In a one shot I worked out with the DM to you can spend 10ft of movement to clear space under a creature, and if you successfully grapple, you can use your movement to move out of the space and drag the enemy down to their chest. Effectively giving them restrained if you hold the grapple, or is just considered prone if you let go or they escape. We also tossed around the idea of giving the burrower partial cover while underground based on weapon type; none for piercing, half for slashing, and 3/4 for bludgeoning. We only ended up using this like 3 times in total, because we put more thought into what materials I could burrow through since we spent a lot of time in a city setting when I got delver's claws.
I know its house rule, but its something to work with at least.
The sage advice as pointed out above says no you can't without tunneler as a trait.
I wish in 2024 they would of you know been express in the rules about it. They had a sage advice about it, clarify it. And they could have gone different ways, when burrowing it makes the ground soft if you are pulled under ground consider the tunneled path difficult terrain for the next 1d6 rounds. After 1d6 rounds the ground settles and would require them to dig their way out. Or a burrower can only pull someone half their height under ground giving them 1.2 cover and the restrained condition DC 15 to escape. Or put size limits on it, you can only drag others underground with your burrow if they are 2 sizes smaller than you. Don't get me wrong given the potential lethality even against high level PCs of it compared to other movement forms I think they would need to have some out for the victim, but tunnels just makes it lame and pointless. It is like they work shopped the best way to take all the cool out of it.
It's because 5E isn't supposed to have all the easy "no saving throw" ways of killing player characters that previous editions did. Getting yoinked underground and left to suffocate because the party lacks any means of excavating you is not fun.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The sage advice as pointed out above says no you can't without tunneler as a trait.
I wish in 2024 they would of you know been express in the rules about it. [...]
I agree, but it's also true that the wording for monsters with the Tunneler trait, at least in the 2024 MM, is always the same, so the tunnel left behind is easy to walk through (but not funny too).
- Ankheg: Tunneler. The ankheg can burrow through solid rock at half its Burrow Speed and leaves a 10-foot-diameter tunnel in its wake.
- Purple Worm: Tunneler. The worm can burrow through solid rock at half its Burrow Speed and leaves a 10-foot-diameter tunnel in its wake.
- Umber Hulk: Tunneler. The umber hulk can burrow through solid rock at half its Burrow Speed and leaves a 10-foot-diameter tunnel in its wake.
It's because 5E isn't supposed to have all the easy "no saving throw" ways of killing player characters that previous editions did. Getting yoinked underground and left to suffocate because the party lacks any means of excavating you is not fun.
I agree with the reason, I disagree about what is fun. But again they could have come up with better ways to mitigate it other than tunnels so its not a threat at all. They turned what should be the most threatening alternate movement form into the least and virtually non threatening alternate movement form. Flight they can drop you for high damage, damage that will kill you at certain levels, swimming they can drag you into the depths, tunneling oh no, you might have to climb out.
The sage advice as pointed out above says no you can't without tunneler as a trait.
I wish in 2024 they would of you know been express in the rules about it. [...]
I agree, but it's also true that the wording for monsters with the Tunneler trait, at least in the 2024 MM, is always the same, so the tunnel left behind is easy to walk through (but not funny too).
- Ankheg: Tunneler. The ankheg can burrow through solid rock at half its Burrow Speed and leaves a 10-foot-diameter tunnel in its wake.
- Purple Worm: Tunneler. The worm can burrow through solid rock at half its Burrow Speed and leaves a 10-foot-diameter tunnel in its wake.
- Umber Hulk: Tunneler. The umber hulk can burrow through solid rock at half its Burrow Speed and leaves a 10-foot-diameter tunnel in its wake.
Not all of the pre 2025 MM leave a 10-foot diameter tunnel. An Adult Emerald Dragon leaves a 15-foot tunnel and an Ancient one leaves a 20 foot tunnel.
The Purple Worm is probably the nastiest of the tunnellers. Tremorsense 60 ft plus 50 Burrow Speed could create a nasty pit suddenly beneath a character or two.
Interestingly, Tunneller states that you tunnel and half your Speed, not Movement, so the Dash action doesn't help the Tunnelling rate.
Interestingly, Tunneller states that you tunnel and half your Speed, not Movement, so the Dash action doesn't help the Tunnelling rate.
Where are you reading that? All the creatures I have looked at says that they tunnel through rock at half their burrow speed (just as the ones Tarod linked too). Nothing in that text would stop them from benefitting from a dash (either through rock or through earth).
It's because 5E isn't supposed to have all the easy "no saving throw" ways of killing player characters that previous editions did. Getting yoinked underground and left to suffocate because the party lacks any means of excavating you is not fun.
I agree with the reason, I disagree about what is fun. But again they could have come up with better ways to mitigate it other than tunnels so its not a threat at all. They turned what should be the most threatening alternate movement form into the least and virtually non threatening alternate movement form. Flight they can drop you for high damage, damage that will kill you at certain levels, swimming they can drag you into the depths, tunneling oh no, you might have to climb out.
Falling damage can be mitigated with a first level spell or a cheap magic item that produces the effects of that spell. Drowning you at least have the chance to reach the surface again. Being buried alive? Only pretty high level magic can save you at that point.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Interestingly, Tunneller states that you tunnel and half your Speed, not Movement, so the Dash action doesn't help the Tunnelling rate.
Where are you reading that? All the creatures I have looked at says that they tunnel through rock at half their burrow speed (just as the ones Tarod linked too). Nothing in that text would stop them from benefitting from a dash (either through rock or through earth).
I think this is one of the relevant rules in this case:
Dash [Action]
When you take the Dash action, you gain extra movement for the current turn. The increase equals your Speed after applying any modifiers. With a Speed of 30 feet, for example, you can move up to 60 feet on your turn if you Dash. If your Speed of 30 feet is reduced to 15 feet, you can move up to 30 feet this turn if you Dash.
If you have a special speed, such as a Fly Speed or Swim Speed, you can use that speed instead of your Speed when you take this action. You choose which speed to use each time you take it. See also “Speed.”
Interestingly, Tunneller states that you tunnel and half your Speed, not Movement, so the Dash action doesn't help the Tunnelling rate.
Where are you reading that? All the creatures I have looked at says that they tunnel through rock at half their burrow speed (just as the ones Tarod linked too). Nothing in that text would stop them from benefitting from a dash (either through rock or through earth).
TarodNet quoted the Dash rule. Tunneller lets you create tunnels with a length equal to half your speed. Dash gives you increased movement equal to your Speed but does not increase your Speed itself. So, it helps you burrow further in a turn but not tunnel further.
This was also the basis of some mistakes in the Fastest Character thread where a character would Dash multiple times in a turn. Some posters assumed that Dashing three times in a turn would mean x8 speed, but in actuality, Dashing three times added extra movement equal to three times your movement (effectively x4 Speed).
The same principle applies here. Dashing doesn't change your Speed and Tunneller is based on your Speed, not your Movement. When you Tunnel, it's not explicit what happens to your movement. My assumption is that you burrow at half rate to form the Tunnel and have no movement remaining or, if you Dashed (once), you have your full Burrow Speed to move normally afterwards.
On a tangential note: What happens if a Purple Worm swallows a character and then burrows straight down (50 feet burrow speed) and then the character successfully deals 30 damage to the worm and the worm fails its save? 5 feet within the worm is going to still be underground. Do they geyser up like a slobbery old faithful?
Interestingly, Tunneller states that you tunnel and half your Speed, not Movement, so the Dash action doesn't help the Tunnelling rate.
Where are you reading that? All the creatures I have looked at says that they tunnel through rock at half their burrow speed (just as the ones Tarod linked too). Nothing in that text would stop them from benefitting from a dash (either through rock or through earth).
TarodNet quoted the Dash rule. Tunneller lets you create tunnels with a length equal to half your speed. Dash gives you increased movement equal to your Speed but does not increase your Speed itself. So, it helps you burrow further in a turn but not tunnel further.
Given that it's the only movement ability (AFAIK) to be phrased like that, there's a solid case to be made that it's an error.
Actually, "can burrow through solid rock at half its speed" is, structurally, not a movement ability if we're talking straight text of the rules. It's a separate ability independent of normal movement, like the Barbarian's Instinctive Pounce.
This is, obviously, not what was intended. (For one thing, it gives no indication of how often it can be used.) It's obviously supposed to be a movement ability, in which case it interacts normally with dashing.
On a tangential note: What happens if a Purple Worm swallows a character and then burrows straight down (50 feet burrow speed) and then the character successfully deals 30 damage to the worm and the worm fails its save? 5 feet within the worm is going to still be underground. Do they geyser up like a slobbery old faithful?
If any portion of the worm is still above ground, they can appear there.
But yeah, either you get a PC geyser or you have to rule that the burrowing has left enough tunnel for the PCs to get out. Maybe the worm has to surface to puke the characters out. (Its head pops out of the ground, barfs up the PCs, says "excuse me", and embarrassedly retreats to its previous location.)
You have a similar problem if the worm kicks it while underground. They clearly didn't think about purple worms burrowing after swallowing. (Which they're unlikely to do in a normal encounter.)
It's because 5E isn't supposed to have all the easy "no saving throw" ways of killing player characters that previous editions did. Getting yoinked underground and left to suffocate because the party lacks any means of excavating you is not fun.
I agree with the reason, I disagree about what is fun. But again they could have come up with better ways to mitigate it other than tunnels so its not a threat at all. They turned what should be the most threatening alternate movement form into the least and virtually non threatening alternate movement form. Flight they can drop you for high damage, damage that will kill you at certain levels, swimming they can drag you into the depths, tunneling oh no, you might have to climb out.
Falling damage can be mitigated with a first level spell or a cheap magic item that produces the effects of that spell. Drowning you at least have the chance to reach the surface again. Being buried alive? Only pretty high level magic can save you at that point.
Seems like the mold earth cantrip could probably get someone out, if they weren’t dragged too far down. And you can hold your breath for at least 5 rounds, so there’s some time. Of course that assumes you have it prepared, but then so does the falling solution you present. And feather fall requires the target to be within 60’, it’s pretty easy to imagine the rogue getting picked up and quickly being out of range.
I do generally agree with you about why dragging someone underground would be not fun, and I’m glad it’s not an option. But the solution isn’t all that hard to come by.
It's because 5E isn't supposed to have all the easy "no saving throw" ways of killing player characters that previous editions did. Getting yoinked underground and left to suffocate because the party lacks any means of excavating you is not fun.
I agree with the reason, I disagree about what is fun. But again they could have come up with better ways to mitigate it other than tunnels so its not a threat at all. They turned what should be the most threatening alternate movement form into the least and virtually non threatening alternate movement form. Flight they can drop you for high damage, damage that will kill you at certain levels, swimming they can drag you into the depths, tunneling oh no, you might have to climb out.
Falling damage can be mitigated with a first level spell or a cheap magic item that produces the effects of that spell. Drowning you at least have the chance to reach the surface again. Being buried alive? Only pretty high level magic can save you at that point.
As I said there could be better ways to mitigate the threat than basically a no. As i said earlier say something like the path they burrow in is considered difficult terrain for x rounds until the ground settles again. Maybe add some way for people to make makeshift tunnels out of the path for a limited time. That way it would correlate pretty closely to water, if they pull you under for one round you are probably fine, if they pull you under and keep going deeper with you never breaking free for 10 rounds, maybe not so fine. Though 5e has ridiculous hold breath lengths so maybe longer than 10 rounds.
Interestingly, Tunneller states that you tunnel and half your Speed, not Movement, so the Dash action doesn't help the Tunnelling rate.
Where are you reading that? All the creatures I have looked at says that they tunnel through rock at half their burrow speed (just as the ones Tarod linked too). Nothing in that text would stop them from benefitting from a dash (either through rock or through earth).
TarodNet quoted the Dash rule. Tunneller lets you create tunnels with a length equal to half your speed. Dash gives you increased movement equal to your Speed but does not increase your Speed itself. So, it helps you burrow further in a turn but not tunnel further.
Given that it's the only movement ability (AFAIK) to be phrased like that, there's a solid case to be made that it's an error.
Actually, "can burrow through solid rock at half its speed" is, structurally, not a movement ability if we're talking straight text of the rules. It's a separate ability independent of normal movement, like the Barbarian's Instinctive Pounce.
This is, obviously, not what was intended. (For one thing, it gives no indication of how often it can be used.) It's obviously supposed to be a movement ability, in which case it interacts normally with dashing.
It would have been a simple enough change to say: "The [creature] can burrow 1 foot through solid rock for every 2 feet of Burrow movement and leaves a [size]-foot-diameter tunnel in its wake." It takes up slightly more space, though.
Regardless, of RAI, RAW is that Tunneller is restricted to Speed. No rush jobs here (and wear your PPE).
Mechanically speaking, what are the poor PC's options?
Mechanically speaking the creature cannot do that unless it also has the Tunneler trait. And if so then the PC can just walk out of the tunnel.
SAC entry for reference.
In a one shot I worked out with the DM to you can spend 10ft of movement to clear space under a creature, and if you successfully grapple, you can use your movement to move out of the space and drag the enemy down to their chest. Effectively giving them restrained if you hold the grapple, or is just considered prone if you let go or they escape. We also tossed around the idea of giving the burrower partial cover while underground based on weapon type; none for piercing, half for slashing, and 3/4 for bludgeoning. We only ended up using this like 3 times in total, because we put more thought into what materials I could burrow through since we spent a lot of time in a city setting when I got delver's claws.
I know its house rule, but its something to work with at least.
There are a couple of interesting related threads, in case they are useful for your Natrel or anyone coming here:
- Elemental Grappling
- Burrowing Monsters beneath the Sand - Three-Quarters Cover or Total Cover Plausible?
The sage advice as pointed out above says no you can't without tunneler as a trait.
I wish in 2024 they would of you know been express in the rules about it. They had a sage advice about it, clarify it. And they could have gone different ways, when burrowing it makes the ground soft if you are pulled under ground consider the tunneled path difficult terrain for the next 1d6 rounds. After 1d6 rounds the ground settles and would require them to dig their way out. Or a burrower can only pull someone half their height under ground giving them 1.2 cover and the restrained condition DC 15 to escape. Or put size limits on it, you can only drag others underground with your burrow if they are 2 sizes smaller than you. Don't get me wrong given the potential lethality even against high level PCs of it compared to other movement forms I think they would need to have some out for the victim, but tunnels just makes it lame and pointless. It is like they work shopped the best way to take all the cool out of it.
It's because 5E isn't supposed to have all the easy "no saving throw" ways of killing player characters that previous editions did. Getting yoinked underground and left to suffocate because the party lacks any means of excavating you is not fun.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I agree, but it's also true that the wording for monsters with the Tunneler trait, at least in the 2024 MM, is always the same, so the tunnel left behind is easy to walk through (but not funny too).
- Ankheg: Tunneler. The ankheg can burrow through solid rock at half its Burrow Speed and leaves a 10-foot-diameter tunnel in its wake.
- Purple Worm: Tunneler. The worm can burrow through solid rock at half its Burrow Speed and leaves a 10-foot-diameter tunnel in its wake.
- Umber Hulk: Tunneler. The umber hulk can burrow through solid rock at half its Burrow Speed and leaves a 10-foot-diameter tunnel in its wake.
Depending of the tunnel inclinaition, i.e vertical, you may have to climb out.
I agree with the reason, I disagree about what is fun. But again they could have come up with better ways to mitigate it other than tunnels so its not a threat at all. They turned what should be the most threatening alternate movement form into the least and virtually non threatening alternate movement form. Flight they can drop you for high damage, damage that will kill you at certain levels, swimming they can drag you into the depths, tunneling oh no, you might have to climb out.
Not all of the pre 2025 MM leave a 10-foot diameter tunnel. An Adult Emerald Dragon leaves a 15-foot tunnel and an Ancient one leaves a 20 foot tunnel.
The Purple Worm is probably the nastiest of the tunnellers. Tremorsense 60 ft plus 50 Burrow Speed could create a nasty pit suddenly beneath a character or two.
Interestingly, Tunneller states that you tunnel and half your Speed, not Movement, so the Dash action doesn't help the Tunnelling rate.
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Where are you reading that?
All the creatures I have looked at says that they tunnel through rock at half their burrow speed (just as the ones Tarod linked too). Nothing in that text would stop them from benefitting from a dash (either through rock or through earth).
I agree. For example;
Falling damage can be mitigated with a first level spell or a cheap magic item that produces the effects of that spell. Drowning you at least have the chance to reach the surface again. Being buried alive? Only pretty high level magic can save you at that point.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I think this is one of the relevant rules in this case:
Sounds like the DM is trying to no-roll-kill a player?
I think RAW, the player would be down a hole, but take no damage getting there.
TarodNet quoted the Dash rule. Tunneller lets you create tunnels with a length equal to half your speed. Dash gives you increased movement equal to your Speed but does not increase your Speed itself. So, it helps you burrow further in a turn but not tunnel further.
This was also the basis of some mistakes in the Fastest Character thread where a character would Dash multiple times in a turn. Some posters assumed that Dashing three times in a turn would mean x8 speed, but in actuality, Dashing three times added extra movement equal to three times your movement (effectively x4 Speed).
The same principle applies here. Dashing doesn't change your Speed and Tunneller is based on your Speed, not your Movement. When you Tunnel, it's not explicit what happens to your movement. My assumption is that you burrow at half rate to form the Tunnel and have no movement remaining or, if you Dashed (once), you have your full Burrow Speed to move normally afterwards.
On a tangential note: What happens if a Purple Worm swallows a character and then burrows straight down (50 feet burrow speed) and then the character successfully deals 30 damage to the worm and the worm fails its save? 5 feet within the worm is going to still be underground. Do they geyser up like a slobbery old faithful?
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.
Given that it's the only movement ability (AFAIK) to be phrased like that, there's a solid case to be made that it's an error.
Actually, "can burrow through solid rock at half its speed" is, structurally, not a movement ability if we're talking straight text of the rules. It's a separate ability independent of normal movement, like the Barbarian's Instinctive Pounce.
This is, obviously, not what was intended. (For one thing, it gives no indication of how often it can be used.) It's obviously supposed to be a movement ability, in which case it interacts normally with dashing.
If any portion of the worm is still above ground, they can appear there.
But yeah, either you get a PC geyser or you have to rule that the burrowing has left enough tunnel for the PCs to get out. Maybe the worm has to surface to puke the characters out. (Its head pops out of the ground, barfs up the PCs, says "excuse me", and embarrassedly retreats to its previous location.)
You have a similar problem if the worm kicks it while underground. They clearly didn't think about purple worms burrowing after swallowing. (Which they're unlikely to do in a normal encounter.)
Seems like the mold earth cantrip could probably get someone out, if they weren’t dragged too far down. And you can hold your breath for at least 5 rounds, so there’s some time.
Of course that assumes you have it prepared, but then so does the falling solution you present. And feather fall requires the target to be within 60’, it’s pretty easy to imagine the rogue getting picked up and quickly being out of range.
I do generally agree with you about why dragging someone underground would be not fun, and I’m glad it’s not an option. But the solution isn’t all that hard to come by.
As I said there could be better ways to mitigate the threat than basically a no. As i said earlier say something like the path they burrow in is considered difficult terrain for x rounds until the ground settles again. Maybe add some way for people to make makeshift tunnels out of the path for a limited time. That way it would correlate pretty closely to water, if they pull you under for one round you are probably fine, if they pull you under and keep going deeper with you never breaking free for 10 rounds, maybe not so fine. Though 5e has ridiculous hold breath lengths so maybe longer than 10 rounds.
It would have been a simple enough change to say: "The [creature] can burrow 1 foot through solid rock for every 2 feet of Burrow movement and leaves a [size]-foot-diameter tunnel in its wake." It takes up slightly more space, though.
Regardless, of RAI, RAW is that Tunneller is restricted to Speed. No rush jobs here (and wear your PPE).
How to add Tooltips.
My houserulings.