"Resistance to non-magical damage" has basically been replaced by resistance to bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing. And the ability to get past that resistance is now "use one of the other damage types." Commonly, this is Force now (though it can be any of the other ones) --- for example, Shillelagh lets you do Force damage, and True Strike does Radiant damage, etc.
The only thing that's really lost is there being a "default" way around these resistances by using generic +1/+2/+3 weapons. Which makes said weapons feel less required to progress. I think they are also making those resistances more rare, so as to "punish" martial characters a little less.
I'm on the fence. On one hand, they instead increased their hit points i believe to compensate, so while the end may not be that very different, it guarantee everyone can do damage at their full potential.
On the other hand, i'm so used to vulnerability, resistance and immunity to damage from silver or magical weapons that removing such weakness particularity that made certain weapons coveted seems lost now. A silver longsword no longer have additional benefit over a steel one.
A silver longsword no longer have additional benefit over a steel one.
"An alchemical process has bonded silver to this magic weapon. When you score a Critical Hit with it against a creature that is shape-shifted, the weapon deals one additional die of damage."
A silver longsword no longer have additional benefit over a steel one.
"An alchemical process has bonded silver to this magic weapon. When you score a Critical Hit with it against a creature that is shape-shifted, the weapon deals one additional die of damage."
I wasn't talking about magic weapons but nonmagical silver or adamantine weapons that used to act differently against some creatures.
But they were made into magic items instead i guess.
I wasn't talking about magic weapons but nonmagical silver or adamantine weapons that used to act differently against some creatures.
But they were made into magic items instead i guess.
Yeah, but honestly, the fact that they are 'magic' has minimal bearing outside Adventurer's League (where the number of magic items a character can use is strictly limited).
Characters can craft them with just the additional requirement of Arcana proficiency.
I will admit to being a bit ambivalent about how the effects of silver weapons have changed. On the one hand, having something that has existed for 50 years changed feels very off. On the other hand, having been in the position occasionally of 'you don't have what you need to hurt this creature,' it always sucked to be in that position.
The Dungeon Dudes dropped a video on this topic today, and I like their take on the topic. In general, I feel that resistance to non-magical weapons is moot beyond a certain level, and so as the dudes mention, this can be completely accounted for by just adding some HP to monsters. This is actually much cleaner design as well because the monster's lifetime won't swing wildly from table to table with the availability of magic items. It makes it a lot easier to balance what the monster might be able to do in a particular combat.
I personally don't like immunity at all, I think it isn't interesting, but that is an opinion.
I guess this will affect martials (EDIT: especially Rogues and Fighters) to some degree?
And I'm wondering if one of the reasons behind this change could be related to the occasional discussion about determining whether something is magical or not to bypass resistances.
Also, now changes in Monk's strikes or Primal Order make more sense.
Resistance B/P/S more impactful at low level, by Tier 2 end, martial characters generally have magic weapons anyways, unless playing low fantasy magic campaign style.
Yeah, it seems it's better now to gift your players "real" magical weapons instead of the classic vanilla “+X” weapon, like Flame Tongue, Dwarven Thrower or Frost Brand
Overall I am not that bothered, it was just tacked on reams of creatures. But in some cases I'd of doubled down on it as their resistance or immunity is so core to their identity. Werewolves and silver being the easy example. I'd of made them immune to even magical weapons and just made it silver. Have a list of enemies in their own category like beasts/fiends etc that are only intended to be used as a story point of players researching their weaknesses. A these are not trash mobs, or random encounters they are only meant to be used as special enemies that the players have to figure out how to defeat. I don't care if its magical but your club is hitting a shadow and hurting it, that seems weird to me.
Honestly, my biggest issue with the change is the verisimilitude impact. One of the narrative roles of the resistances/immunities to mundane weapons is to explain why adventurers have such a prominent niche in the setting rather than conventional armed forces: there's a lot of stuff that can shrug off a typical sword or spear blow and magic/silvered weapons aren't practical to be deployed on any kind of large scale. Thus the market for roving, properly equipped specialists to deal with these things. Bolstering HP can potentially present a similar dynamic, but it's less obvious because now it's couched in the crunch of HP to expected DPR rather than an overt "basic weapons do half damage or don't work", and for the ones who were outright immune to non-magic PSB there's no way to get around the fact that throwing bodies at them has suddenly become infinitely more viable. Not game-ending, but sometimes I worry we're losing a lot of support for the "roleplay" part of "world's greatest roleplaying game".
Yeah, sometimes simplifying game mechanics affects narrative or worldbuilding.
Off-topic, but it stung a little to see psionics as a term isn't present in the 2024 MM, and only appears briefly for monsters (e.g. Githyanki or Thri-kreen)
Taking away silver vulnerability (if nothing else) takes the entire concept of the creature that has existed in folklore for literal CENTURIES and kicks it in the nards.
Give them Resistance to non-magical melee-type damage... SOMEthing... but the concept that I read somewhere that this was done to make them somehow TOUGHER is laughable.
Taking away silver vulnerability (if nothing else) takes the entire concept of the creature that has existed in folklore for literal CENTURIES and kicks it in the nards.
Give them Resistance to non-magical melee-type damage... SOMEthing... but the concept that I read somewhere that this was done to make them somehow TOUGHER is laughable.
Which creature- lycanthropes? That wasn't a centuries old trope actually. Universal Horror threw it in since by the time they made their movie guns were too good at killing anything man-sized. Plus probably just to add to the drama a bit.
It older than that. It became more common/widespread due to movies. but silver as a anti-magic/magical monster metal including werewolves goes back hundreds of years.
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Some monsters in the updated manual no longer have certain resistances or immunities. Examples are below...
Shadows in 2014 monster manual were resistant to attacks from weapons that were not magical. Shadows in 2024 now take regular damage.
Werewolves in 2014 monster manual were immune to attacks from weapons that were not silvered. Werewolves in 2024 now take regular damage.
Cheers or jeers about these enemies among others now being susceptible to regular damage?
Yeah...I kinda don't like it.
"Resistance to non-magical damage" has basically been replaced by resistance to bludgeoning, slashing, and piercing. And the ability to get past that resistance is now "use one of the other damage types." Commonly, this is Force now (though it can be any of the other ones) --- for example, Shillelagh lets you do Force damage, and True Strike does Radiant damage, etc.
The only thing that's really lost is there being a "default" way around these resistances by using generic +1/+2/+3 weapons. Which makes said weapons feel less required to progress. I think they are also making those resistances more rare, so as to "punish" martial characters a little less.
I'm on the fence. On one hand, they instead increased their hit points i believe to compensate, so while the end may not be that very different, it guarantee everyone can do damage at their full potential.
On the other hand, i'm so used to vulnerability, resistance and immunity to damage from silver or magical weapons that removing such weakness particularity that made certain weapons coveted seems lost now. A silver longsword no longer have additional benefit over a steel one.
"An alchemical process has bonded silver to this magic weapon. When you score a Critical Hit with it against a creature that is shape-shifted, the weapon deals one additional die of damage."
I wasn't talking about magic weapons but nonmagical silver or adamantine weapons that used to act differently against some creatures.
But they were made into magic items instead i guess.
Yeah, but honestly, the fact that they are 'magic' has minimal bearing outside Adventurer's League (where the number of magic items a character can use is strictly limited).
Characters can craft them with just the additional requirement of Arcana proficiency.
I will admit to being a bit ambivalent about how the effects of silver weapons have changed. On the one hand, having something that has existed for 50 years changed feels very off. On the other hand, having been in the position occasionally of 'you don't have what you need to hurt this creature,' it always sucked to be in that position.
I like it because now we are more free for true random treasure generation instead depending so much on magical weapons to advance.
The Dungeon Dudes dropped a video on this topic today, and I like their take on the topic. In general, I feel that resistance to non-magical weapons is moot beyond a certain level, and so as the dudes mention, this can be completely accounted for by just adding some HP to monsters. This is actually much cleaner design as well because the monster's lifetime won't swing wildly from table to table with the availability of magic items. It makes it a lot easier to balance what the monster might be able to do in a particular combat.
I personally don't like immunity at all, I think it isn't interesting, but that is an opinion.
I guess this will affect martials (EDIT: especially Rogues and Fighters) to some degree?
And I'm wondering if one of the reasons behind this change could be related to the occasional discussion about determining whether something is magical or not to bypass resistances.
Also, now changes in Monk's strikes or Primal Order make more sense.
Resistance B/P/S more impactful at low level, by Tier 2 end, martial characters generally have magic weapons anyways, unless playing low fantasy magic campaign style.
Yeah, it seems it's better now to gift your players "real" magical weapons instead of the classic vanilla “+X” weapon, like Flame Tongue, Dwarven Thrower or Frost Brand
Or give other magic item type since magic weapons are not necessary anymore.
If it bothers you, add HP or give them regeneration.
Overall I am not that bothered, it was just tacked on reams of creatures. But in some cases I'd of doubled down on it as their resistance or immunity is so core to their identity. Werewolves and silver being the easy example. I'd of made them immune to even magical weapons and just made it silver. Have a list of enemies in their own category like beasts/fiends etc that are only intended to be used as a story point of players researching their weaknesses. A these are not trash mobs, or random encounters they are only meant to be used as special enemies that the players have to figure out how to defeat. I don't care if its magical but your club is hitting a shadow and hurting it, that seems weird to me.
Honestly, my biggest issue with the change is the verisimilitude impact. One of the narrative roles of the resistances/immunities to mundane weapons is to explain why adventurers have such a prominent niche in the setting rather than conventional armed forces: there's a lot of stuff that can shrug off a typical sword or spear blow and magic/silvered weapons aren't practical to be deployed on any kind of large scale. Thus the market for roving, properly equipped specialists to deal with these things. Bolstering HP can potentially present a similar dynamic, but it's less obvious because now it's couched in the crunch of HP to expected DPR rather than an overt "basic weapons do half damage or don't work", and for the ones who were outright immune to non-magic PSB there's no way to get around the fact that throwing bodies at them has suddenly become infinitely more viable. Not game-ending, but sometimes I worry we're losing a lot of support for the "roleplay" part of "world's greatest roleplaying game".
Yeah, sometimes simplifying game mechanics affects narrative or worldbuilding.
Off-topic, but it stung a little to see psionics as a term isn't present in the 2024 MM, and only appears briefly for monsters (e.g. Githyanki or Thri-kreen)
Taking away silver vulnerability (if nothing else) takes the entire concept of the creature that has existed in folklore for literal CENTURIES and kicks it in the nards.
Give them Resistance to non-magical melee-type damage... SOMEthing... but the concept that I read somewhere that this was done to make them somehow TOUGHER is laughable.
Which creature- lycanthropes? That wasn't a centuries old trope actually. Universal Horror threw it in since by the time they made their movie guns were too good at killing anything man-sized. Plus probably just to add to the drama a bit.
It older than that. It became more common/widespread due to movies. but silver as a anti-magic/magical monster metal including werewolves goes back hundreds of years.