As written, it takes an action. I recommend not actually following the rules as written, however, because letting people cast, say, hallow or planar binding while ignoring casting time and material components is pretty busted.
Or a gp cap- anything that nips Raise Dead would cover those too, and could still leave a free cast of stuff like Legend Lore or Greater Restoration so it's still giving decent utility without being broken.
As written, it takes an action. I recommend not actually following the rules as written, however, because letting people cast, say, hallow or planar binding while ignoring casting time and material components is pretty busted.
I have to disagree there — this sort of outlandish, miraculous thing seems like exactly the point of asking literal divine intervention.
As written, it takes an action. I recommend not actually following the rules as written, however, because letting people cast, say, hallow or planar binding while ignoring casting time and material components is pretty busted.
I have to disagree there — this sort of outlandish, miraculous thing seems like exactly the point of asking literal divine intervention.
The issue is exactly how much Divine Intervention should the players have on tap once a day? There's several Demon Princes with very mediocre CHA saves, so if you exhaust the LR's first you can have good odds of asking your deity nicely and binding a being like Baphomet or Orcus. That's a bit more "I win" than I'd like on tap like that.
As written, it takes an action. I recommend not actually following the rules as written, however, because letting people cast, say, hallow or planar binding while ignoring casting time and material components is pretty busted.
I have to disagree there — this sort of outlandish, miraculous thing seems like exactly the point of asking literal divine intervention.
The issue is exactly how much Divine Intervention should the players have on tap once a day? There's several Demon Princes with very mediocre CHA saves, so if you exhaust the LR's first you can have good odds of asking your deity nicely and binding a being like Baphomet or Orcus. That's a bit more "I win" than I'd like on tap like that.
LOL at the idea that a planar binding on Baphomet is a "win"
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It’s a watered down version of Wish without the wash.
You get a 5th level or lower free casting of a spell once per long rest. The time to cast is just 1 action, so a spell that normally takes some time longer than 6 seconds of 5th level or lower is cast in one action.
And unfortunately no Divine Counterspelling.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
I meant you couldn’t use it to counterspell another person. As for counter spelling it, i’d put that firmly in the DM hands as to how that might be decided.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
A DM can rule it differently, but RAW the spell is cast by the Cleric so Counterspell works against the the spell you cast using Divine Intervention:
Level 10: Divine Intervention
You can call on your deity or pantheon to intervene on your behalf. As a Magic action, choose any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components. You can’t use this feature again until you finish a Long Rest.
It’s a watered down version of Wish without the wash.
You get a 5th level or lower free casting of a spell once per long rest. The time to cast is just 1 action, so a spell that normally takes some time longer than 6 seconds of 5th level or lower is cast in one action.
And unfortunately no Divine Counterspelling.
But wish has a diferente description
"The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. If you use it this way, you don't need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect."
1- Any where in the description say that part is out
Yes. The part where it says that you cast the spell as part of the same action that you used to invoke Divine Intervention.
As always with things like this, it's important to ask: if the intent was for the spell to take its normal casting time instead, would they have worded it the way that they did?
That description sau that you CAST as part of the same action, nowere say that CAST of the spell has any change
Wis has another description
"The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. If you use it this way, you don't need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect."
If the intention was the same they would use the same description
1- Any where in the description say that part is out
Yes. The part where it says that you cast the spell as part of the same action that you used to invoke Divine Intervention.
As always with things like this, it's important to ask: if the intent was for the spell to take its normal casting time instead, would they have worded it the way that they did?
That description sau that you CAST as part of the same action, nowere say that CAST of the spell has any change
Wis has another description
"The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. If you use it this way, you don't need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect."
If the intention was the same they would use the same description
Casting time isn't a "requirement".
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
A DM can rule it differently, but RAW the spell is cast by the Cleric so Counterspell works against the the spell you cast using Divine Intervention:
Level 10: Divine Intervention
You can call on your deity or pantheon to intervene on your behalf. As a Magic action, choose any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components. You can’t use this feature again until you finish a Long Rest.
So if it doesn’t use a casters spell slot, or require the material component, what exactly are you attempting to counterspell when a cleric uses Divine Intervention?
Like I said it’s a DM call if you can even Counterspell the feature, and because the feature doesn’t allow casting Reaction timed spells, using divine intervention to cast a counterspell is no longer a viable option.
As to casting time of any spell that is cast used by divine intervention, the feature states that casting time is the magic action that invokes the class feature and the spell chosen uses the same magic action to cast the spell, which reads as when you use divine intervention as the magic action the spell casted takes only a magic action to complete.
If you use a Wish spell to cast a spell that normally takes an hour to cast, would you have to concentrate for an hour for the wish to come true? Or would the spell work in the time given for the casting of the Wish spell?
Seems like a Level 10 class feature that gives the impression that you can for a magic action get a totally free casting of a 5th level or lower Cleric spell once a day feels like a watered down version of Wish, without the possibility of losing the ability or potential negative consequences.
It’s definitely changed from the previous version, and like most of the other rules is mainly left to DM discretion to figure out the details of how it plays out.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
A DM can rule it differently, but RAW the spell is cast by the Cleric so Counterspell works against the the spell you cast using Divine Intervention:
Level 10: Divine Intervention
You can call on your deity or pantheon to intervene on your behalf. As a Magic action, choose any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components. You can’t use this feature again until you finish a Long Rest.
So if it doesn’t use a casters spell slot, or require the material component, what exactly are you attempting to counterspell when a cleric uses Divine Intervention?
The spell slot doesn't matter for Counterspell, just:
Casting Time: Reaction, which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of yourself casting a spell with Verbal, Somatic, or Material components
You're right about the Material component, but if the spell has V or S, you can use your Reaction.
[...] because the feature doesn’t allow casting Reaction timed spells, using divine intervention to cast a counterspell is no longer a viable option.
A DM can rule it differently, but RAW the spell is cast by the Cleric so Counterspell works against the the spell you cast using Divine Intervention:
Level 10: Divine Intervention
You can call on your deity or pantheon to intervene on your behalf. As a Magic action, choose any Cleric spell of level 5 or lower that doesn’t require a Reaction to cast. As part of the same action, you cast that spell without expending a spell slot or needing Material components. You can’t use this feature again until you finish a Long Rest.
So if it doesn’t use a casters spell slot, or require the material component, what exactly are you attempting to counterspell when a cleric uses Divine Intervention?
The spell slot doesn't matter for Counterspell, just:
Casting Time: Reaction, which you take when you see a creature within 60 feet of yourself casting a spell with Verbal, Somatic, or Material components
You're right about the Material component, but if the spell has V or S, you can use your Reaction.
[...] because the feature doesn’t allow casting Reaction timed spells, using divine intervention to cast a counterspell is no longer a viable option.
I agree.
Ok, so if you counterspell a divine intervention, would you say the feature is not used considering counterspell states:
On a failed save, the spell dissipates with no effect, and the action, Bonus Action, or Reaction used to cast it is wasted. If that spell was cast with a spell slot, the slot isn’t expended.
Would that not infer that countering Divine Intervention would only burn the action use but not the actual feature use?
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
This is sort of a vague area, but the RAW seems to be that the use of Divine Intervention is still expended, since the Counterspell rule only mentions spell slots.
This is sort of a vague area, but the RAW seems to be that the use of Divine Intervention is still expended, since the Counterspell rule only mentions spell slots.
True, which still begs the question of what happens if you counter a Level 20 Greater Divine Intervention? Do you still have to wait for the 2d4 long rest reset? Or how would that work?
I get that countering it would prevent it’s use for that turn considering they removed the percentage check, but in 2014 level 20 greater divine intervention was auto successful, and now it’s a possibility that it could be countered and the feature becomes totally useless.
I get they wanted the feature to not be dependent on luck, but i don’t think they realized a couterspell could toss a wrench into the mix and have the same potential luck factor come into play.
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" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
I get what you're saying, but I also feel like this is pretty theoretical and encountering enemies that can actually counterspell you is rare enough that it's not likely to be much of an issue in practice.
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pronouns: he/she/they
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As written, it takes an action. I recommend not actually following the rules as written, however, because letting people cast, say, hallow or planar binding while ignoring casting time and material components is pretty busted.
Or a gp cap- anything that nips Raise Dead would cover those too, and could still leave a free cast of stuff like Legend Lore or Greater Restoration so it's still giving decent utility without being broken.
I have to disagree there — this sort of outlandish, miraculous thing seems like exactly the point of asking literal divine intervention.
pronouns: he/she/they
The issue is exactly how much Divine Intervention should the players have on tap once a day? There's several Demon Princes with very mediocre CHA saves, so if you exhaust the LR's first you can have good odds of asking your deity nicely and binding a being like Baphomet or Orcus. That's a bit more "I win" than I'd like on tap like that.
Divine Intervention in 2024 is usable once per day with automatic success, it's not a "roll and get lucky" thing like it was in 2014.
I'm aware.
pronouns: he/she/they
LOL at the idea that a planar binding on Baphomet is a "win"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
It’s a watered down version of Wish without the wash.
You get a 5th level or lower free casting of a spell once per long rest. The time to cast is just 1 action, so a spell that normally takes some time longer than 6 seconds of 5th level or lower is cast in one action.
And unfortunately no Divine Counterspelling.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
There's no reason it can't be counterspelled.
pronouns: he/she/they
I meant you couldn’t use it to counterspell another person.
As for counter spelling it, i’d put that firmly in the DM hands as to how that might be decided.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
A DM can rule it differently, but RAW the spell is cast by the Cleric so Counterspell works against the the spell you cast using Divine Intervention:
But wish has a diferente description
"The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. If you use it this way, you don't need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect."
That description sau that you CAST as part of the same action, nowere say that CAST of the spell has any change
Wis has another description
"The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of level 8 or lower. If you use it this way, you don't need to meet any requirements to cast that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect."
If the intention was the same they would use the same description
Casting time isn't a "requirement".
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
So if it doesn’t use a casters spell slot, or require the material component, what exactly are you attempting to counterspell when a cleric uses Divine Intervention?
Like I said it’s a DM call if you can even Counterspell the feature, and because the feature doesn’t allow casting Reaction timed spells, using divine intervention to cast a counterspell is no longer a viable option.
As to casting time of any spell that is cast used by divine intervention, the feature states that casting time is the magic action that invokes the class feature and the spell chosen uses the same magic action to cast the spell, which reads as when you use divine intervention as the magic action the spell casted takes only a magic action to complete.
If you use a Wish spell to cast a spell that normally takes an hour to cast, would you have to concentrate for an hour for the wish to come true? Or would the spell work in the time given for the casting of the Wish spell?
Seems like a Level 10 class feature that gives the impression that you can for a magic action get a totally free casting of a 5th level or lower Cleric spell once a day feels like a watered down version of Wish, without the possibility of losing the ability or potential negative consequences.
It’s definitely changed from the previous version, and like most of the other rules is mainly left to DM discretion to figure out the details of how it plays out.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
The spell slot doesn't matter for Counterspell, just:
You're right about the Material component, but if the spell has V or S, you can use your Reaction.
I agree.
Ok, so if you counterspell a divine intervention, would you say the feature is not used considering counterspell states:
On a failed save, the spell dissipates with no effect, and the action, Bonus Action, or Reaction used to cast it is wasted. If that spell was cast with a spell slot, the slot isn’t expended.
Would that not infer that countering Divine Intervention would only burn the action use but not the actual feature use?
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
This is sort of a vague area, but the RAW seems to be that the use of Divine Intervention is still expended, since the Counterspell rule only mentions spell slots.
pronouns: he/she/they
True, which still begs the question of what happens if you counter a Level 20 Greater Divine Intervention? Do you still have to wait for the 2d4 long rest reset? Or how would that work?
I get that countering it would prevent it’s use for that turn considering they removed the percentage check, but in 2014 level 20 greater divine intervention was auto successful, and now it’s a possibility that it could be countered and the feature becomes totally useless.
I get they wanted the feature to not be dependent on luck, but i don’t think they realized a couterspell could toss a wrench into the mix and have the same potential luck factor come into play.
" Darkvision doesn’t work in Magical darkness, and if something is magical, Never Trust it acts the same way as a non-magical version of that same thing!”- Discotech Mage over a cup of joe.
I get what you're saying, but I also feel like this is pretty theoretical and encountering enemies that can actually counterspell you is rare enough that it's not likely to be much of an issue in practice.
pronouns: he/she/they