Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice).
So if you have extra attack does this mean the first attack is with the spell and the extra attack is normal... or you lose extra attack???
Had an idea for flavor for my warlock to cast this a lot for the radiant, he already gets cha to hit/dmg, being pact of the blade. Is there a way to do this???
You are using the magic action to cast True Strike so there is no extra attack unless you have a special feature that lets you cast a spell as part of the attack action.
Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting. The attack uses your spellcasting ability for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity. If the attack deals damage, it can be Radiant damage or the weapon’s normal damage type (your choice).
So if you have extra attack does this mean the first attack is with the spell and the extra attack is normal... or you lose extra attack???
Had an idea for flavor for my warlock to cast this a lot for the radiant, he already gets cha to hit/dmg, being pact of the blade. Is there a way to do this???
Extra Attack features require using the Attack action
Casting a spell like true strike requires the Magic action. The two aren't generally compatible
However, there are exceptions -- an Eldritch Knight can sub one of the attacks in their Attack action for a cantrip starting at 7th level, for instance. I'm not sure there's anything that would allow a warlock to cast a cantrip in lieu of one of the attacks from Thirsting Blade, though
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ok, so it would work fine till 5th level once I gain Thirsting Blade, then its not worth it. So will just hope to have a Radiant damage weapon by then.
Ok, so it would work fine till 5th level once I gain Thirsting Blade, then its not worth it. So will just hope to have a Radiant damage weapon by then.
Thx
Well, in the '24 rules, Pact weapons can always do Radiant damage if you choose, so if that's what you're after you can just pick up Pact of the Blade at some point
Whenever you attack with the bonded weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity; and you can cause the weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage or its normal damage type.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ok, so it would work fine till 5th level once I gain Thirsting Blade, then its not worth it. So will just hope to have a Radiant damage weapon by then.
Thx
Well, in the '24 rules, Pact weapons can always do Radiant damage if you choose, so if that's what you're after you can just pick up Pact of the Blade at some point
Whenever you attack with the bonded weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity; and you can cause the weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage or its normal damage type.
No DM will ever let you use such a feature.
Umm, I'm literally using it right now on a character
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ok, so it would work fine till 5th level once I gain Thirsting Blade, then its not worth it. So will just hope to have a Radiant damage weapon by then.
Thx
Well, in the '24 rules, Pact weapons can always do Radiant damage if you choose, so if that's what you're after you can just pick up Pact of the Blade at some point
Whenever you attack with the bonded weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity; and you can cause the weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage or its normal damage type.
No DM will ever let you use such a feature.
Umm, I'm literally using it right now on a character
AutumnalArchfey generally only posts in threads on the '24 rules to crap on the '24 rules, so it's usually not worth it to respond to their posts if you want to discuss the '24 rules.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Ok, so it would work fine till 5th level once I gain Thirsting Blade, then its not worth it. So will just hope to have a Radiant damage weapon by then.
Thx
Well, in the '24 rules, Pact weapons can always do Radiant damage if you choose, so if that's what you're after you can just pick up Pact of the Blade at some point
Whenever you attack with the bonded weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity; and you can cause the weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage or its normal damage type.
No DM will ever let you use such a feature.
Umm, I'm literally using it right now on a character
AutumnalArchfey generally only posts in threads on the '24 rules to crap on the '24 rules, so it's usually not worth it to respond to their posts if you want to discuss the '24 rules.
Oh, I know, they're on my perma-Ignore list for the most part. But that one was extra ridiculous
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It's a deliberate design choice to make certain classes' Extra Attack be worth more than others' for the sake of imbalance.
“Imbalance”; somewhat MAD spellcasters get the option to use their weakest damage option alongside a typically sub-par weapon attacks, and that’s going to be better than a dedicated martial making two or more weapon attacks? The cantrip option is so gishes don’t just completely stop making weapon attacks once they get into tier 2, but even with maxed spellcasting and weapon abilities, the DPR is unlikely to keep up with real martials on that front.
Well, in the '24 rules, Pact weapons can always do Radiant damage if you choose, so if that's what you're after you can just pick up Pact of the Blade at some point
Whenever you attack with the bonded weapon, you can use your Charisma modifier for the attack and damage rolls instead of using Strength or Dexterity; and you can cause the weapon to deal Necrotic, Psychic, or Radiant damage or its normal damage type.
Oh thank you, I didn't see that change. I was just happy you can go Pact of Blade without having to be Hexblade now to make it worthwhile.
I have a character which started 1st level as Paladin for mechanical (Armor/Weapon Proficiency/2 lvl 1 spell slots/Weapon Mastery etc...) and thematical reasons as I will multiclass Celestial Warlock. However I am wondering if it is worth it to take Pact of the Blade from level 2 to level 5 (before getting Thirsting Blade) as I could choose to use True Strike together with Agonizing Blast. Then I will stop using True Strike and by default take Pact of the Blade when getting Thirsting Blade.
What to do for these early levels? How does Pact of the Blade interact with True Strike and Agonizing Blast, do I get to add twice my CHA. mod to both attack rolls and damage rolls?
Then I plan on taking the Great Weapon Master feat at level 5 (1 lvl of Paladin/4 lvl of Celestial Warlock): can someone confirm that True Strike does not work with Great Weapon Master?
I have a character which started 1st level as Paladin for mechanical (Armor/Weapon Proficiency/2 lvl 1 spell slots/Weapon Mastery etc...) and thematical reasons as I will multiclass Celestial Warlock. However I am wondering if it is worth it to take Pact of the Blade from level 2 to level 5 (before getting Thirsting Blade) as I could choose to use True Strike together with Agonizing Blast. Then I will stop using True Strike and by default take Pact of the Blade when getting Thirsting Blade.
What to do for these early levels? How does Pact of the Blade interact with True Strike and Agonizing Blast, do I get to add twice my CHA. mod to both attack rolls and damage rolls?
Then I plan on taking the Great Weapon Master feat at level 5 (1 lvl of Paladin/4 lvl of Celestial Warlock): can someone confirm that True Strike does not work with Great Weapon Master?
The question of whether Agonizing Blast applies to True Strike, and whether that allows adding your Charisma modifier to damage rolls twice, is not really settled as of yet and has been the source of a lot of frenzied debate. (It definitively does not add your Charisma modifier twice to attack rolls, as Agonizing Blast doesn't affect attack rolls at all.)
As for Great Weapon Master, the feat has two benefits: one which increases the damage of a hit with a Heavy weapon, and one which allows you to make an extra attack as a bonus action after scoring a critical hit or reducing a creature to 0 HP.
The first benefit, the damage bonus, does not apply when using True Strike in most cases, since it is limited to only attacks made as part of the Attack action, and casting that spell requires using the Magic action. (Some characters, such as Eldritch Knight Fighters and Valor Bards, have the ability to cast a cantrip as part of an Attack action, and in these cases it could apply.)
The second benefit has no such limitation, so it can be used after an attack with True Strike, as long as it is made with a melee weapon.
2024 I thought Agonizing Blast did not work with True Strike as it does no damage (Till level 5), actually same for 2014 isn't it. It only changes damage type before 5th level and Agonizing Blast requires the spell to do damage. It is the weapon strike that does damage not the spell. You just can gain advantage 2014 or change type of damage 2024.
What "both attacks"? Pack of the Blade does not give extra attacks and True Strike works on only one attack. So where would you be adding cha twice? If you mean Pact of the Blade Cha to damage and instead of str or dex. Yes, you would add that. As above not sure you can even get Agonizing Blast extra cha at all.
Great Weapon Master adds PB, so you would add that.
Agonizing Blast Choose one of your known Warlock cantrips that deals damage. You can add your Charisma modifier to that spell’s damage rolls.
But at the same time, if using that ruling, for Green-Flame Blade (starting at 5th level) you could technically apply Agonizing Blast to the Fire damage; for Booming Blade, it could affect the damage rolls for Thunder damage; and for True Strike, it could affect the damage rolls for the extra Radiant damage.
Regarding the interaction between Pact of the Blade and True Strike, I don't think they would stack, since Pact of the Blade already replaces CHA for the attack and damage rolls.
hi guys thanks your input - in conclusion: 1) True Strike does not stack with Pact of the Blade: so when using True Strike with Pact of the Blade you only add once the CHA modifier to attack rolls and to dmg rolls - it seems debatable as well but the many people seem to agree that it does not stack, correct? 2) it is debatable if True Strike interacts with Agonizing Blast - I will discuss with my DM and he will decide 3) Great Weapon Master does not work with True Strike when it comes to the additional PB dmg 4) For the early levels, if my DM accepts the fact that True Strike interacts with Agonizing Blast, I will not choose the Pact of the Blade invocation. When Thirsting Blade kicks in, I will choose Pact of the Blade, Thirsting Blade etc... this also the conclusion reached in this thread, see Celestial Generalist An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds: 2024 Edition
1) True Strike does not stack with Pact of the Blade: so when using True Strike with Pact of the Blade you only add once the CHA modifier to attack rolls and to dmg rolls - it seems debatable as well but the many people seem to agree that it does not stack, correct?
Correct. And the language for both is pretty clear; each replaces STR/DEX with CHA, so both at the same time would simply be redundant.
2) it is debatable if True Strike interacts with Agonizing Blast - I will discuss with my DM and he will decide
Exactly.
The argument against is basically "True Strike is a weapon attack, not a spell attack." The argument for is basically "It's both a weapon attack and a spell attack, because the 2024 definitions are much simpler."
From a game balance perspective, True Strike + Agonizing Blast is only sorta competitive with Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast (a little better at tier 1, about tied at tier 2, worse later on), so it won't make a huge difference.
3) Great Weapon Master does not work with True Strike when it comes to the additional PB dmg
Correct.
4) For the early levels, if my DM accepts the fact that True Strike interacts with Agonizing Blast, I will not choose the Pact of the Blade invocation. When Thirsting Blade kicks in, I will choose Pact of the Blade, Thirsting Blade etc... Anything else which should be considered?
That's a fine strategy. You get slightly better DPR early on, at the expense of it falling apart if you get silenced or otherwise can't cast.
[...] 3) Great Weapon Master does not work with True Strike when it comes to the additional PB dmg [...]
Unless, as wagnarokkr said, you cast the cantrip as part of the Attack Action (e.g. Eldritch Knight's War Magic, College of Valor Bard's Extra Attack, or Bladesinging's Extra Attack)
2024 True Strike
So if you have extra attack does this mean the first attack is with the spell and the extra attack is normal... or you lose extra attack???
Had an idea for flavor for my warlock to cast this a lot for the radiant, he already gets cha to hit/dmg, being pact of the blade. Is there a way to do this???
You are using the magic action to cast True Strike so there is no extra attack unless you have a special feature that lets you cast a spell as part of the attack action.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Extra Attack features require using the Attack action
Casting a spell like true strike requires the Magic action. The two aren't generally compatible
However, there are exceptions -- an Eldritch Knight can sub one of the attacks in their Attack action for a cantrip starting at 7th level, for instance. I'm not sure there's anything that would allow a warlock to cast a cantrip in lieu of one of the attacks from Thirsting Blade, though
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ok, so it would work fine till 5th level once I gain Thirsting Blade, then its not worth it. So will just hope to have a Radiant damage weapon by then.
Thx
Well, in the '24 rules, Pact weapons can always do Radiant damage if you choose, so if that's what you're after you can just pick up Pact of the Blade at some point
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Umm, I'm literally using it right now on a character
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
AutumnalArchfey generally only posts in threads on the '24 rules to crap on the '24 rules, so it's usually not worth it to respond to their posts if you want to discuss the '24 rules.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Oh, I know, they're on my perma-Ignore list for the most part. But that one was extra ridiculous
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
“Imbalance”; somewhat MAD spellcasters get the option to use their weakest damage option alongside a typically sub-par weapon attacks, and that’s going to be better than a dedicated martial making two or more weapon attacks? The cantrip option is so gishes don’t just completely stop making weapon attacks once they get into tier 2, but even with maxed spellcasting and weapon abilities, the DPR is unlikely to keep up with real martials on that front.
Oh thank you, I didn't see that change. I was just happy you can go Pact of Blade without having to be Hexblade now to make it worthwhile.
I have a character which started 1st level as Paladin for mechanical (Armor/Weapon Proficiency/2 lvl 1 spell slots/Weapon Mastery etc...) and thematical reasons as I will multiclass Celestial Warlock. However I am wondering if it is worth it to take Pact of the Blade from level 2 to level 5 (before getting Thirsting Blade) as I could choose to use True Strike together with Agonizing Blast. Then I will stop using True Strike and by default take Pact of the Blade when getting Thirsting Blade.
What to do for these early levels? How does Pact of the Blade interact with True Strike and Agonizing Blast, do I get to add twice my CHA. mod to both attack rolls and damage rolls?
Then I plan on taking the Great Weapon Master feat at level 5 (1 lvl of Paladin/4 lvl of Celestial Warlock): can someone confirm that True Strike does not work with Great Weapon Master?
The question of whether Agonizing Blast applies to True Strike, and whether that allows adding your Charisma modifier to damage rolls twice, is not really settled as of yet and has been the source of a lot of frenzied debate. (It definitively does not add your Charisma modifier twice to attack rolls, as Agonizing Blast doesn't affect attack rolls at all.)
As for Great Weapon Master, the feat has two benefits: one which increases the damage of a hit with a Heavy weapon, and one which allows you to make an extra attack as a bonus action after scoring a critical hit or reducing a creature to 0 HP.
The first benefit, the damage bonus, does not apply when using True Strike in most cases, since it is limited to only attacks made as part of the Attack action, and casting that spell requires using the Magic action. (Some characters, such as Eldritch Knight Fighters and Valor Bards, have the ability to cast a cantrip as part of an Attack action, and in these cases it could apply.)
The second benefit has no such limitation, so it can be used after an attack with True Strike, as long as it is made with a melee weapon.
pronouns: he/she/they
2024 I thought Agonizing Blast did not work with True Strike as it does no damage (Till level 5), actually same for 2014 isn't it. It only changes damage type before 5th level and Agonizing Blast requires the spell to do damage. It is the weapon strike that does damage not the spell. You just can gain advantage 2014 or change type of damage 2024.
What "both attacks"? Pack of the Blade does not give extra attacks and True Strike works on only one attack. So where would you be adding cha twice? If you mean Pact of the Blade Cha to damage and instead of str or dex. Yes, you would add that. As above not sure you can even get Agonizing Blast extra cha at all.
Great Weapon Master adds PB, so you would add that.
As wagnarokkr said, the interaction between Agonizing Blast and Booming Blade, Green-Flame Blade, or True Strike is not clear, but IMO, they are not spell's damage rolls, required for Agonizing Blast:
But at the same time, if using that ruling, for Green-Flame Blade (starting at 5th level) you could technically apply Agonizing Blast to the Fire damage; for Booming Blade, it could affect the damage rolls for Thunder damage; and for True Strike, it could affect the damage rolls for the extra Radiant damage.
Regarding the interaction between Pact of the Blade and True Strike, I don't think they would stack, since Pact of the Blade already replaces CHA for the attack and damage rolls.
hi guys thanks your input - in conclusion:
1) True Strike does not stack with Pact of the Blade: so when using True Strike with Pact of the Blade you only add once the CHA modifier to attack rolls and to dmg rolls - it seems debatable as well but the many people seem to agree that it does not stack, correct?
2) it is debatable if True Strike interacts with Agonizing Blast - I will discuss with my DM and he will decide
3) Great Weapon Master does not work with True Strike when it comes to the additional PB dmg
4) For the early levels, if my DM accepts the fact that True Strike interacts with Agonizing Blast, I will not choose the Pact of the Blade invocation. When Thirsting Blade kicks in, I will choose Pact of the Blade, Thirsting Blade etc... this also the conclusion reached in this thread, see Celestial Generalist An Eclectic Collection of Fun and Effective Builds: 2024 Edition
Anything else which should be considered?
Correct. And the language for both is pretty clear; each replaces STR/DEX with CHA, so both at the same time would simply be redundant.
Exactly.
The argument against is basically "True Strike is a weapon attack, not a spell attack." The argument for is basically "It's both a weapon attack and a spell attack, because the 2024 definitions are much simpler."
From a game balance perspective, True Strike + Agonizing Blast is only sorta competitive with Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast (a little better at tier 1, about tied at tier 2, worse later on), so it won't make a huge difference.
Correct.
That's a fine strategy. You get slightly better DPR early on, at the expense of it falling apart if you get silenced or otherwise can't cast.
Great, thank you for the swift reply
Unless, as wagnarokkr said, you cast the cantrip as part of the Attack Action (e.g. Eldritch Knight's War Magic, College of Valor Bard's Extra Attack, or Bladesinging's Extra Attack)
Related: New GWM with BB, GFB and true strike
It does if you are using true strike as part of the attack action.