Hi all. We are enjoying a little one shot with the Gunslingers from Critical Role but the mechanic of "Recoil" has come up with a player complaining because he wants to use the Magnum with the Sharpshooter Feat. Some other players are additionally saying that if you switch to a second weapon that you would be able to make an attack with that other weapon, ignoring Recoil, because Recoil only applies to the weapon you made the first attack with.
Recoil*
After you make an attack with this weapon, you can’t make ranged attacks beyond the weapon’s normal range until the end of the current turn.
My argument is that Recoil applies to all attacks based on the last weapon you made an attack with using the Recoil property. Sharpshooter wouldn't be able to get around this because it only removes disadvantage caused by long range. And it doesn't make sense that hot swapping or dual wielding would let you ignore the Recoil Property. Recoil states "You can't make ranged attacks beyond the weapon's normal range until the end of the current turn," not "you can't make ranged attacks with this weapon beyond the weapon's normal range..."
What do we think and what is the reasoning for it?
As written, I would say it applies to all ranged attacks with weapons. This is because it says "beyond the weapon's normal range", i.e., beyond the range of the weapon you are trying to make the attack with. It could be worded better, but I'm pretty sure that's what the intent is. If it were intended to apply only to the current weapon, it would say "this weapon" instead of "the weapon".
Is Recoil a weapon property of Magnum? The way i read it, beyond the weapon’s normal range refers to this weapon as previously mention, which is the Magnum.
1 -- for full clarity, the Magnum, and the Recoil property, are not associated with CR's version of the Gunslinger fighter subclass. They're from Valda's Gunslinger class
2 -- the wording on Recoil is
Recoil*
After you make an attack with this weapon, you can’t make ranged attacks beyond the weapon’s normal range until the end of the current turn.
My ruling as a DM is that if you make an attack with Recoil, even if you switch to a different weapon for another attack, you would still be limited to the normal range of the first weapon (30 feet for the Magnum), regardless of the range of the second weapon
Recoil is a limitation placed on the firer of the weapon; swapping weapons doesn't erase that limitation
If that seems confusing, think of it like a minor curse or something. Changing weapons mid-turn wouldn't negate the curse
Curse
After you make an attack with this weapon, you can't do X until the end of the current turn
EDIT: also, if swapping weapons wiped the board clean on weapon properties, there are a whole lot of weapon mastery combos that suddenly don't work...
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I can see both arguments. Which really only matters if you are using a second firearm. Otherwise you just attack with the weapon without recoil first, then the weapon with recoil.
as someone else mentioned this is not Critical Role’s version of guns. Given its third party, I think it is a poorly written game mechanic. In general the rules don’t force you to use weapons in a specific order or face a penalty.
I think the first question should be does all the firearms in the book use this mechanic? Are you going to allow firearms from critical role and the phb?
If using other firearms you may want to just ignore the recoil mechanic completely. Otherwise it only makes sense to enforce the recoil mechanic to affect all weapons used that turn/round.
1 -- for full clarity, the Magnum, and the Recoil property, are not associated with CR's version of the Gunslinger fighter subclass. They're from Valda's Gunslinger class
2 -- the wording on Recoil is
Recoil*
After you make an attack with this weapon, you can’t make ranged attacks beyond the weapon’s normal range until the end of the current turn.
My ruling as a DM is that if you make an attack with Recoil, even if you switch to a different weapon for another attack, you would still be limited to the normal range of the first weapon (30 feet for the Magnum), regardless of the range of the second weapon
Recoil is a limitation placed on the firer of the weapon; swapping weapons doesn't erase that limitation
If that seems confusing, think of it like a minor curse or something. Changing weapons mid-turn wouldn't negate the curse
Curse
After you make an attack with this weapon, you can't do X until the end of the current turn
EDIT: also, if swapping weapons wiped the board clean on weapon properties, there are a whole lot of weapon mastery combos that suddenly don't work...
The thing that is missing is that with the curse and with recoil you just use it last and do whatever x is/ use the weapon without recoil first.
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Hi all. We are enjoying a little one shot with the Gunslingers from Critical Role but the mechanic of "Recoil" has come up with a player complaining because he wants to use the Magnum with the Sharpshooter Feat. Some other players are additionally saying that if you switch to a second weapon that you would be able to make an attack with that other weapon, ignoring Recoil, because Recoil only applies to the weapon you made the first attack with.
Recoil*
After you make an attack with this weapon, you can’t make ranged attacks beyond the weapon’s normal range until the end of the current turn.
My argument is that Recoil applies to all attacks based on the last weapon you made an attack with using the Recoil property. Sharpshooter wouldn't be able to get around this because it only removes disadvantage caused by long range. And it doesn't make sense that hot swapping or dual wielding would let you ignore the Recoil Property. Recoil states "You can't make ranged attacks beyond the weapon's normal range until the end of the current turn," not "you can't make ranged attacks with this weapon beyond the weapon's normal range..."
What do we think and what is the reasoning for it?
As written, I would say it applies to all ranged attacks with weapons. This is because it says "beyond the weapon's normal range", i.e., beyond the range of the weapon you are trying to make the attack with. It could be worded better, but I'm pretty sure that's what the intent is. If it were intended to apply only to the current weapon, it would say "this weapon" instead of "the weapon".
pronouns: he/she/they
Is Recoil a weapon property of Magnum? The way i read it, beyond the weapon’s normal range refers to this weapon as previously mention, which is the Magnum.
If so, i voted Recoil does not apply if you use a different weapon than the one that made the attack
I interpreted it that way too, because of what you said in post #3.
Couple things here:
1 -- for full clarity, the Magnum, and the Recoil property, are not associated with CR's version of the Gunslinger fighter subclass. They're from Valda's Gunslinger class
2 -- the wording on Recoil is
My ruling as a DM is that if you make an attack with Recoil, even if you switch to a different weapon for another attack, you would still be limited to the normal range of the first weapon (30 feet for the Magnum), regardless of the range of the second weapon
Recoil is a limitation placed on the firer of the weapon; swapping weapons doesn't erase that limitation
If that seems confusing, think of it like a minor curse or something. Changing weapons mid-turn wouldn't negate the curse
EDIT: also, if swapping weapons wiped the board clean on weapon properties, there are a whole lot of weapon mastery combos that suddenly don't work...
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Was not confusing to me. The rest of my party however….
I can see both arguments. Which really only matters if you are using a second firearm. Otherwise you just attack with the weapon without recoil first, then the weapon with recoil.
as someone else mentioned this is not Critical Role’s version of guns. Given its third party, I think it is a poorly written game mechanic. In general the rules don’t force you to use weapons in a specific order or face a penalty.
I think the first question should be does all the firearms in the book use this mechanic? Are you going to allow firearms from critical role and the phb?
If using other firearms you may want to just ignore the recoil mechanic completely. Otherwise it only makes sense to enforce the recoil mechanic to affect all weapons used that turn/round.
The thing that is missing is that with the curse and with recoil you just use it last and do whatever x is/ use the weapon without recoil first.