Can I throw a dagger during my Attack action, and throw another dagger with the same hand during my Bonus action while holding a shield?
Using what feature? I assume you're asking about if Light Property permits this, I would say that by RAW it would be permitted but RAI is unclear on if it should be. If you have weapon mastery you might not even need the Bonus Action to throw the second, since nothing in the Light Property or Nick limits it to melee attacks, thus a thrown weapon should still be applicable to both.
I assume the most likely class to do this would be Rogue and they do get weapon mastery... tho using a shield? Some information on what you're trying to achieve might help here, Like what class the character is.
There is a very long thread on the confusing mess these particular rules entail.
To understand the problem with regards to Thrown Weapons, consider the difference between a standard Dagger and a Returning Dagger. There's debate about what you can do with a standard Dagger. Depending on your interpretation of Light/Nick and Dual Wielder, you can throw a standard Dagger three times (twice during the Action, one during Bonus Action). However, there's really no debate with the Returning Dagger: you can only throw it once because you can't take advantage of either Light/Nick or Dual Wielder with the same weapon.
RAW, there is nothing in the rules that specifies you have to use two different hands to benefit from the Light weapon property, the Nick weapon mastery, or the Dual Wielder bonus action attack.
RAI, I think it is pretty clear that to "dual-wield", you would need to be using more than one hand. The best rules justification I can give for this ruling is from the Dungeon Master's Guide in the section about players exploiting the rules:
Rules Rely on Good-Faith Interpretation. The rules assume that everyone reading and interpreting the rules has the interests of the group’s fun at heart and is reading the rules in that light.
No rules prevent you to use the same hand when making the extra attack of the Light Property with a different weapon, or draw it as part of the attack when Thrown.
Can I make an attack with a Light weapon, then draw a second weapon with my other hand and qualify to make the extra attack of the Light property? Yes. The only requirement for the Light property’s extra attack is that it’s made with a different Light weapon.
I was a bit cautious in previous threads, but I also think the scenario proposed by the OP is legit RAW.
"Yes. The only requirement for the Light property’s extra attack is that it’s made with a different Light weapon."
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Joining in on the people saying you absolutely can.
The rules don't specify that the mechanic is specifically for two-weapon fighting. The previous rules were explicitly about two-weapon fighting, and people let this color their assumptions about how it's supposed to work, and refuse to believe that the current ones are more general. (Two weapon fighting may be the most common application, but it's not the only one, as your question illustrates.)
Can I throw a dagger during my Attack action, and throw another dagger with the same hand during my Bonus action while holding a shield?
That is a question best left to Sage Advice to answer because the light property states the bonus extra attack is made with a different weapon and does not include a creature’s proficiency and weapon ability mod unless negative for the attack roll. Good faith interpretation requires the full context of a rule not just parts that are beneficial while ignoring the parts that would otherwise prevent or impose a negative effect that is specifically intended and designed to prevent such bad faith usage.
Also the very question asked within the 2024 Sage Advice specifically mentions the other hand within it, had it mentioned the same hand would the answer be the same?
Till such a question as to whether or not the same hand used to attack with shield in other hand is eligible to use the light weapon bonus attack, the way the current rule reads is that the bonus action attack is to be made with not only a different weapon but also requires it to be made with the other hand because of the lack of proficiency and weapon ability mod in the attack roll.
If you use the same hand that initially made the first attack, what is to prevent a player from arguing they should still receive the same weapon proficiency and mod to make the attack with and would they even include such language in the rule if it did not matter?
And the example given in the rule is know as a declarative intent of functionality that is designed to show how the feature is supposed to work.
Till a better and more accurate answer is fully explained by “Official Advice” no one can say ether way if the use of a shield allows for single hand two light weapon fighting ability that attempts to ignore the negative parts of the rule just to benefit from the worthwhile parts, especially when weapon juggling is involved.
The partial answer given was for a specific question that included the fact that the other hand was mentioned within that particular question, and the answer given was the typical “twisted wish intent” of only a partial solution with no explanation.
A DM can certainly rule it as they want, but unless a better answer is given the use of both hands are required to use the benefit if the light property bonus attack and juggling a shield to do so has to be taken into account to do so.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Can I throw a dagger during my Attack action, and throw another dagger with the same hand during my Bonus action while holding a shield?
That is a question best left to Sage Advice to answer because the light property states the bonus extra attack is made with a different weapon and does not include a creature’s proficiency and weapon ability mod unless negative for the attack roll.
Just for the record, this is not true; the extra attack from the Light property does include your ability modifier in the attack roll, as well as your proficiency bonus if applicable. It doesn't include the ability modifier in the damage roll unless you have some other feature that enables this.
Chiming in to say that RAW, yes. Nothing in the rules seems to prevent this.
RAI, I don't think so and I don't think I'd allow this as a DM. The fact that it doesn't work with a returning dagger is indication enough to me that it shouldn't work with the slightly more fiddly throw + draw and throw (a different dagger).
The example in the Light Property refers to using both hands if it's any indication of what was intended;
Light: For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Can I throw a dagger during my Attack action, and throw another dagger with the same hand during my Bonus action while holding a shield?
That is a question best left to Sage Advice to answer because the light property states the bonus extra attack is made with a different weapon and does not include a creature’s proficiency and weapon ability mod unless negative for the attack roll. Good faith interpretation requires the full context of a rule not just parts that are beneficial while ignoring the parts that would otherwise prevent or impose a negative effect that is specifically intended and designed to prevent such bad faith usage.
Also the very question asked within the 2024 Sage Advice specifically mentions the other hand within it, had it mentioned the same hand would the answer be the same?
Till such a question as to whether or not the same hand used to attack with shield in other hand is eligible to use the light weapon bonus attack, the way the current rule reads is that the bonus action attack is to be made with not only a different weapon but also requires it to be made with the other hand because of the lack of proficiency and weapon ability mod in the attack roll.
If you use the same hand that initially made the first attack, what is to prevent a player from arguing they should still receive the same weapon proficiency and mod to make the attack with and would they even include such language in the rule if it did not matter?
And the example given in the rule is know as a declarative intent of functionality that is designed to show how the feature is supposed to work.
Till a better and more accurate answer is fully explained by “Official Advice” no one can say ether way if the use of a shield allows for single hand two light weapon fighting ability that attempts to ignore the negative parts of the rule just to benefit from the worthwhile parts, especially when weapon juggling is involved.
The partial answer given was for a specific question that included the fact that the other hand was mentioned within that particular question, and the answer given was the typical “twisted wish intent” of only a partial solution with no explanation.
A DM can certainly rule it as they want, but unless a better answer is given the use of both hands are required to use the benefit if the light property bonus attack and juggling a shield to do so has to be taken into account to do so.
What "negative parts of the rule" tell you two hands are required?
The example in the Light Property refers to using both hands if it's any indication of what was intended;
Light: For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
This part. And this is light property in full from rules:
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
The example in the Light Property refers to using both hands if it's any indication of what was intended;
Light: For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
The example is not the rule. It's one instance of how it works in play. It's almost certainly the most common way it's going to be used, but if they intended the rule to be restricted to two-handed fighting, they could've put it in the actual rule, and they didn't.
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
The example is the remaining text that changed between 2014 and 2024, and still sets the intention of the rule. Ignoring the example text is ignoring the potential intent of the rule.
Good faith interpretation of the rules usually means all of the rule not just select pieces, picking only the good while ignoring the bad is not in good faith.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
The example in the Light Property refers to using both hands if it's any indication of what was intended;
Light: For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
This part. And this is light property in full from rules:
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn. That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
Examples are not rules and cannot be treated as such. You can only determine rules from them if the rules are otherwise vague and the example contradicts one interpretation of them. That is not true here.
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
The example is the remaining text that changed between 2014 and 2024, and still sets the intention of the rule. Ignoring the example text is ignoring the potential intent of the rule.
Good faith interpretation of the rules usually means all of the rule not just select pieces, picking only the good while ignoring the bad is not in good faith.
If you are going to look at the 2014 rules for guidance then it really would be prudent to note that both the two-weapon fighting rule and the dual-wielder feat specifically requires you to hold the weapons in both hands while the 2024 rules has lost all that language. Trying to read intent of one rule by looking at an old version without considering the things that have changed doesn't seem like much of a good faith reading to me.
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Can I throw a dagger during my Attack action, and throw another dagger with the same hand during my Bonus action while holding a shield?
Using what feature? I assume you're asking about if Light Property permits this, I would say that by RAW it would be permitted but RAI is unclear on if it should be. If you have weapon mastery you might not even need the Bonus Action to throw the second, since nothing in the Light Property or Nick limits it to melee attacks, thus a thrown weapon should still be applicable to both.
I assume the most likely class to do this would be Rogue and they do get weapon mastery... tho using a shield? Some information on what you're trying to achieve might help here, Like what class the character is.
I want to know if the light property can be used on one hand or if two-weapon fighting is required?
There is a very long thread on the confusing mess these particular rules entail.
To understand the problem with regards to Thrown Weapons, consider the difference between a standard Dagger and a Returning Dagger. There's debate about what you can do with a standard Dagger. Depending on your interpretation of Light/Nick and Dual Wielder, you can throw a standard Dagger three times (twice during the Action, one during Bonus Action). However, there's really no debate with the Returning Dagger: you can only throw it once because you can't take advantage of either Light/Nick or Dual Wielder with the same weapon.
RAW, there is nothing in the rules that specifies you have to use two different hands to benefit from the Light weapon property, the Nick weapon mastery, or the Dual Wielder bonus action attack.
RAI, I think it is pretty clear that to "dual-wield", you would need to be using more than one hand. The best rules justification I can give for this ruling is from the Dungeon Master's Guide in the section about players exploiting the rules:
Rules Rely on Good-Faith Interpretation. The rules assume that everyone reading and interpreting the rules has the interests of the group’s fun at heart and is reading the rules in that light.
No rules prevent you to use the same hand when making the extra attack of the Light Property with a different weapon, or draw it as part of the attack when Thrown.
A Sage Advice Compendium FAQ on this topic could be useful to make it official in one way or another.
Regarding SAC, we have this answer:
I was a bit cautious in previous threads, but I also think the scenario proposed by the OP is legit RAW.
It is already in the sage advice: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/sae/sage-advice-compendium#SAC-Combat27
"Yes. The only requirement for the Light property’s extra attack is that it’s made with a different Light weapon."
"grandpa" Salkur, Gnome Arti/Sorc: Forged in Chaos | Pepin, Human Arti/Cleric: Goblin horde | Mixtli, Volc Genasi Arti: Champions of the Citadel | Erix Vadalitis, Human Druid: Rising from the last war | Smithy, Human Arti: Night Ravens: Black orchids for Biscotti | Tamphalic Aliprax, Dragonborn Wizard: Chronicles of the Accursed | Doc, Dwarven Cleric (2024): Adventure at Hope's End | Abathax, Tiefling Illriger: Hunt for the Balowang | Gorin Mestel, Human Arti: Descend into Avernus
Joining in on the people saying you absolutely can.
The rules don't specify that the mechanic is specifically for two-weapon fighting. The previous rules were explicitly about two-weapon fighting, and people let this color their assumptions about how it's supposed to work, and refuse to believe that the current ones are more general. (Two weapon fighting may be the most common application, but it's not the only one, as your question illustrates.)
That is a question best left to Sage Advice to answer because the light property states the bonus extra attack is made with a different weapon and does not include a creature’s proficiency and weapon ability mod unless negative for the attack roll.
Good faith interpretation requires the full context of a rule not just parts that are beneficial while ignoring the parts that would otherwise prevent or impose a negative effect that is specifically intended and designed to prevent such bad faith usage.
Also the very question asked within the 2024 Sage Advice specifically mentions the other hand within it, had it mentioned the same hand would the answer be the same?
Till such a question as to whether or not the same hand used to attack with shield in other hand is eligible to use the light weapon bonus attack, the way the current rule reads is that the bonus action attack is to be made with not only a different weapon but also requires it to be made with the other hand because of the lack of proficiency and weapon ability mod in the attack roll.
If you use the same hand that initially made the first attack, what is to prevent a player from arguing they should still receive the same weapon proficiency and mod to make the attack with and would they even include such language in the rule if it did not matter?
And the example given in the rule is know as a declarative intent of functionality that is designed to show how the feature is supposed to work.
Till a better and more accurate answer is fully explained by “Official Advice” no one can say ether way if the use of a shield allows for single hand two light weapon fighting ability that attempts to ignore the negative parts of the rule just to benefit from the worthwhile parts, especially when weapon juggling is involved.
The partial answer given was for a specific question that included the fact that the other hand was mentioned within that particular question, and the answer given was the typical “twisted wish intent” of only a partial solution with no explanation.
A DM can certainly rule it as they want, but unless a better answer is given the use of both hands are required to use the benefit if the light property bonus attack and juggling a shield to do so has to be taken into account to do so.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Just for the record, this is not true; the extra attack from the Light property does include your ability modifier in the attack roll, as well as your proficiency bonus if applicable. It doesn't include the ability modifier in the damage roll unless you have some other feature that enables this.
pronouns: he/she/they
Chiming in to say that RAW, yes. Nothing in the rules seems to prevent this.
RAI, I don't think so and I don't think I'd allow this as a DM. The fact that it doesn't work with a returning dagger is indication enough to me that it shouldn't work with the slightly more fiddly throw + draw and throw (a different dagger).
The example in the Light Property refers to using both hands if it's any indication of what was intended;
What "negative parts of the rule" tell you two hands are required?
This part. And this is light property in full from rules:
Light
When you take the Attack action on your turn and attack with a Light weapon, you can make one extra attack as a Bonus Action later on the same turn.
That extra attack must be made with a different Light weapon, and you don’t add your ability modifier to the extra attack’s damage unless that modifier is negative.
For example, you can attack with a Shortsword in one hand and a Dagger in the other using the Attack action and a Bonus Action, but you don’t add your Strength or Dexterity modifier to the damage roll of the Bonus Action unless that modifier is negative.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
The example is not the rule. It's one instance of how it works in play. It's almost certainly the most common way it's going to be used, but if they intended the rule to be restricted to two-handed fighting, they could've put it in the actual rule, and they didn't.
2014 basic rules:
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand. You don't add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus attack, unless that modifier is negative. If either weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon, instead of making a melee attack with it.
The example is the remaining text that changed between 2014 and 2024, and still sets the intention of the rule. Ignoring the example text is ignoring the potential intent of the rule.
Good faith interpretation of the rules usually means all of the rule not just select pieces, picking only the good while ignoring the bad is not in good faith.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
Examples are not rules and cannot be treated as such. You can only determine rules from them if the rules are otherwise vague and the example contradicts one interpretation of them. That is not true here.
If you are going to look at the 2014 rules for guidance then it really would be prudent to note that both the two-weapon fighting rule and the dual-wielder feat specifically requires you to hold the weapons in both hands while the 2024 rules has lost all that language. Trying to read intent of one rule by looking at an old version without considering the things that have changed doesn't seem like much of a good faith reading to me.