I'm a bit confused with the (2024) rules on suffocation, specifically with how certain creatures put you straight to the suffocating state.
For example, the Water Elemental's 'whelm' ability, if it works against the target, says:
"... Until the grapple ends, the target has the Restrained condition, is suffocating ..."
i.e. you are immediately suffocatING, emphasis on the "ING". But the link takes you to the condition of suffocatION, which talks about how many rounds you can hold your breath for before suffocation actually begins.
So...if a Water Elemental 'whelm's someone and they start suffocating, does that mean they immediately start taking exhaustion levels? Or would you rule they still have a chance to hold their breath and only start taking exhaustion levels after 1 + con mod rounds?
Hopefully I've explained what I meant clearly!
Strictly speaking, if the rules says a character is suffocating then I would say they start in the second sentence of the suffocation condition, i.e. "When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it gains 1 Exhaustion level at the end of each of its turns". But I'm worried that's a bit harsh. On the other hand, if you allow the target to still hold their breath when hit by a water elemental's 'whelm' ability (or similar) then its basically pointless because unless they used CON as a dump stat, every character is going to hold their breath for at least 2 rounds by which point the opponent is 99% likely to be dead anyway!
For reference, here's 2014 Water Elemental version of Whelm:
Whelm (Recharge 4–6). Each creature in the elemental's space must make a DC 15 Strength saving throw. On a failure, a target takes 13 (2d8 + 4) bludgeoning damage. If it is Large or smaller, it is also grappled (escape DC 14). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained and unable to breathe unless it can breathe water. If the saving throw is successful, the target is pushed out of the elemental's space.
A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 plus its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds) before suffocation begins.
As you said, this part is bypassed because the creature is already suffocating.
It would be worse than you think the other way, as that's for minutes, not rounds. Even if con is your dump stat, you get six rounds before you begin suffocating.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you are being disingenuous and rude, consider this your only response.
I hope its intended for it to immediately start gaining 1 Exhaustion level at the end of each of its turns, otherwise this is very unlikely to do anything as chances the target remain restrained long enought to run out of breath are small.
So may be now Whelm is meant to choke you out of breath.
A creature can hold its breath for a number of minutes equal to 1 plus its Constitution modifier (minimum of 30 seconds) before suffocation begins.
As you said, this part is bypassed because the creature is already suffocating.
It would be worse than you think the other way, as that's for minutes, not rounds. Even if con is your dump stat, you get six rounds before you begin suffocating.
Agree, a monster feature, that allows like 6+ turns of saving throws before having any effect seems wrong to me.
So, exhaustion / soffucation from turn 1 seems ok for me.
As "explanation", I would assume, that a water elemental can apply a lot of water pressure to the creature stuck inside it, forcing all air out of their lungs more or less immediately.
That would be a good explanation!. Also the Water Elemental description refers to drowning foes within them;
Water Elemental: ...Water elementals are as mutable as liquid, allowing them to crash into foes and seep through narrow cracks. They can crush foes with limb-like geysers, or they might flood over creatures, submerging and drowning foes within their whirling forms...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm a bit confused with the (2024) rules on suffocation, specifically with how certain creatures put you straight to the suffocating state.
For example, the Water Elemental's 'whelm' ability, if it works against the target, says:
"... Until the grapple ends, the target has the Restrained condition, is suffocating ..."
i.e. you are immediately suffocatING, emphasis on the "ING". But the link takes you to the condition of suffocatION, which talks about how many rounds you can hold your breath for before suffocation actually begins.
So...if a Water Elemental 'whelm's someone and they start suffocating, does that mean they immediately start taking exhaustion levels? Or would you rule they still have a chance to hold their breath and only start taking exhaustion levels after 1 + con mod rounds?
Hopefully I've explained what I meant clearly!
Strictly speaking, if the rules says a character is suffocating then I would say they start in the second sentence of the suffocation condition, i.e. "When a creature runs out of breath or is choking, it gains 1 Exhaustion level at the end of each of its turns". But I'm worried that's a bit harsh. On the other hand, if you allow the target to still hold their breath when hit by a water elemental's 'whelm' ability (or similar) then its basically pointless because unless they used CON as a dump stat, every character is going to hold their breath for at least 2 rounds by which point the opponent is 99% likely to be dead anyway!
I interpret Whelm target
cancan't hold its breath before Suffocation begins.EDIT To strikethrough
For reference, here's 2014 Water Elemental version of Whelm:
As you said, this part is bypassed because the creature is already suffocating.
It would be worse than you think the other way, as that's for minutes, not rounds. Even if con is your dump stat, you get six rounds before you begin suffocating.
If you are being disingenuous and rude, consider this your only response.
Homebrew: dominance, The Necrotic
Extended signature
I hope its intended for it to immediately start gaining 1 Exhaustion level at the end of each of its turns, otherwise this is very unlikely to do anything as chances the target remain restrained long enought to run out of breath are small.
So may be now Whelm is meant to choke you out of breath.
Mmm. After reading the latest posts, I think that's the idea too.
EDIT: for clarity.
Oops. Yes. Minutes!
Agree, a monster feature, that allows like 6+ turns of saving throws before having any effect seems wrong to me.
So, exhaustion / soffucation from turn 1 seems ok for me.
As "explanation", I would assume, that a water elemental can apply a lot of water pressure to the creature stuck inside it, forcing all air out of their lungs more or less immediately.
That would be a good explanation!. Also the Water Elemental description refers to drowning foes within them;