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It's in the Player's Handbook Rules Glossary definition of Saving Throws here.
The reason for this part of the rule is that some spells and other effects target objects as well as creatures. This establishes that objects without ability scores automatically fail such saving throws, but leaves open the possibility that some future rule might allow for an object to have one or more ability scores.
Is it obvious to you,as a nativeEnglishspeaker,thattheruleisabout a target-object? In general, it seemed to methat the objects do notpass the saving throws.
Is it obvious to you,as a nativeEnglishspeaker,thattheruleisabout a target-object? In general, it seemed to methat the objects do notpass the saving throws.
The rule itself is more general than that - it leaves open the possibility that there might also be creatures that don’t have all six ability scores - but this is the rule that establishes that objects fail saving throws.
Damage Types and Objects. Objects have Immunity to Poison and Psychic damage. The DM might decide that some damage types are more or less effective against an object. For example, Bludgeoning damage works well for smashing things but not for cutting. Paper or cloth objects might have Vulnerability to Fire damage.
[...]
No Ability Scores. An object lacks ability scores unless a rule assigns scores to the object. Without ability scores, an object can’t make ability checks, and it fails all saving throws.
Just for comparison, from the 2014 PHB:
Characters can also damage objects with their weapons and spells. Objects are immune to poison and psychic damage, but otherwise they can be affected by physical and magical attacks much like creatures can. The DM determines an object's Armor Class and hit points, and might decide that certain objects have resistance or immunity to certain kinds of attacks. (It's hard to cut a rope with a club, for example.) Objects always fail Strength and Dexterity saving throws, and they are immune to effects that require other saves.
Yeah, the practical difference between the 2014 and 2024 rules is that the 2024 rules account for objects that have one or more ability scores, or creatures that don't have all six ability scores. As far as I know, neither of these things exist in any currently available official material, but the designers seemed to want to allow for the possibility that they might exist at some point in the future.
Yeah, the practical difference between the 2014 and 2024 rules is that the 2024 rules account for objects that have one or more ability scores, or creatures that don't have all six ability scores. As far as I know, neither of these things exist in any currently available official material, but the designers seemed to want to allow for the possibility that they might exist at some point in the future.
Intelligent weapons have a charisma score, though I doubt any spells with a charisma save allow objects.
And yeah, it's an easy change so there's an answer for any weird cases that come up in future.
It'd be bending the rules a bit, but I'd be inclined to treat a sentient weapon as a creature for the purposes of spell targeting, especially spells with mental saves.
It'd be bending the rules a bit, but I'd be inclined to treat a sentient weapon as a creature for the purposes of spell targeting, especially spells with mental saves.
I'd say the rules could support that:
Sentient Magic Item Traits
When you make a sentient magic item, you create the item’s persona much as you would create an NPC (as described in the “Nonplayer Characters” section of chapter 3), with these exceptions.
Abilities. A sentient magic item has Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores. Choose the item’s abilities, or determine them randomly as follows: roll 4d6 for each one, dropping the lowest roll and totaling the rest.
Yeah, the practical difference between the 2014 and 2024 rules is that the 2024 rules account for objects that have one or more ability scores, or creatures that don't have all six ability scores. As far as I know, neither of these things exist in any currently available official material, but the designers seemed to want to allow for the possibility that they might exist at some point in the future.
Some vehicles don’t have all 6 ability scores. Like the boats in ghosts of saltmarsh have str, dex and con, but no int, wis or cha. Of course they also have a big pile of condition immunities. So even though it has no wisdom score and would auto-fail the save, you still can’t charm the boat, for example.
But I think you’re 100% right that the phrase in question is mostly about future-proofing.
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The rules about saves say: "target lacks the ability score used by [save]". Creatures perform the saves. How can creatures have no abilities?
Can you quote that? I couldn't find anything like that.
It's in the Player's Handbook Rules Glossary definition of Saving Throws here.
The reason for this part of the rule is that some spells and other effects target objects as well as creatures. This establishes that objects without ability scores automatically fail such saving throws, but leaves open the possibility that some future rule might allow for an object to have one or more ability scores.
pronouns: he/she/they
Is it obvious to you, as a native English speaker, that the rule is about a target-object? In general, it seemed to me that the objects do not pass the saving throws.
The rule itself is more general than that - it leaves open the possibility that there might also be creatures that don’t have all six ability scores - but this is the rule that establishes that objects fail saving throws.
pronouns: he/she/they
Additionally, under the Breaking Objects rules:
Just for comparison, from the 2014 PHB:
Yeah, the practical difference between the 2014 and 2024 rules is that the 2024 rules account for objects that have one or more ability scores, or creatures that don't have all six ability scores. As far as I know, neither of these things exist in any currently available official material, but the designers seemed to want to allow for the possibility that they might exist at some point in the future.
pronouns: he/she/they
Intelligent weapons have a charisma score, though I doubt any spells with a charisma save allow objects.
And yeah, it's an easy change so there's an answer for any weird cases that come up in future.
It'd be bending the rules a bit, but I'd be inclined to treat a sentient weapon as a creature for the purposes of spell targeting, especially spells with mental saves.
pronouns: he/she/they
I'd say the rules could support that:
Some vehicles don’t have all 6 ability scores. Like the boats in ghosts of saltmarsh have str, dex and con, but no int, wis or cha. Of course they also have a big pile of condition immunities. So even though it has no wisdom score and would auto-fail the save, you still can’t charm the boat, for example.
But I think you’re 100% right that the phrase in question is mostly about future-proofing.