was created with Conjure Minor Elementals at 4th level, then you cannot use the spell at 8th level.
All right. It doesn’t work for Enspelled Weapon, but the rules for Ring of Spell Storing allow it. Are there any other items that work like Ring of Spell Storing but of a higher level?
All right. It doesn’t work for Enspelled Weapon, but the rules for Ring of Spell Storing allow it. Are there any other items that work like Ring of Spell Storing but of a higher level?
The same rules apply to the Ring of Spell Storing. The level of the spell cast from the ring is the level it was used when originally stored in the ring:
While wearing this ring, you can cast any spell stored in it. The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell attack bonus, and spellcasting ability of the original caster but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell.
All right. It doesn’t work for Enspelled Weapon, but the rules for Ring of Spell Storing allow it. Are there any other items that work like Ring of Spell Storing but of a higher level?
The same rules apply to the Ring of Spell Storing. The level of the spell cast from the ring is the level it was used when originally stored in the ring:
While wearing this ring, you can cast any spell stored in it. The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell attack bonus, and spellcasting ability of the original caster but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell.
Yes, but that's not how an Enspelled Weapon gets "enspelled", so that's not relevant here.
All right. It doesn’t work for Enspelled Weapon, but the rules for Ring of Spell Storing allow it. Are there any other items that work like Ring of Spell Storing but of a higher level?
The same rules apply to the Ring of Spell Storing. The level of the spell cast from the ring is the level it was used when originally stored in the ring:
While wearing this ring, you can cast any spell stored in it. The spell uses the slot level, spell save DC, spell attack bonus, and spellcasting ability of the original caster but is otherwise treated as if you cast the spell.
Yes, but that's not how an Enspelled Weapon gets "enspelled", so that's not relevant here.
All right. It doesn’t work for Enspelled Weapon, but the rules for Ring of Spell Storing allow it. Are there any other items that work like Ring of Spell Storing but of a higher level?
Nope, and FYI most DMs are probably going to be banning or modifying CME because it is obviously broken. Any DM that would allow a Fighter to be able to cast CME at 8th level in any manner will be heavily HBing the game to make everyone an every monster extremely powerful so just go find one of those and you're good.
Can I just confirm that cantrips that increase in potency based on character level would do so regardless of the user?
So a lvl 5 fighter could use Eldritch Blast with 2 beams?
When cast by the Fighter themselves, yes. When cast from an Enspelled Weapon, no, I don't think so. The general rule for spells being cast from items says that the spell "is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level" unless the item says otherwise, which Enspelled Weapon does not.
Can I just confirm that cantrips that increase in potency based on character level would do so regardless of the user?
So a lvl 5 fighter could use Eldritch Blast with 2 beams?
When cast by the Fighter themselves, yes. When cast from an Enspelled Weapon, no, I don't think so. The general rule for spells being cast from items says that the spell "is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level" unless the item says otherwise, which Enspelled Weapon does not.
What about crafting a Enspelled Weapon yourself, and using Eldritch Blast at level 5 every day you spend crafting the item?
Similarly to how homemade scrolls are crafted when using Cantrips:
Cantrips If the scribed spell is a cantrip, the version on the scroll works as if the caster were your level.
Can I just confirm that cantrips that increase in potency based on character level would do so regardless of the user?
So a lvl 5 fighter could use Eldritch Blast with 2 beams?
When cast by the Fighter themselves, yes. When cast from an Enspelled Weapon, no, I don't think so. The general rule for spells being cast from items says that the spell "is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level" unless the item says otherwise, which Enspelled Weapon does not.
What about crafting a Enspelled Weapon yourself, and using Eldritch Blast at level 5 every day you spend crafting the item?
Similarly to how homemade scrolls are crafted when using Cantrips:
Cantrips If the scribed spell is a cantrip, the version on the scroll works as if the caster were your level.
That would be a way that an item could work, but it's not the way Enspelled Weapon works according to RAW. The item description doesn't make any mention of using the stats of the person who created it the way that the description of Spell Scrolls does.
There are magical items that allow spells to be cast at a higher level (e.g., staff of power, staff of the magi). Given the enspelled item descriptions, I believe it would be DM prerogative whether spells could be stored at an upcast level. Frankly, you are already dealing with items that effectively allow any caster to cast a spell not on their class list, so this does not feel like a stretch.
I don’t think Cantrips operate the same way as 1+ Spells. Cantrips automatically do more damage based on the character’s level, and they don’t have an option for casting from a higher spell slot. It’s more so that the caster has so much practice with a 0-Level Spell that they naturally gain proficiency/expertise/mastery with it.
Furthermore, Cantrip strength is based on Character Level, not Caster Level. Just dipping one level into Wizard 1, a Monk 19 would cast any Damaging Cantrip as a Level 20 Character, not a Level 1 Wizard.
Without further direction from WotC, I think a lot of these problems are going to require Homebrew solutions. Guess we will have to wait and see how they handle these things in official campaigns.
“While attuned to the Artifact, you can cast one level 4 spell (chosen by the DM) from it. After you cast the spell, roll 1d6. On a roll of 1–5, you can’t cast it again in this way until the next dawn.”
It says nothing about the spell being cast at its lowest level. All it says is “one Level 4 spell.” Regardless of whether a level 4 spell is the lowest level of that spell, it it is an “upcast” version of a lower level spell, a level 4 spell is a level 4 spell.
“While attuned to the Artifact, you can cast one level 4 spell (chosen by the DM) from it. After you cast the spell, roll 1d6. On a roll of 1–5, you can’t cast it again in this way until the next dawn.”
It says nothing about the spell being cast at its lowest level. All it says is “one Level 4 spell.” Regardless of whether a level 4 spell is the lowest level of that spell, it it is an “upcast” version of a lower level spell, a level 4 spell is a level 4 spell.
Okay? I don't think that's what that means, but I also don't think it's really relevant to what we were discussing in this thread nine months ago.
Wait, this may be off topic, but can you have a spell scroll of ninth-level conjure minor elementals?
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"The Biggest problem D&D player face is their own bad decisions." "What doesn't kill you makes you more likely to die."- Thauraeln_The_Bol "Well, hey, if it ain't broke, then break it!"Former_Queen_Yvonne See my homebrew spells, monsters, and this thread part of the cult of science, and the Cult of the Nothic, and plays on Tenbrae Sine Fine Please help us!!! (Link) Nickname is Colton. PM ME THE WORD TOMATO. The best name for the mad gibber
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Ideally my fighter will be casting 8th level Conjure Minor Elementals from an Enspelled Weapon
Is this possible Rules As Written?(Does it count a basic 8th level spell for the purpose of casting with a Magic Item)
While that spell is, in general, eligible for use in that item, there's a general rule about magic items in the Dungeon Master's Guide that says that when a spell is cast from a magic item it is "cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level". This would mean that an Enspelled Weapon would always be casting that particular spell at 4th level.
It's important to remember that "upcasting" is an unofficial term used by the community. The actual concept within the rules is casting "with a higher level spell slot", and so you have to actually use a higher level spell slot to get those benefits. They generally don't apply when you cast a spell without using a spell slot at all.
pronouns: he/she/they
The Magic Item states:
So, if the weapon was created using that spell at that level, I think it's fine.
EDIT: but if the weapon was created with Conjure Minor Elementals at 4th level, then you cannot use the spell at 8th level.
Some related posts:
Yes normally a spell its cast at its minimun level on an item if the level its not indicated anywhere.
If you create a legendary enspelled weapon of C.M.E. with and 8th lvl slot, then sure, it could work.
All right. It doesn’t work for Enspelled Weapon, but the rules for Ring of Spell Storing allow it.
Are there any other items that work like Ring of Spell Storing but of a higher level?
The same rules apply to the Ring of Spell Storing. The level of the spell cast from the ring is the level it was used when originally stored in the ring:
Yes, but that's not how an Enspelled Weapon gets "enspelled", so that's not relevant here.
pronouns: he/she/they
Fair enough.
Nope, and FYI most DMs are probably going to be banning or modifying CME because it is obviously broken. Any DM that would allow a Fighter to be able to cast CME at 8th level in any manner will be heavily HBing the game to make everyone an every monster extremely powerful so just go find one of those and you're good.
Can I just confirm that cantrips that increase in potency based on character level would do so regardless of the user?
So a lvl 5 fighter could use Eldritch Blast with 2 beams?
When cast by the Fighter themselves, yes. When cast from an Enspelled Weapon, no, I don't think so. The general rule for spells being cast from items says that the spell "is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level" unless the item says otherwise, which Enspelled Weapon does not.
pronouns: he/she/they
What about crafting a Enspelled Weapon yourself, and using Eldritch Blast at level 5 every day you spend crafting the item?
Similarly to how homemade scrolls are crafted when using Cantrips:
That would be a way that an item could work, but it's not the way Enspelled Weapon works according to RAW. The item description doesn't make any mention of using the stats of the person who created it the way that the description of Spell Scrolls does.
pronouns: he/she/they
Yeah, that's true, but I was thinking about using the Crafting Magic Items from the 2024 DMG:
It was just a random thought, anyways :D Thanks for your time!
There are magical items that allow spells to be cast at a higher level (e.g., staff of power, staff of the magi). Given the enspelled item descriptions, I believe it would be DM prerogative whether spells could be stored at an upcast level. Frankly, you are already dealing with items that effectively allow any caster to cast a spell not on their class list, so this does not feel like a stretch.
I don’t think Cantrips operate the same way as 1+ Spells. Cantrips automatically do more damage based on the character’s level, and they don’t have an option for casting from a higher spell slot. It’s more so that the caster has so much practice with a 0-Level Spell that they naturally gain proficiency/expertise/mastery with it.
Furthermore, Cantrip strength is based on Character Level, not Caster Level. Just dipping one level into Wizard 1, a Monk 19 would cast any Damaging Cantrip as a Level 20 Character, not a Level 1 Wizard.
Without further direction from WotC, I think a lot of these problems are going to require Homebrew solutions. Guess we will have to wait and see how they handle these things in official campaigns.
Artifacts don’t seem to adopt the “general rule” you pointed out.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/dmg-2024/treasure#CraftingMagicItems
Artifacts, Major Benefits, a roll of 51-60:
“While attuned to the Artifact, you can cast one level 4 spell (chosen by the DM) from it. After you cast the spell, roll 1d6. On a roll of 1–5, you can’t cast it again in this way until the next dawn.”
It says nothing about the spell being cast at its lowest level. All it says is “one Level 4 spell.” Regardless of whether a level 4 spell is the lowest level of that spell, it it is an “upcast” version of a lower level spell, a level 4 spell is a level 4 spell.
Okay? I don't think that's what that means, but I also don't think it's really relevant to what we were discussing in this thread nine months ago.
pronouns: he/she/they
Wait, this may be off topic, but can you have a spell scroll of ninth-level conjure minor elementals?
"The Biggest problem D&D player face is their own bad decisions." "What doesn't kill you makes you more likely to die."- Thauraeln_The_Bol "Well, hey, if it ain't broke, then break it!"Former_Queen_Yvonne
See my homebrew spells, monsters, and this thread
part of the cult of science, and the Cult of the Nothic, and plays on Tenbrae Sine Fine
Please help us!!! (Link) Nickname is Colton. PM ME THE WORD TOMATO.
The best name for the mad gibber