When you cast Conjure Animals in the 2024 rules how big is the pack? Is it a single 5 ft square or does it follow the legacy rules of how many creatures?
It's a "Large pack of spectral, intangible animals". That means it occupies a 10 by 10 space and other creatures can be in the same space. conjure animals
It's a "Large pack of spectral, intangible animals". That means it occupies a 10 by 10 space and other creatures can be in the same space. conjure animals
This is not totally clear to me: "and other creatures can be in the same space" (or not in all situations, at least)
The spell says: "[...] intangible animals in an unoccupied space you can see within range [...]", and "you can also move the pack up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see"
Maybe the spell would have to say something like this to allow what you said?:
- Level 3: Invoke Duplicity: "The illusion is intangible and doesn’t occupy its space." - Bigby’s Hand: "The hand doesn’t occupy its space." - Swarms: "Swarm. The swarm can occupy another creature’s space and vice versa [...]"
It's a little confusing, because while it says it's "intangible", but it doesn't say that it doesn't occupy its space. And as far as I know there's no general rule about whether an intangible thing that's not a creature occupies its space by default or not.
But also, if you take away the "flavor" aspect of it being animals, and the history of the old version of the spell conjuring actual creatures, what you're left with is an area effect that deals damage and which you can move around on your turn. Without the flavor, it's a lot like Moonbeam or the new Cloud of Daggers, and nobody ever argues that those effects can't move into a creature's space.
I think there are good arguments both ways on this one and it could really use some clarification.
It's a little confusing, because while it says it's "intangible", but it doesn't say that it doesn't occupy its space. And as far as I know there's no general rule about whether an intangible thing that's not a creature occupies its space by default or not.
But also, if you take away the "flavor" aspect of it being animals, and the history of the old version of the spell conjuring actual creatures, what you're left with is an area effect that deals damage and which you can move around on your turn. Without the flavor, it's a lot like Moonbeam or the new Cloud of Daggers, and nobody ever argues that those effects can't move into a creature's space.
I think there are good arguments both ways on this one and it could really use some clarification.
I guess so.
Interestingly, as another example, Conjure Elemental mentions "a Large, intangible spirit" (like Conjure Animals) but also mentions the possibility of entering the spirit's space.
In any case, I'd go with your proposals unless some clarification comes up (if it ever does!)
My interpretation is that since the conjure animals is intangible it would not hinder another creatures movement in any way. Anyone could choose to move through the animals without penalty or end their turn in the same space. I think you have to both conjure and move the animals to an unoccupied space to avoid any potential rules lawyering where you could double dip for damage even though the spell explicitly calls out one saving throw per turn.
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When you cast Conjure Animals in the 2024 rules how big is the pack? Is it a single 5 ft square or does it follow the legacy rules of how many creatures?
It's a "Large pack of spectral, intangible animals". That means it occupies a 10 by 10 space and other creatures can be in the same space. conjure animals
This is not totally clear to me: "and other creatures can be in the same space" (or not in all situations, at least)
The spell says: "[...] intangible animals in an unoccupied space you can see within range [...]", and "you can also move the pack up to 30 feet to an unoccupied space you can see"
Maybe the spell would have to say something like this to allow what you said?:
- Level 3: Invoke Duplicity: "The illusion is intangible and doesn’t occupy its space."
- Bigby’s Hand: "The hand doesn’t occupy its space."
- Swarms: "Swarm. The swarm can occupy another creature’s space and vice versa [...]"
It's a little confusing, because while it says it's "intangible", but it doesn't say that it doesn't occupy its space. And as far as I know there's no general rule about whether an intangible thing that's not a creature occupies its space by default or not.
But also, if you take away the "flavor" aspect of it being animals, and the history of the old version of the spell conjuring actual creatures, what you're left with is an area effect that deals damage and which you can move around on your turn. Without the flavor, it's a lot like Moonbeam or the new Cloud of Daggers, and nobody ever argues that those effects can't move into a creature's space.
I think there are good arguments both ways on this one and it could really use some clarification.
pronouns: he/she/they
I guess so.
Interestingly, as another example, Conjure Elemental mentions "a Large, intangible spirit" (like Conjure Animals) but also mentions the possibility of entering the spirit's space.
In any case, I'd go with your proposals unless some clarification comes up (if it ever does!)
Thanks!
My interpretation is that since the conjure animals is intangible it would not hinder another creatures movement in any way. Anyone could choose to move through the animals without penalty or end their turn in the same space. I think you have to both conjure and move the animals to an unoccupied space to avoid any potential rules lawyering where you could double dip for damage even though the spell explicitly calls out one saving throw per turn.