Using 5-foot squares, does cloud of daggers affect a single square?
Cloud of daggers (5 ft. cube) can affect more than one square on a grid, unless the DM says effects snap to the grid. There are many ways to position that cube.
The new (2024) DMG says that "[I]f an area of effect covers half a square or hex, the entire square or hex is affected."
So no, by default a 5' cube effect does not cover 4 squares, because if you tried to do that, then you'd cover each by less than half. You might be able to get 2 squares with a 5' cube. Of course, your DM may not use those rules in the DMG, and as TarodNet pointed out, there are many ways to adjudicate this.
The new (2024) DMG says that "[I]f an area of effect covers half a square or hex, the entire square or hex is affected."
So no, by default a 5' cube effect does not cover 4 squares, because if you tried to do that, then you'd cover each by less than half. You might be able to get 2 squares with a 5' cube. Of course, your DM may not use those rules in the DMG, and as TarodNet pointed out, there are many ways to adjudicate this.
If you're using a map with squares, radius spells center on an intersection, cube spells snap to grid. Thus, it affects one square.
While this is certainly a method you can use at your table, it is not what the actual rules say. The Dungeon Master's Guide says this:
If the area [of effect] has a point of origin, choose an intersection of squares or hexes to be the point of origin, then follow its rules as normal.
This quote is taken from the 2024 DMG, but the 2014 version is essentially identical. The idea that Cube areas of effect "snap to grid" is not mentioned. Under the actual rules, a Cube area's origin point is a point of your choice along one side of the cube, and placing such a point at an intersection on a grid map allows targeting either one or two squares.
It's also worth pointing out again that having anything snap to grid intersections or squares is an optional rule in 5e.
It's also worth pointing out again that having anything snap to grid intersections or squares is an optional rule in 5e.
Sure... but if you're using a map grid for creatures, it applies to spells as well. There is no intermediate "some things follow the grid, other things don't".
I think that is the wrong conclusion to make considering the rules for entering square in the "Playing on a grid" sidebar. Each square is 5' and you use 5' to enter one from an adjacent one.
Whereas, the rules for areas are definite about placing the origin at an intersection, sometimes that means the area will snap to grid (i.e. for round areas, since their origin is at their center) but sometimes they will not when you can choose where to place the origin, like with cubes -- the example here.
And I also don't think it tracks with the way the creature sizes on squares section works either.
I was trying to explain some things when posting my first reply, but I didn't have enough time to do so. Let me now add a picture with some options to position Cloud of Daggers:
I believe the first option is not right according to the point of origin rules for Cube and Areas of Effect, but I'd like to know your opinions. But if it's correct, following the 2024 DMG rules, no squares are affected for the reasons @WolfOfTheBeesmentioned.
Second and third options are possible (am I right?), affecting one or two squares respectively.
And just to add that different number of squares would be affected if following the rules in XGtE (p. 86, Areas of Effect on a Grid):
If any part of a square is under the template, that square is included in the area of effect. If a creature's miniature is in an affected square, that creature is in the area. Being adjacent to the edge of the template isn't enough for a square to be included in the area of effect; the square must be entirely or partly covered by the template.
I was trying to explain some things when posting my first reply, but I didn't have enough time to do so. Let me now add a picture with some options to position Cloud of Daggers:
I believe the first option is not right according to the point of origin rules for Cube and Areas of Effect, but I'd like to know your opinions. But if it's correct, following the 2024 DMG rules, no squares are affected for the reasons @WolfOfTheBeesmentioned.
Second and third options are possible (am I right?), affecting one or two squares respectively.
And just to add that different number of squares would be affected if following the rules in XGtE (p. 86, Areas of Effect on a Grid):
If any part of a square is under the template, that square is included in the area of effect. If a creature's miniature is in an affected square, that creature is in the area. Being adjacent to the edge of the template isn't enough for a square to be included in the area of effect; the square must be entirely or partly covered by the template.
Yeah, that's my understanding of the RAW here.
Personally, I prefer the XGtE version, which would allow placing a 5' Cube on an intersection to affect four squares. This mostly turns a Cube into a Sphere, but in general I don't think there's much value in having separate Cube and Sphere area types.
I believe that the first placement is fair because you could simply place the origin in the center of the bottom face, and put that on the intersection of grid points. Including XGtE rules and other options, you may have multiple ways to adjudicate this. With the DMG rule and the first placement, no squares are covered. On the other hand with the template rule, all would be covered. But the template rule doesn't require that the origin be at the intersection of grid points anymore anyway.
I believe that the first placement is fair because you could simply place the origin in the center of the bottom face, and put that on the intersection of grid points. [...]
Definitely the token method would indicate this is a single square too. From templates to half-rule to tokens to snap to grid you get 3 different completely rules supported answers to this question, so it is really going to be up to the table you play at, as the first reply from wagnarokrr said.
Aligned to grid in one direction, split in the other direction. So it covers, say, 3 columns exactly, but covers half the top, two full, and half the bottom rows.
Spells with shape of a cube, its normal to center it on an intersection
and hit 4 squares right (for 5' cube spells)?
If you put it on an intersection, yes, it would hit four squares.
Keep in mind that grids are an optional rule in D&D and it's ultimately up to the DM to decide where exactly you can place effects like this.
pronouns: he/she/they
EDIT: nevermind.
If it's useful, from the SAC:
Using 5-foot squares, does cloud of daggers affect a single square?
Cloud of daggers (5 ft. cube) can affect more than one square on a grid, unless the DM says effects snap to the grid. There are many ways to position that cube.
The new (2024) DMG says that "[I]f an area of effect covers half a square or hex, the entire square or hex is affected."
So no, by default a 5' cube effect does not cover 4 squares, because if you tried to do that, then you'd cover each by less than half. You might be able to get 2 squares with a 5' cube. Of course, your DM may not use those rules in the DMG, and as TarodNet pointed out, there are many ways to adjudicate this.
Ah yes 2 squares makes more sense, thanks!
If you're using a map with squares, radius spells center on an intersection, cube spells snap to grid. Thus, it affects one square.
While this is certainly a method you can use at your table, it is not what the actual rules say. The Dungeon Master's Guide says this:
If the area [of effect] has a point of origin, choose an intersection of squares or hexes to be the point of origin, then follow its rules as normal.
This quote is taken from the 2024 DMG, but the 2014 version is essentially identical. The idea that Cube areas of effect "snap to grid" is not mentioned. Under the actual rules, a Cube area's origin point is a point of your choice along one side of the cube, and placing such a point at an intersection on a grid map allows targeting either one or two squares.
It's also worth pointing out again that having anything snap to grid intersections or squares is an optional rule in 5e.
pronouns: he/she/they
Sure... but if you're using a map grid for creatures, it applies to spells as well. There is no intermediate "some things follow the grid, other things don't".
I think that is the wrong conclusion to make considering the rules for entering square in the "Playing on a grid" sidebar. Each square is 5' and you use 5' to enter one from an adjacent one.
Whereas, the rules for areas are definite about placing the origin at an intersection, sometimes that means the area will snap to grid (i.e. for round areas, since their origin is at their center) but sometimes they will not when you can choose where to place the origin, like with cubes -- the example here.
And I also don't think it tracks with the way the creature sizes on squares section works either.
As DM i'm Playing on a Grid where each square represents 5 feet, including areas of effects.
So Cloud of Daggers cover 1 square.
I was trying to explain some things when posting my first reply, but I didn't have enough time to do so. Let me now add a picture with some options to position Cloud of Daggers:
I believe the first option is not right according to the point of origin rules for Cube and Areas of Effect, but I'd like to know your opinions. But if it's correct, following the 2024 DMG rules, no squares are affected for the reasons @WolfOfTheBees mentioned.
Second and third options are possible (am I right?), affecting one or two squares respectively.
And just to add that different number of squares would be affected if following the rules in XGtE (p. 86, Areas of Effect on a Grid):
Yeah, that's my understanding of the RAW here.
Personally, I prefer the XGtE version, which would allow placing a 5' Cube on an intersection to affect four squares. This mostly turns a Cube into a Sphere, but in general I don't think there's much value in having separate Cube and Sphere area types.
pronouns: he/she/they
I believe that the first placement is fair because you could simply place the origin in the center of the bottom face, and put that on the intersection of grid points. Including XGtE rules and other options, you may have multiple ways to adjudicate this. With the DMG rule and the first placement, no squares are covered. On the other hand with the template rule, all would be covered. But the template rule doesn't require that the origin be at the intersection of grid points anymore anyway.
That's a good observation!
I would clean up all stunts like this by changing the rule from "half the square" to "more than half the square".
Likewise, given snap to grid i have Thunderwave cover 9 squares, not 12 for example.
Definitely the token method would indicate this is a single square too. From templates to half-rule to tokens to snap to grid you get 3 different completely rules supported answers to this question, so it is really going to be up to the table you play at, as the first reply from wagnarokrr said.
I would do 9 as well, how do you get 12 though?
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Aligned to grid in one direction, split in the other direction. So it covers, say, 3 columns exactly, but covers half the top, two full, and half the bottom rows.
It's fairly easy to make it cover a 3x4 area with half squares. You can also make it cover a 4x4 area leaving out the corners (also 12 squares).